Sony 18650 Battery (Who Makes them???) Not Sony.

[AngryCagen]

I was doing some research after I came across a video stating that the Sony vtc3,4 or 5's are not made by Sony. So I started doing my own research and started where any one of you guys or gals would start. Google. And then I Googled some more...and more.............and more.......No where does it show a Sony website and Sony claiming to actually make the battery. I actually went to an official sony website and you can see where a customer shows the Sony rep a picture of the green battery and the Sony Rep replies and says.

" We could not find any information regarding this battery, you can check our Parts Center website for officially released batteries at https://servicesales.sel.sony.com/
"

I actually copied and pasted the above text from the Sony Rep...........And if you actually click on the link the Sony Rep gives, you can punch in the Sony vtc3,4 or 5 or 18650 or any type of combination and see that it does not come up. That is just crazy...........actually in the world of clones....I guess it's pretty normal....but if the battery was called Wal-Mart Special buy...would you still buy the battery???

Re: Sony 30a 18650vtc5 batteries, are these authen... - Sony's Community Site


At this point we should all go on results and tests done to the battery itself. Sony may not make the green vtc3, 4 or 5,...but I would assume all of the tests done to those batteries are legit. just not the actual Sony name.

I would love to hear some feedback on this topic. I know Baditude will have some great feedback on this topic.

 

[AngryCagen]

Just an update. I signed up on the official Sony website to speak with a Sony rep and asked the same question. Let's see what happens and I will post the link when I get any type of results.

 

[readeuler]

I think it's currently a topic of discussion, over in the Batteries and Chargers forum, in particular, this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/batteries-chargers/590787-more-fake-sony-vtc5.html.

My impression is that is turned into a "down the rabbit hole" issue, with all sorts of fun red herrings.

EDIT: I don't think you'll get much information from Sony itself, because these batteries were never meant to end up in our hands. I don't think they're in the mood to speak in much detail with anyone that isn't their target battery audience (not us).

 

[classwife]

Moved to Batteries and Chargers from General Vaping Discussion

 

[Nytebreed]

I noticed this on Sony's consumer website as well, and am interested to hear what Sony says.
I chalked it up to Sony having an inordinate number of corporate divisions, each with their own website, and not knowing which one this fell under.

 

[Nytebreed]

Andi it seems that this thread further corroborates my theory.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/batteries-chargers/592551-sony-vtc-5-a.html

" Sony doesn't own up to much of anything in fact as they state that the VTC series of batteries were never intended to be sold directly for consumer/end users use. They all were meant for manufacturers to build battery packs and other parts for power tools and such."

If this is true that is why there is no info our our beloved VTCs on the consumer sites.

 

[AngryCagen]

I was looking for the thread to post in there, but with the new interface, I had trouble finding it. I knew you would move it. thanks!

 

[likeego]

I found a link about a high drain battery in green wrapping like the VTC batteries but they appear to be only 20A batteries so not quite what we are using. But the pic matches (perhaps an older model?). I don't know if this is an official sony site though as it is sony.net?? Anyways here is the link:

Sony Global - Sony Launches High-power, Long-life Lithium Ion Secondary Battery Using Olivine-type Lithium Iron Ph

 

[Baditude]

From what I have come to understand, Sony contracted multiple factories to make the Sony VTC series of batteries which have become the top battery for our use in mechanical mods (more specifically for sub-ohm vapors). As said before, Sony never intended for these batteries to be sold to consumers to be used as single batteries. They were meant to be used in multiples in battery packs with their own protection circuit (cars, airliners, power tools).

__________________________________________
​

Here's a recent email inquirey to Sony and a representative's response:
http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2cttd4/sony_vtc5_18650_notice_from_sony/

"I recently purchased some Sony VTC5 18650 batteries from an online vendor. They listed the battery specs on their website, but I wanted to double check with Sony before I started building my setup. I couldn't find anything on their website, so I emailed them. Here was their reply:

Dear customer, thank you for your inquiry.
The 18650 type batteries are no longer manufactured by Sony.
This product was never intended for individual, public sale and are not eligible for warranty or engineering support.
It was only available to OEM makers of specific devices.
The specifications and markings on the battery may vary depending upon the OEM’s requirements. Therefore, it is difficult to determine the true manufacturer or authenticity of the batteries without physical inspection and manufacturing code research.
This type of battery is widely available on the internet market through non-authorized resellers.
Therefore, Sony is not liable for the performance or use of this type battery for non-intended purposes.
Such applications should be done at the user’s own risk.
Furthermore, any battery of this type claimed to be Sony brand may be older stock.
We apologize that we cannot offer further assistance with this matter.
Sincerely,
Media Services by Sony"

_________________________________________________​

We have "borrowed" their technology for our own uses, and in my opinion some of us have been abusing the technology by pushing the batteries above their limits. Using RBA's with 0.1 ohm or lower coils is above the 30 amp continuous rating of the Sony batteries. I won't go into the so-called "pulse" rating, other than to say its my belief that this spec is arbitrary, redundant, and unreliable. Every manufacturer, reseller, and vendor has their own definition of what a pulse rating means. There is no industry standard for this spec like there is (or should be) for the continuous discharge rating (can you hear me Efest?).

I wouldn't own up to making these batteries either if consumers are using them for unintended purposes. Litigation lawsuits come to mind. Someone is going to blow their hand or face off eventually and try to sue the manufacturer of the battery. We've already seen a similar situation when a Florida man literally blew his jaw off using a particular mechanical mod. He sued the manufacturer and they went out of business.

Bottom line, Sony says they haven't made the Sony VTC series of batteries for years. Yet they still exist. Who is making these batteries? Obviously its not Sony. Knowing this, there is no such thing as a genuine Sony VTC battery. All of them are clones. This is a pretty scary situation. A lot of people are taking it for granted that the best battery for sub-ohm vaping is a Sony, safe, and pushing them HARD. I use a couple of VTC4 and VTC5's myself, but I'm only using them at 0.6 ohms, well above a 30 amp continuous rating. Cloud chasers beware.

 

[Nytebreed]

Good to have a definative answer. I've personally been using nothing but VTC 5s in my mechs. Granted I don't build extremely low. My lowest build in use is.37, but knowing this I think I'll stick to .5 to .6 in the future and live with the slightly longer fire speed. May be an excuse to try some of the 2500mah 35a LGs.

 

[Ryedan]

I found a link about a high drain battery in green wrapping like the VTC batteries but they appear to be only 20A batteries so not quite what we are using. But the pic matches (perhaps an older model?). I don't know if this is an official sony site though as it is sony.net?? Anyways here is the link:

Sony Global - Sony Launches High-power, Long-life Lithium Ion Secondary Battery Using Olivine-type Lithium Iron Ph

That's a press release from 2009. Those batteries are lithium iron phosphate, aka LiFePO4. They are 3.6V and mAh is low.

 

[likeego]

Ah I see. Yeah sorry. Should have looked a bit closer. Guess that wasn't much help haha

 

[dannyrl]

This news has me really concerned and is really bad news for vaping IMO. Our beloved VTC batteries, regarded as the best 18650s, turn out to be of unknown origin. This news on top of the Efest drama has me pretty worried for the safety of some of our vapers. It's times like this where I think that a little bit of regulation would help us keep from hurting ourselves, but unfortunately "a little" isn't possible with our government .

This battery scare actually has me looking into going back to regulated mods so that I can have an extra layer of circuit protection. I'm glad devices like the IPV2 and soon the IPV3 are out.

Hopefully I can get these batteries hooked up to some testing equipment at my university to check the claims of these VTCs. I'd have to get on my professors' good side first though lol.

 

[dr g]

We've already seen a similar situation when a Florida man literally blew his jaw off using a particular mechanical mod. He sued the manufacturer and they went out of business.

Link to this?

 

[Baditude]

We've already seen a similar situation when a Florida man literally blew his jaw off using a particular mechanical mod. He sued the manufacturer and they went out of business.

Link to this?

Electric Cigarette Explodes in Fla. Man's Face - ABC News

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-vaping-discussion/268761-local-nw-floridian-severe-injuries-exploding-ecig-battery-5.html

The victim was Tom Holloway. The mod was a Pure Smoker mechanical mod. PureSmoker recently went out of business after Holloway won his lawsuit with Pure Smoker.

I doubt that you will find any information about the lawsuit as the participants in the litigation were under a gag order. However, its pretty common knowledge why Pure Smoker was forced to go out of business.

Trying to find more information, it appears Pure Smoker was also sued by a second victim from Colorado.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/288409-colorado-man-sues-after-explosion.html

http://www.vaportalk.com/forum/topic/15316-puresmoker-mod-blows-up/

 

[AngryCagen]

It's been a couple days and Sony has not replied to my question to them. I have seen that it was read by 12 people, but no reply. But Baditude has answered my question already. Thanks a million. While I typically vape on my regulated device at .5 Ω, I still use my mech mod on a weekly basis at .3 Ω. I have 1 Fony vtc5....lol and 2 Purple eFest 35A. I at least have some comfort knowing that eFest has their name on the battery and a site they show more specs and limits for the battery and they know what people are using them for. I have had a couple experiences with the Fony VTC batteries before. The last was me just tightening down the rda and top piece onto the body of my mech mod after I adjusted the pin for less battery rattle. It seems if I tighten it down to hard, it starts to fire. The mod I have is the Pegasus and it is all copper. And a few months back I had another copper mech mod that had the same issue, but that time, there was no rda on the mod, just me tightening down the bottom portion and I felt the entire mod get super hot and had to unscrew it to get the battery out. I actually made a thread about it here in the ECF. I did some tests to it and chalked it up as a bad mech mod that had a hot spot which I tested with a multi meter. So after that last incident, I no longer feel to comfortable keeping batteries in a mech mod if I am not using it. Hopefully someone will read this and explain why it (Pegasus) fired when tightening down top piece to much. Because I always double, triple check the locking ring is on first, and I even did another test to see if it would do it again and it does when I over tighten the top piece. I don't know what is completing the circuit if the bottom pin is locked and not engaged. But I like to be on the safe side no matter what. And that is why my signature reads "Vape Safe, Accidents Can Wait" It is important to always be aware of what you are working with. I actually spent more time reading Baditude's forums than I did vaping in the beginning and I am glad I did. It keeps me on my toes and hopefully others will follow the safe path. Sorry for the rant and thanks for all the great feedback.

 

[AngryCagen]

Electric Cigarette Explodes in Fla. Man's Face - ABC News

The victim was Tom Holloway. The mod was a Pure Smoker mechanical mod. PureSmoker recently went out of business after Holloway won his lawsuit with Pure Smoker.

I doubt that you will find any information about the lawsuit as the participants in the litigation were under a gag order. However, its pretty common knowledge why Pure Smoker was forced to go out of business.

Trying to find more information, it appears Pure Smoker was also sued by a second victim from Colorado.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/288409-colorado-man-sues-after-explosion.html

(I didn't have time to read the thread in the link, as I'm off to work.)

The guy bought the mod (Prodigy) of the internet and when he got it, it said he bought the proper batteries from Radio Shack. The batteries were called enercell. huh???


Here is the report below.

DENVER (CN) - A man was hospitalized for eight days after an electronic cigarette exploded in his face, sending "burning debris and battery acid into his mouth, face, and eyes," the e-smoker claims in Federal Court.
Phillip Hahn sued Pure Enterprises dba Puresmoker.com and Ignition L.P., on a variety of charges, and his wife sued for loss of consortium.
Hahn says he "purchased a Prodigy V3.1 electronic cigarette device from Pure Enterprises' online store, at the website address of puresmoker.com."
After buying the proper batteries from a (nonparty) RadioShack the next day, "Phillip Hahn was using the Prodigy energized by the Enercell batteries at his residence when the Enercell batteries inside the Prodigy suddenly and unexpectedly exploded," the complaint states.
"The explosion sent burning debris and battery acid into Phillip Hahn's mouth, face, and eyes, and as a result, Phillip Hahn sustained catastrophic injuries.
"At all times relevant hereto, Theresa Hahn was in the zone of danger and contemporaneously observed the incident and Phillip Hahn's injuries and immediately called 911.
"Phillip Hahn was transported by ambulance to Northern Colorado Medical Center where he remained for eight (8) days."
The Hahns claim the defendants made numerous false claims about their product, including "'USA-Made High Quality,' ... and 'thousands of hours of research, design and testing have resulted in the high-caliber devices you see here today.'"
They seek damages for product liability, defective design and manufacture, negligence, negligent infliction of emotional distress, failure to warn, and other charges.
They are represented by Arron Nesbitt with Taylor Anderson


Enercell is an alkaline battery...........So in what world is that safe to use in a mech mod......And why are they saying "the proper battery" It's BS like that people read and get misled. Just makes me sick. I feel horrible for the accident, but "enercell" batteries....REALLY!

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Sorry....I'm angry...

 

[Ryedan]

Ah I see. Yeah sorry. Should have looked a bit closer. Guess that wasn't much help haha

No problem my friend. At least this doesn't only happen to me

 

[dr g]

Electric Cigarette Explodes in Fla. Man's Face - ABC News

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-vaping-discussion/268761-local-nw-floridian-severe-injuries-exploding-ecig-battery-5.html

The victim was Tom Holloway. The mod was a Pure Smoker mechanical mod. PureSmoker recently went out of business after Holloway won his lawsuit with Pure Smoker.

I doubt that you will find any information about the lawsuit as the participants in the litigation were under a gag order. However, its pretty common knowledge why Pure Smoker was forced to go out of business.

Trying to find more information, it appears Pure Smoker was also sued by a second victim from Colorado.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/288409-colorado-man-sues-after-explosion.html

Puresmoker Mod Blows Up - Electronic Cigarette News - Vapor Talk E Cig Forum

That guy seemed to be using incorrect batteries in his mod. No?

Not that lying or withholding information in any way would protect the manufacturer from liability.

 

[Baditude]

That guy seemed to be using incorrect batteries in his mod. No?

Not that lying or withholding information in any way would protect the manufacturer from liability.

It appears that the customer used incorrect batteries in the mod. I am not privy to information at that time, but it has been said that the manufacterer did not provide recommendations on what type of batteries to use in his mod, and may not have had vent holes in the mod to allow venting of gas from the mod should a battery go into thermal runaway.