I dont remember where, but I read that there was a study that concluded no chemicals at toxic levels are produced by ecigs long term. (flavors excluded)
Some users think vaping is mainly water vapor: totaly false !
- Thread starter VIVAP2
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
In most cases, one would feel ill effects before long-tem harm occurred (maybe not all; but i's hard to think of a mechanism). Some people might develop an inyolerance to the glycols in time and need to cut back or even stop vaping.
The detriments of smoke were accumulation (of heavy metals, including radioactive polonium from the fertiliser) and many other toxins that in part acted as free-redicals, overloading the repair systems.
With vaping, filler 'burning' (plus dry deposits ashing) are of note, but as we are talking x1000 lower levels, more a footnote; not that we should not both guard against their occurence and promote improved hardware designs. The bigger worry is with certain flavorings and colorings, some of which we can call-out, some being uncertain.
In short, I currently see the prospects for long-term harm as low; but a few people may have to give it up.
The detriments of smoke were accumulation (of heavy metals, including radioactive polonium from the fertiliser) and many other toxins that in part acted as free-redicals, overloading the repair systems.
With vaping, filler 'burning' (plus dry deposits ashing) are of note, but as we are talking x1000 lower levels, more a footnote; not that we should not both guard against their occurence and promote improved hardware designs. The bigger worry is with certain flavorings and colorings, some of which we can call-out, some being uncertain.
In short, I currently see the prospects for long-term harm as low; but a few people may have to give it up.
Worth noting the distinction between toxic and irritant. Most things are irritants to the body; though it depends in the end on the dose - and that will vary by individual.
As far as an irritant, I've seen people say vaping has caused everything from backaches, to gas to florescent urine. Even as an irritant you have to take some things with a grain of salt. Sometimes a pain in your elbow is just a pain in your elbow.
Surely? Truly? Those are gratuitous assertions with no basis in fact. Why don't we just post our opinions and questions without pontificating?
I really don't see how that was my opinion and not fact. You can't possibly deny that different flavors pose different long term risks, can you? Not if you know the first thing about the flavors used in e-liquids, anyway. Or maybe that sentence was just too hard for you to understand? I basically said the same thing that kinabaloo said.
And on top of that, unless you want to thoroughly analyze the composition and safety level of every flavor you use, the only way you'll know that what you're doing doesn't carry any long term risks is if you vape unflavored DIY.
And on top of that, unless you want to thoroughly analyze the composition and safety level of every flavor you use, the only way you'll know that what you're doing doesn't carry any long term risks is if you vape unflavored DIY.
Last edited:
I'll ignore the ad hominem attack. Kinabaloo did not say that "some flavors might very well be as dangerous as cigarettes". Go back and read the post again. And you are assuming that vaping unflavored DIY is safe.
So, you're denying the possibility that certain flavors may be very dangerous? And you'd whole-heartedly recommend that we go out and buy vanilla extract, the baking kind, to add to our juices?
Indeed
90% of the chemicals in shampoos, skin creams, etc are listed as skin irritants (in MSDSs). A lot is down to the dose (and individual variation).
To put it another way, nothing is completely safe.
Cut an apple in half and it goes brown fast. That's oxidation. Aging and death are in large part due to oxidation. So even the very thing that gives us life takes it away in the end. We can only reduce risks and slow the inevitable.
Last edited:
I'll quote you for the last time. I didn't deny that some flavors may be very dangerous. But my OPINION is that they"re not as dangerous as cigarettes. Not surely, not truly, just my opinion.
Yeah, and in my opinion meat is EVIL, but that doesn't really make it evil, does it?
Very rusty on the vanilla issue but it was a hot debate at one time. I wasn't convinced it was harmful at last look, but that was at least 2 years ago. The less-disputed ones are di-acetyl flavorings and the 'bright red color' (i forget what exactly).
Diacetyls appear to be a major concern. And I'd also avoid bright colors. Other than those, sure I am keen to look at others but i don't worry too much (<< hard to pitch this right, so i'll leave it there).
The di-acetyls are rather a unique case (but others may turn up, it's possible). The color is more of an allergy issue for certain people. In most cases, the issue is not that the flavor / color is toxic in itself but that it will become a 'dry residue' and ash on the heater coil. There are some great pictures that show this 'gunk' around the forums - it is very real, and sure I'd like to minimise that, but it's not that big a deal. Cooking often involves charring too, and the exposure is not only by ingestion, we breathe the burn-off products too while in the kitchen. So a measure of perspective is called for.
New :
Old (~1 week) :
Looks bad, but remember that the coil is only 5mm long and that's about 1 week's vaping; compare and contrast with an ashtray used for 1 week.
+++
The top picture I took a few years back. Notice how the solder blobs have hollowed (melted) where the heater wire enters. One possible source for the bad taste when the coil overheats due to lack of liquid cooling is from the solder flux (a tiny amount of tin might also get into the vapor). I'd rather see crimped or some other mechanical join rather than soldered joins.
Diacetyls appear to be a major concern. And I'd also avoid bright colors. Other than those, sure I am keen to look at others but i don't worry too much (<< hard to pitch this right, so i'll leave it there).
The di-acetyls are rather a unique case (but others may turn up, it's possible). The color is more of an allergy issue for certain people. In most cases, the issue is not that the flavor / color is toxic in itself but that it will become a 'dry residue' and ash on the heater coil. There are some great pictures that show this 'gunk' around the forums - it is very real, and sure I'd like to minimise that, but it's not that big a deal. Cooking often involves charring too, and the exposure is not only by ingestion, we breathe the burn-off products too while in the kitchen. So a measure of perspective is called for.
New :
Old (~1 week) :
Looks bad, but remember that the coil is only 5mm long and that's about 1 week's vaping; compare and contrast with an ashtray used for 1 week.
+++
The top picture I took a few years back. Notice how the solder blobs have hollowed (melted) where the heater wire enters. One possible source for the bad taste when the coil overheats due to lack of liquid cooling is from the solder flux (a tiny amount of tin might also get into the vapor). I'd rather see crimped or some other mechanical join rather than soldered joins.
Last edited:
One analysis of mainstream vapor showed it to be 66% water, 3% PG, 1% nicotine, + flavorings. The idea that the vapor is largely comprised of PG seems to be wrong. Exhaled vapor is likely to have an even higher amount of water.
If you looked really really hard I'm sure that things like formaldehyde would be found. They are just too tiny in quantity to be detected - parts per million - (and hence of little concern). Formaldehyde, for example, sounds nasty, but it's in washing up liquid, and a step in the body's metabolic detox of alcohol (sort of).
There are probably quite a number of decomposition products in vapor, BUT so tiny in amount that barely above what is in 'fresh' air.
In fact, it's probably partly from the air that some of that 'gunk' comes (smaller part).
Last edited:
True, but irrelevant. Most of that water did not come from from the e-liquid though, it's a normal part of respiration to exhale water. It's just additive to the glycols. How much of the glycol is exhaled depends on how long the vapor is held. It could be from near zero to perhaps halh if exhaled very quickly.
It looks a lot, but the amount is tiny* and is quickly diluted into the air.
If there's say 100 puffs in 1ml, then 0.01ml inhaled, maybe 0.001ml exhaled. If an exhale is say 10ml, then the glycol comprises 0.0001 x 100 = 0.01% of that exhaled air.
Now, how many ml of air in a typical room? Ok, you get the picture ...
About 10,000 ml. So our 10 ml of exhale will quickly be diluted by another 1000 times; about 1 part / million in a very small room (ok, cupboard) (1 puff).
It would build up some after vaping for hours with no window open, but even then, most would have settled, to eventually be wiped away with the dust.
Last edited:
On the issue of the cost of smoking to an economy, I've never seen any assertion backed by the figures, that showed smokers contributed less than 5 times what treating them costs. In addition, none of these work-ups included the savings to the state of having them die earlier - less pensions, social services cost, and so on.
As far as I can see, there has never been any valid work showing that smokers cost the country a cent. This most likely applies everywhere, since in developed countries where people are treated free at the state's cost, the treatment may be expensive, but tobacco tax rates are very high. In countries where tobacco is cheap, they tend to be places where everything is cheap and they don't treat the sick extensively anyway.
No doubt there are countries where tobacco is cheap and where people have very good health care. I'm thinking Cuba for example. Perhaps, somewhere like this, smoking does end up costing the country something, but it would seem to be an unusual case. It certainly doesn't cost the state a net cent in the developed western world, especially in a country where tobacco tax is high and there is no blanket state health provision.
As far as I can see, there has never been any valid work showing that smokers cost the country a cent. This most likely applies everywhere, since in developed countries where people are treated free at the state's cost, the treatment may be expensive, but tobacco tax rates are very high. In countries where tobacco is cheap, they tend to be places where everything is cheap and they don't treat the sick extensively anyway.
No doubt there are countries where tobacco is cheap and where people have very good health care. I'm thinking Cuba for example. Perhaps, somewhere like this, smoking does end up costing the country something, but it would seem to be an unusual case. It certainly doesn't cost the state a net cent in the developed western world, especially in a country where tobacco tax is high and there is no blanket state health provision.
I have tried to keep my dog out of the figh...errr, arguem...errr discussion BUT, ever since I started vaping a couple of months ago, I noticed a very disturbing trend...it seems, since I started vaping, the SUN is coming up later each morning and setting earlier each evening...OMG, if this trend continues, it will be the end of the world as we know it...I must stop vaping and return to the funkarettes...if only to save the world...oh, the humanity(and the kids)!!!!!!!!
madjack
p.s. go tell(or don't) the Mayans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!mj
madjack
p.s. go tell(or don't) the Mayans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!mj
Last edited:
If you look at the air quality analysis of a populated city, IMO the air we breath can kill you. On high smog day's people go outside in masks, and some people will not go out at all. As far as vaping flavors, I do not know what the long term effects will be. I believe do believe however, that if there were some negative effects of flavoring being vaped on the body there would be at least some evidence of it. I know that vaping is still "new" but if someone were to use analogs for 5 years on a daily bases there would be some negative impact to their health. If anything, ivaping has improved the quality of life for people who were on analogs. I will not say that it is 100 % safe, but I do humbly believe that its is 99% safer then smoking.
I have tried to keep my dog out of the figh...errr, arguem...errr discussion BUT, ever since I started vaping a couple of months ago, I noticed a very disturbing trend...it seems, since I started vaping, the SUN is coming up later each morning and setting earlier each evening...OMG, if this trend continues, it will be the end of the world as we know it...I must stop vaping and return to the funkarettes...if only to save the world...oh, the humanity(and the kids)!!!!!!!!
madjack
p.s. go tel(or don't)l the Mayans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!mj
Whatever are you vaping !?
When it finally dawns that we;re entering (a natural) ice age, that'll be blamed on vaping ...
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
