Sony VCT5A Batteries

[Robin Becker]

I would not even dare to use the VTC5D, because this battery is not official on the market...so most probably all batteries are just pre-production, or taking from other battery packs?!
If the VTC6 gives under 20A its capacity according to the specification, it shows, that the battery is capable on doing that with hardly any risk. Yes, it will cost the battery (VTC6) some cycle-life, but even Mooch showed, that the VTC6 is capable on 20A.
In any case, I just wanted to say, that sometime the better Voltage performance gives more or equal Wh, even if the capacity is lower. That would be the case under 20A at the VTC5A and VTC6 down to 3.2V

 

[dripster]

I would not even dare to use the VTC5D, because this battery is not official on the market...so most probably all batteries are just pre-production, or taking from other battery packs?!
If the VTC6 gives under 20A its capacity according to the specification, it shows, that the battery is capable on doing that with hardly any risk. Yes, it will cost the battery (VTC6) some cycle-life, but even Mooch showed, that the VTC6 is capable on 20A.
In any case, I just wanted to say, that sometime the better Voltage performance gives more or equal Wh, even if the capacity is lower. That would be the case under 20A at the VTC5A and VTC6 down to 3.2V

The Sony VTC5D is officially on the market. Just because the Vapcell black 25A 2800mAh is a rewrap of it, doesn't inherently make it suspicious or "unofficial" in any way, and, no, it hasn't been harvested from battery packs, which is pretty obvious TBH.

As for the Sony VTC6 being capable of being discharged continuously at 20A, the official datasheet of the VTC6 from Sony clearly states that the battery temperature measured at the surface of the battery should not exceed 80°C. However, if discharged at 20A continuously, the battery temperature DOES rise above 80°C, and, what this boils down to is that the CDR of the VTC6 is only 15A.
The Sony VTC6 is not rated at 30A!

 

[Robin Becker]

The Sony VTC5D is according to my very reliable information not yet on the market, and if a Chinese company like Vapecell sells it, it means nothing!
I know the specification of the VTC6 in the manwhile almost by heart, and yes Murata (Sony) talks about 15A without an NTC, or temperture cut-off, still the battery can exceed the 15A CDR and most probably nothing will happen.
I never said, that vapers should use it above 15A, I just said, that the VTC6 reaches 20A CDR and still shows a very nice Voltage and good capacity - that´s it!
As another example we can take the INR21700-40T. SDI talks about a CDR of 30A-35A, while Mooch recommends the battery with 25A CDR.
The same we can say about Molicel INR20700A. Molicel would claim it can reach 35A CDR, but Mooch results led him to recommend less.

 

[dripster]

The Sony VTC5D is according to my very reliable information not yet on the market, and if a Chinese company like Vapecell sells it, it means nothing!
I know the specification of the VTC6 in the manwhile almost by heart, and yes Murata (Sony) talks about 15A without an NTC, or temperture cut-off, still the battery can exceed the 15A CDR and most probably nothing will happen.
I never said, that vapers should use it above 15A, I just said, that the VTC6 reaches 20A CDR and still shows a very nice Voltage and good capacity - that´s it!
As another example we can take the INR21700-40T. SDI talks about a CDR of 30A-35A, while Mooch recommends the battery with 25A CDR.
The same we can say about Molicel INR20700A. Molicel would claim it can reach 35A CDR, but Mooch results led him to recommend less.

If a company legally sells it and it's genuine, it means it's on the market alright, and this is despite there might be different grades; a lower grade doesn't make it unofficial nor makes it any less genuine, nor makes it a reject or anything like that. Further, any Maximum Continuous Discharge Current that is temperature-limited (to 80°C in this case) is NOT to be confused with the true Continuous Discharge Rating (CDR), and, the Sony datasheet does clearly state that the CDR of the VTC6 is 15A so no, and, still no.

 

[Robin Becker]

Unfortunately you mix between lots of things. The VTC5D carries "unofficially" the last letter of a very known manufacturer, that this battery has been designed for his devices. Most of the big and known manufacturer use big assembly companies in the far east to assemble their products (See all Apple devices). Very often components "disappear" and find their way into the consumer market.
I remember such a case with a known flash-light manufacturer in Germany (Led-Lenser), that few years ago, had many problems with "grey imports" of flash-lights, that "disapperaed" from the stock of his assembler in China. Were those flashlights genuine? Yes, were they official on the market? No!!!
Further and according to your argument, everyone can use the INR21700-40T up to 35A CDR and the Molicel INR20700A can be used also up to 35A...just because those are the official specifications of the manufacturer?!
Bench Retest Results: Sanyo NCR2070C 20700...fantastic performing 30A battery
and last but not least....If there will be a battery mod (not Mech-Mod) with a proven working temperture cut-off on its electronics, will it be OK to use the VTC6 up to 30A?!
One of the reason, why Mooch work is so important, is because he tests the batteries and "match" them, or give recommendations to the vaper´s community. He fill-up the gap between the official specifications of the battery manufacturer and the very unique use of us vapers with those batteries.

 

[dripster]

Unfortunately you mix between lots of things. The VTC5D carries "unofficially" the last letter of a very known manufacturer, that this battery has been designed for his devices. Most of the big and known manufacturer use big assembly companies in the far east to assemble their products (See all Apple devices). Very often components "disappear" and find their way into the consumer market.
I remember such a case with a known flash-light manufacturer in Germany (Led-Lenser), that few years ago, had many problems with "grey imports" of flash-lights, that "disapperaed" from the stock of his assembler in China. Were those flashlights genuine? Yes, were they official on the market? No!!!
Further and according to your argument, everyone can use the INR21700-40T up to 35A CDR and the Molicel INR20700A can be used also up to 35A...just because those are the official specifications of the manufacturer?!
Bench Retest Results: Sanyo NCR2070C 20700...fantastic performing 30A battery
and last but not least....If there will be a battery mod (not Mech-Mod) with a proven working temperture cut-off on its electronics, will it be OK to use the VTC6 up to 30A?!
One of the reason, why Mooch work is so important, is because he tests the batteries and "match" them, or give recommendations to the vaper´s community. He fill-up the gap between the official specifications of the battery manufacturer and the very unique use of us vapers with those batteries.

I don't mix between anything. I merely present the important facts; the VTC5A also was originally designed to be used in cordless vacuum cleaners so your point is both silly and moot. These VTC5D rewraps are genuine Sony manufactured cells, and they aren't rejects. In addition, they are sold by the kind of vendors that have made it to Mooch's list of trusted battery vendors. I purchased 12 of these rewrapped cells from NKON in The Netherlands, and, this was 10 whole months ago. I kept checking their website every once in a while, and I still do. Each time when I looked for these Vapcells to see if NKON still had them in stock, it turned out they were in stock. They are extremely very officially on the market. Stop. Both Mooch and Arjan Kon of NKON have true credentials to back this all up so please do not bother to reply to me any longer, as I have better things to do than keep reading your nonsensical retorts. Full stop.

 

[mimöschen]

Point is, Vapcell is absolutely not a company to be trusted. They've already been caught changing their cells without changing their wraps.
That makes your assumption that the VTC5D is officially available a little bit shaky.

 

[Robin Becker]

I don't mix between anything. I merely present the important facts; the VTC5A also was originally designed to be used in cordless vacuum cleaners so your point is both silly and moot. These VTC5D rewraps are genuine Sony manufactured cells, and they aren't rejects. In addition, they are sold by the kind of vendors that have made it to Mooch's list of trusted battery vendors. I purchased 12 of these rewrapped cells from NKON in The Netherlands, and, this was 10 whole months ago. I kept checking their website every once in a while, and I still do. Each time when I looked for these Vapcells to see if NKON still had them in stock, it turned out they were in stock. They are extremely very officially on the market. Stop. Both Mooch and Arjan Kon of NKON have true credentials to back this all up so please do not bother to reply to me any longer, as I have better things to do than keep reading your nonsensical retorts. Full stop.

Listen...I am very nice guy, but what you write here is completly nonesense and can not be kept without a response. Neither Nkon, nor Vapecell buy their batteries directly from Murata, because they are not manufacturer, assembler, or partners, but just Retailers! They buy their batteries from the market and sell them into the market. THATS IT!!!
Apperantly you don´t understand the difference between batteries that are official released to the market and those ones, that are not!
There are out there many small and medium-sized companies, among them are start-ups etc., that can not buy directly from the manufacturer, because they are too small, or just have no access to the manufacturer. Those companies would usually buy the batteries from the distribution of the manufacturer, or from partner companies in their country. Those companies might apply for UL, or IEC certifications for their applications and would need a certain level of assurance, that the batteries they use, are real genuine ones (Tracking of supply chain managemnet).
The US18650VTC5A is a released battery, which mean, it is used by many different companies, for many different applications...and also by us vapers.
The US18650VTC5D is not yet realesed, which simply means...you can´t buy them as a company, in order to use them in your application!
Your Bla-Bla-Bla is therefore just iritate the people. So it is good that you make a stop at this point!

 

[dripster]

Point is, Vapcell is absolutely not a company to be trusted. They've already been caught changing their cells without changing their wraps.
That makes your assumption that the VTC5D is officially available a little bit shaky.

The Vapcell black 25A 2800mAh has been widely available for a long time from several of the vendors that are on Mooch's list of trusted battery vendors. Any serious problems that would have occurred with this particular battery would have been found out by now, as the VTC5D is a bottom venting 18650 with a circular score line that clearly is visible on the bottom of this battery so changing it without anyone easily noticing the change is simply not possible with this battery; there just aren't enough other bottom venting 18650 batteries out there yet to make it possible. That makes your assumption that you know what you are talking about more than just a little bit shaky.

 

[dripster]

Listen...I am very nice guy, but what you write here is completly nonesense and can not be kept without a response. Neither Nkon, nor Vapecell buy their batteries directly from Murata, because they are not manufacturer, assembler, or partners, but just Retailers! They buy their batteries from the market and sell them into the market. THATS IT!!!

So? If you buy Sony VTC5A cells from any of the vendors that are on Mooch's list of trusted battery vendors, then the exact same logic also applies because none of these vendors buy the VTC5A directly from Sony, either.

Apperantly you don´t understand the difference between batteries that are official released to the market and those ones, that are not!

I do understand it, perfectly well in fact.

There are out there many small and medium-sized companies, among them are start-ups etc., that can not buy directly from the manufacturer, because they are too small, or just have no access to the manufacturer. Those companies would usually buy the batteries from the distribution of the manufacturer, or from partner companies in their country. Those companies might apply for UL, or IEC certifications for their applications and would need a certain level of assurance, that the batteries they use, are real genuine ones (Tracking of supply chain managemnet).
The US18650VTC5A is a released battery, which mean, it is used by many different companies, for many different applications...and also by us vapers.
The US18650VTC5D is not yet realesed, which simply means...you can´t buy them as a company, in order to use them in your application!
Your Bla-Bla-Bla is therefore just iritate the people. So it is good that you make a stop at this point!

The Sony VTC5D is officially on the market, just like it was officially on the market 10 whole months ago.

 

[Robin Becker]

I thought you wanted to stop spreading your fake news?
The INR21700-40T came from China into the market, long before Samsung SDI released them into the market and Mooch showed the difference between those Pre-Production cells to the ones that came later and were known as released! The differences on performance were easy to notify.
In case of the VTC5D, the first result on google for the specification of this battery leads to Dyson as a customer. Pls. show me one retailer (I couldn´t find) that can present the official specification of Murata for this battery.
And apperantly with your remark, you still don´t understand the difference between a special modification of a battery to a special customer (or even a special design) and a battery, that can be used by all general assemblers for different applications.

 

[dripster]

I thought you wanted to stop spreading your fake news?
The INR21700-40T came from China into the market, long before Samsung SDI released them into the market and Mooch showed the difference between those Pre-Production cells to the ones that came later and were known as released! The differences on performance were easy to notify.
In case of the VTC5D, the first result on google for the specification of this battery leads to Dyson as a customer. Pls. show me one retailer (I couldn´t find) that can present the official specification of Murata for this battery.
And apperantly with your remark, you still don´t understand the difference between a special modification of a battery to a special customer (or even a special design) and a battery, that can be used by all general assemblers for different applications.

The only ones who are spreading fake news are you and that guy who should rent a room with you.

 

[mimöschen]

Ah. I get it. Drippy's secret desires are finally revealed.
Well done, pal.

 

[dripster]

Ah. I get it. Drippy's secret desires are finally revealed.
Well done, pal.

I had no idea you were calling him Drippy. Tell us more, please!

 

[stols001]

All this heady battery talk. LOL, I just wanted to say I use IMRbatteries..com and I like them as a vendor. They are fast, friendly, and all around pleasant to deal with. If I'm going to get a lot of batteries, I might price comparison a bit these days, but really IMRbatteries is just fine as a vendor.

Annna

 

[Rossum]

All this heady battery talk. LOL, I just wanted to say I use IMRbatteries..com and I like them as a vendor. They are fast, friendly, and all around pleasant to deal with. If I'm going to get a lot of batteries, I might price comparison a bit these days, but really IMRbatteries is just fine as a vendor.

I've mostly used Orbtronic, but bear in mind that the argumentative people in this thread are in Europe so they're using different vendors.

 

[Robin Becker]

The only ones who are spreading fake news are you and that guy who should rent a room with you.

Don´t you notice, that all the disagrees you get here (not only from me) refer to the fake news you spread around?!
I have worked in strategic sourcing for companies since 5 years, mainly components like resistors, PCM´s, Power-suppliers and chargers, but also with batteries. What I write is based not only on experience, but also on information I get from both suppliers and industrial customers. While you, by mentioning a rewraping company like Vapecell as reliable source, shows that your knowledge is very limited. Instead of insulting and insisting on wrong information, be a bit quiet...it starts to be embarrassing here...

 

[stols001]

Yeah sometimes I tune those argumentative folks out.

I think I might have been the one to first call Dripster Drippy. It was good to see the name has stuck.

Holy crud, I just noticed (after becoming a Vaping Master and refusing that title) that I could rename myself Mistress of the Nicotinic Arts, but it is GONE plus all my banners. What gives? Am I not cool anymore and I did not notice?

Bummer. But yeah, Drippy just ends up typing walls of text that are both angry and incoherent (one would say in Spanish El esta muy enohardo, y inchohero (maybe))

So, I kinda tune out. But my point WAS gonna be, I'm a good namer.

Anna

 

[Rossum]

Holy crud, I just noticed (after becoming a Vaping Master and refusing that title) that I could rename myself Mistress of the Nicotinic Arts, but it is GONE plus all my banners. What gives? Am I not cool anymore and I did not notice?

"Mistress" is still there.

But I see no banners.

 

[stols001]

No, now everything is all back.

I have no clue. But, that's fairly typical LOL.

Anna