Something interesting about Mount Baker Juices

[Cariessa]

I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks, vaping for a month or so, and I found out something today that really bothers me. It might be old news to more experienced vapers but it's a real eye opener for me.

A local smoke shop carries mount baker Vapor. I was looking for MBV Arnold Palmer and didn't want to wait for it to be shipped (and to steep) so I stopped in there. He didn't carry AP but told me he'd order it for me at 11.99 for 15ml. That's a hell of a markup from the website so I decided I'd just order from the web and wait it out.

I go to the website and notice a 'wholesale' link so I decided to see if I could find out what he was getting the juice for. When I click I see that mount baker sells it's labels STAND ALONE. Not only that but they sell everything to make juice stand alone, along with premixed juices. I was shocked. Surely not... I mean they care about their brand more than that right?

I decide to click on the chat and ask support... sure enough they have no quality control over anything once it leaves their warehouse. As a wholesaler I can buy Mount Baker labels and stick it on whatever I like. Not only that but I can buy their flavorings and mix my own with their label.. weak, strong, label 80/20 as 20/80, whatever. I'm really shocked that they don't control their brand any better.

Am I naive and this is a common practice, or is Mount Baker nuts?

 

[retired1]

You're assuming that the wholesale bottles are only 15 or 30ml sizes. If I, as a supplier, am going to purchase something in wholesale quantities, I'm going to get it in gallons, not ounces. So yes, I'm also going to want labels to affix to the 30 or 15ml bottles when I break the large order down into retail bottles.

 

[dshgr]

I'm not really surprised. Their juices are really just unflavored nic base with Flavor West flavorings. Nothing fancy. $11.99 for 15 ml is ridiculous!

 

[Cariessa]

You're assuming that the wholesale bottles are only 15 or 30ml sizes. If I, as a supplier, am going to purchase something in wholesale quantities, I'm going to get it in gallons, not ounces. So yes, I'm also going to want labels to affix to the 30 or 15ml bottles when I break the large order down into retail bottles.

Personally if I'm going to try to build a brand I'm going to carefully quality control that brand. My labels would go on what I deemed worthy and if I'm going to allow third party distribution my product would be shipped shelf ready. If a retail outlet wanted to buy in gallons then they wouldn't be using my labels as I would have no control over the final product.

I just won't be buying Mount Baker from a third party. I'll also be completely researching other web-based brands with third party distribution. I buy a brand because I trust the quality. If a third party can buy the brand labels and stick it on whatever they like I can't trust it.

EDIT: Honestly this would be like Sam Adams selling their labels and letting Keystone slap a Sam Adams Boston Lager label on Keystone light. Eventually word is going to get out that Sam Adams Boston Lager tastes like p*** water.

 

[Racehorse]

I'm not really surprised. Their juices are really just unflavored nic base with Flavor West flavorings. Nothing fancy. $11.99 for 15 ml is ridiculous!

Open a business and pay labor, internet hosting fees, credit card processing fees, etc. etc. and then all the handling that goes into simply making 30ml of juice, packing it and shipping it...........and then come back and tell me $11.99 for 15ml is too much

LOL They give away 15ml of juice for each $15 order as well.

MBV is such a successful business model, it's pretty amazing.

 

[Cariessa]

Open a business and pay labor, internet hosting fees, credit card processing fees, etc. etc. and then all the handling that goes into simply making 30ml of juice, packing it and shipping it...........and then come back and tell me $11.99 for 15ml is too much

LOL They give away 15ml of juice for each $15 order as well.

MBV is such a successful business model, it's pretty amazing.

You're a bit confused I think... 11.99 was for 15ml at the local shop. The same flavor and size is 4.99 from MBV website. Even if the dude is buying at MBV retail prices that's still a 240% markup.

And who knows if it's what MBV sells from their website because he can buy the labels from them and stick it on whatever he likes.

 

[herb]

You have a choice, buy it direct from Baker or pay the higher prices, once it leaves Baker whoever bought it is allowed to charge anything they want .

Take fishing rods , big time manufacturers make the blanks for a lot of smaller outfits , once the smaller guy buys them he can charge anything he wants .

Some vendors are getting a lot more $$ for Hana clones because people are willing to pay much higher prices for them , it's called doing business.

 

[obsidian5889]

While I agree with the op that mbv is risking losing control of its product by allowing things to be sold this way. I think it's just better to buy everything straight from the source anyway

 

[obsidian5889]

You have a choice, buy it direct from Baker or pay the higher prices, once it leaves Baker whoever bought it is allowed to charge anything they want .

Take fishing rods , big time manufacturers make the blanks for a lot of smaller outfits , once the smaller guy buys them he can charge anything he wants .

Some vendors are getting a lot more $$ for Hana clones because people are willing to pay much higher prices for them , it's called doing business.

I think the issue isn't with the price mark up so much as mbv selling labels that can be put on a bottle of anything be it an actual mbv juice or something else

 

[Cariessa]

You have a choice, buy it direct from Baker or pay the higher prices, once it leaves Baker whoever bought it is allowed to charge anything they want .

Take fishing rods , big time manufacturers make the blanks for a lot of smaller outfits , once the smaller guy buys them he can charge anything he wants .

Some vendors are getting a lot more $$ for Hana clones because people are willing to pay much higher prices for them , it's called doing business.

As another poster said, my problem isn't really with the price markup, he can charge whatever he likes. I can choose not to pay it.

My problem is buying something with a Mount Baker label on it not realizing that it could be something completely different than Mount Bakers product.

As to your fishing rod analogy, the big time manufacturers aren't letting the smaller outfits put their brand name on whatever piece of crap they like. Selling your product and letting someone put their label on it is one thing, selling your label and letting someone put it on their product is something totally different.

 

[herb]

I think the issue isn't with the price mark up so much as mbv selling labels that can be put on a bottle of anything be it an actual mbv juice or something else

If your saying vendors buy just the labels and fraudulently sell stuff under the Baker name when it's not baker juice then thats a major no no .

Baker has a stellar reputation and i found that out when i complained about them but thats another matter , maybe they should be criticized and i'm glad this is coming out for people who don't know (if they care) somehow i don't think many do.

 

[Cariessa]

If your saying vendors buy just the labels and fraudulently sell stuff under the Baker name when it's not baker juice then thats a major no no .

Baker has a stellar reputation and i found that out when i complained about them but thats another matter , maybe they should be criticized and i'm glad this is coming out for people who don't know (if they care) somehow i don't think many do.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying this local shop is doing it, I'm saying it's possible. And when I asked customer support at Mount Baker their reply was "We have no control over our whole sale product once it leaves our warehouse. That includes our labels"

 

[herb]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying this local shop is doing it, I'm saying it's possible. And when I asked customer support at Mount Baker their reply was "We have no control over our whole sale product once it leaves our warehouse. That includes our labels"

Post this in the E juice forum but be prepared to be attacked .

 

[Cariessa]

Post this in the E juice forum but be prepared to be attacked .

I don't think I can yet I'm a new member.

 

[herb]

As another poster said, my problem isn't really with the price markup, he can charge whatever he likes. I can choose not to pay it.

My problem is buying something with a Mount Baker label on it not realizing that it could be something completely different than Mount Bakers product.

As to your fishing rod analogy, the big time manufacturers aren't letting the smaller outfits put their brand name on whatever piece of crap they like. Selling your product and letting someone put their label on it is one thing, selling your label and letting someone put it on their product is something totally different.

I agree , i misinterpreted your post , my apologies.

 

[herb]

I don't think I can yet I'm a new member.

Your past your 5 post requirement , just copy and paste your initial post. I would be interested in seeing some of the responses .

Don't worry, it's not that hostile lol.

 

[Thomas Scout]

MBV really reminds me of open-source software.

 

[Cariessa]

Your past your 5 post requirement , just copy and paste your initial post. I would be interested in seeing some of the responses .

Don't worry, it's not that hostile lol.

I don't have a link to make a new thread in that forum, Herb

 

[Racehorse]

Post this in the E juice forum but be prepared to be attacked .

I doubt that, but there would certainly be different POV.

You're a bit confused I think... 11.99 was for 15ml at the local shop. The same flavor and size is 4.99 from MBV website. Even if the dude is buying at MBV retail prices that's still a 240% markup.

I see what you're saying. And the idea you have for the way you would run YOUR business is a good one.

But I still hold to same point. I've run a few businesses, I know what it costs.

the "local shop" has rent or mortgage, real estate taxes, lights, heat and A/C, license, inspections, signage (my god, have you prices a simple banner sign lately? I almost fell down) etc. They probably pay workers comp and SS taxes on their employees, etc. Maybe accountant fees, as well as CC processing fees, etc.

They buy in bulk, rebottle, and make a profit off that juice in smaller bottles. Sure. Why not?

Their customers probably enjoy the convenience of being able to walk in and pick up 6ml or so when they need it. Or they want to buy some juice with some new kanger coils, etc. I picked up a doo-hickey connector I needed at my B&M...overpaid, but I needed it that day, was sure happy they were open and had one to sell!

Those customers have a choice: go home and make 6ml of juice and/or buy online and pay postage then wait for it to arrive.

Really, this is all about choices, and instead of being happy we have so many choices.... Be happy this industry is still healthy. Believe me, things could get a whole lot more cumbersome, and expensive.

But=====the way I'm seeing prices going, I can't see how a lot of vendors can afford to stay in business. There have been a few lately that went out of biz, they sited ebay, FB, and foreign based wholesaler prices etc. .....they can't compete.

MBV has created a successful business model.......sell huge quantities, and make the pricing really good.

And, by the way......I'm not even an MBV customer. I just like to look at business models, see what people are doing and how they stay profitable.

 

[Racehorse]

My problem is buying something with a Mount Baker label on it not realizing that it could be something completely different than Mount Bakers product.

Cariessa, the whole reason a shop would BUY the labels and pre mixed juice is because they don't want to be a juice mixer themselves.

What could they possibly want to "do" to the juice? Make it bad so their customers won't buy it?

I do understand what you're saying, but unless somebody had a serious vendetta against MBV, I am searching my brain for a motivation to "make it something completely different".

Bottom line, they're buying it pre mixed and with labels to save their own labor, and make a profit.

That is, after all, how most business people think.

I see the pitfall you are talking about, I just don't see many instances where it would be a problem?


Maybe somebody can give a "for instance".....