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Nope, I did 10wraps per coil. 0.212ohm was the true resistance, after factoring in losses in the meter. There was barely any legs on the coils compared to the RM2. This fits with what you get Z, I wrapped two .4ohm coils to get a total resistance of .2. (note: I didn't know what resistance the coils would come out to when wrapping them I was aiming for .45ohm)
Not going to lie, it's a bit much. This was my first experience with the NiChrome80, and I kept breaking the coils when dryburning them (all 7 of them) so as soon as I actually got the coils inplace I did all of my resistance checks and decided to roll with it. This was also my first vape with the Cyclone, so I was anxious to get it going. I will recoil with 1/16th ID tomorrow, which should bring the resistance back up to ~.5. I had no intention on vaping the .2 coil, I just wanted to see some vapor on my new toys. I ran all my resistance and voltage tests, left the door off, and fired away from my face... safety first!
I looked up the trip curve for the fuse and the 10A fuse can handle a 12A load all day, and will blow at 20A in .4sec, which is exactly what I just replicated IRL.
Not going to lie, it's a bit much. This was my first experience with the NiChrome80, and I kept breaking the coils when dryburning them (all 7 of them) so as soon as I actually got the coils inplace I did all of my resistance checks and decided to roll with it. This was also my first vape with the Cyclone, so I was anxious to get it going. I will recoil with 1/16th ID tomorrow, which should bring the resistance back up to ~.5. I had no intention on vaping the .2 coil, I just wanted to see some vapor on my new toys. I ran all my resistance and voltage tests, left the door off, and fired away from my face... safety first!
I looked up the trip curve for the fuse and the 10A fuse can handle a 12A load all day, and will blow at 20A in .4sec, which is exactly what I just replicated IRL.
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Well, you know me. 0.24Ω coils all day. It's about 16 amps, and I have yet to blow a fuse. I might be investing in a Cyclone at some point, but not yet. Sounds to me like NiChrome has trouble carrying its load. My coils are 26G Kanthal D (or A-1), usually wrapped around either my 1.4mm screwdriver, a 1/16" drillbit, or my 2.0mm screwdriver (smallest to largest), and I've never had one pop during a dry burn. Regardless, it's cool to see people experimenting with some other types of wire. I tried ribbon wire for the first time recently (0.6mm twisted) and I wasn't a big fan. Be safe, and have fun!
Edit: I meant a dual coil set-up, like yours - two coils, both 9/10 wraps of 26G wire. Actually, I think my resistance on such a build is even higher than I stated. But, see what TastyKakes said. That explains it.
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You running a 10A? Looking at the chart 16A would blow at 2-3sec, taking a long drag with a fresh batt would get that to pop.
The NiCh80 is softer and the coil will fail (break) easily when dryburning. I wised up and compressed the coil in my pliers and hit it with a torch to tighten the coils up and get rid of hotspots, dryburning and squeezing while in the atty was impossible.
Edit: Yeah 26g NiCh is the equivalent of 24 - 25g Kanthal.
The NiCh80 is softer and the coil will fail (break) easily when dryburning. I wised up and compressed the coil in my pliers and hit it with a torch to tighten the coils up and get rid of hotspots, dryburning and squeezing while in the atty was impossible.
Edit: Yeah 26g NiCh is the equivalent of 24 - 25g Kanthal.
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Good to know: I have 100' of 26awg NiCh60 on order to play around with - yea, 100' is a lot to "just try out" but there was only a $0.20 difference between 50' and 100'.
Worst case scenario, someone here will be receiving a care package lol
Yep, 10A fuse.
My coil building procedure is as follows:
1. Torch wire, let cool
2. Build coils
3. Torch coils, clamp while still hot
4. Attach coils to atomizer
5. Dry burn, check for hotspots
6. Clamp coils, regardless of hotspots
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 three or four times
Writing that made me realize; I've dry burned for at least 8 seconds without having my fuse pop. Are you using the right fuse?
pdib via PM said:
Edit: The link provided in pdib's quote was not actually the link he sent me. They are, however, the correct fuses.
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Yep, the right one for my application (my everyday coils are never less than a 0.42ohm coil). You must be using the full size ATO type, those have a slightly diffferent trip curve. It looks like they can handle ~16A for 10sec (maybe 17A its hard to tell from the resolution of the chart), here's the chart .
I made a fuse holder that takes the mini. The mini has just as fast response time (0.035sec @ 60A) but handles a little less current, ~13A for 10sec. Here's the chart for comparison.
What pdib meant by "no such thing as a standard fuse" is that all the different types (ATO/ATC, mini.. etc.) and the different A ratings have different trip characteristics. We initially were looking into different types of fuses (non-automotive) but then looked into the blade fuses because you can easily pick them up anywhere and it just so happened that they had the right trip curves to fit our needs. There are probably 100's of fuses out there that will work, but I would just caution anyone to really do the research to make sure the short circuit protection will respond quick enough (less than .1sec at the batts rated max peak discharge) while still offering enough head room to vape at your desired amps.
Yep, the right one for my application (my everyday coils are never less than a 0.42ohm coil). You must be using the full size ATO type, those have a slightly diffferent trip curve. It looks like they can handle ~16A for 10sec (maybe 17A its hard to tell from the resolution of the chart), here's the chart .
I made a fuse holder that takes the mini. The mini has just as fast response time (0.035sec @ 60A) but handles a little less current, ~13A for 10sec. Here's the chart for comparison.
What pdib meant by "no such thing as a standard fuse" is that all the different types (ATO/ATC, mini.. etc.) and the different A ratings have different trip characteristics. We initially were looking into different types of fuses (non-automotive) but then looked into the blade fuses because you can easily pick them up anywhere and it just so happened that they had the right trip curves to fit our needs. There are probably 100's of fuses out there that will work, but I would just caution anyone to really do the research to make sure the short circuit protection will respond quick enough (less than .1sec at the batts rated max peak discharge) while still offering enough head room to vape at your desired amps.
Well said. Glad we got all that cleared up.
Fuse Update:
I was playing around with my Cyclone AFC, and I made dual coil 10wrap NiCh80 26awg .055"ID which measured out to 0.21ohms. I figured what the heck, and fired and the 10A fuse popped in like a quarter sec. Re-coiled with dual 12 wraps which measured out to 0.35ohm (which is admittedly very low for me) and now we're right as rain, huge clouds great flavor fast response time.
Who'd a thought... 20A is too much for the 10A fuse
Sure enough.... being the adventurous type I just had to try it for myself. 10 wraps Nichrome 80 26g dual coils did meter out at 0.23Ω and pops 10amp fuses very quickly - a little hot leg and then... nuppin.
I'm right back to my 12wrap duals metering out exactly like yours (SeaNap). I guess I transposed my numbers when I originally logged my results because sure enough 12wrap 26g nichrome 80, 1/16th bit, dual coils come out exactly the same 0.35Ω just like you said. (I had origianally wrote down .53Ω so I really thought there was going to be more resistance)
I went bareback for a day on the 10 wrap but it quickly drains batteries and the vape just wasn't nearly as good as the 12 wrap.
The 12 wrap does a nice job of perfectly filling the air slits on the cyclone AFC and the response time isn't bad. With lung hits it doesn't matter that much anyway. But the flavor is much better. So far the dual 12 wrap Nichrome on the AFC is my favorite setup ADV with tobacco flavored juice. Now that I've re-wrapped fresh coils I'm happy again.
Now.... back on subject. I just did my fuse mod, sorta Mundy style with a different spade type wire terminal. Slightly different because my fuses are the slightly smaller Cooper Bussmann VP/ATM-10-RP. Although smaller the specs are good for our purposes - its a fast blow fuse off the shelf from Oreillys.
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electronics/Resources/product-datasheets/Bus_Elx_DS_OC-2606_ATM_Series.pdf
I used a regular spade terminal and peeled off the insulator at the wire termination point and squished it (the wire termination) flat, which turned out to be a perfect tight fit for the smaller fuse blade. Stuck a small roll of electrical tape under the fuse to take up some slack and make for a perfect fit. I was able to use the stock bottom screw and force-thread the hole in the terminator for a tight mount.
I also made a firing pin from a .012 brass feeler gauge and rolled the tip for my flat top Sonys. (No pics but it looks like others that have done the same thing).
Its really nice to now have more than one mod capable of running my favorite subΩ setup.
Thank you all for providing this information and explaining how to do it with emphasis on safety.
X-Puppy is a happy vapor.
Attachments
Very creative on using the squashed wire crimp side to hold the fuse in X-P! I like your set up, looks almost too easy to do. One thing that I have been doing to help with the contact points is taking a Dremel with the grinding wheel bit and hitting the top and bottom pad (in your case the top folded leg) to try and get it as flat as possible. I have noticed an improvement from my "proof-of-concept" holder (sloppy 1st drafts) when I grind the contact points flat. Also, juice will inevitably get everywhere (it's like sand!) so once a month I sand the flat connections to get the gunk off.
It's very reassuring that the same build on your set up had the exact same resistance and behaved the exact same as what I experienced. Thanks for being curious and sacrificing a little guy for the sake of science!
It's very reassuring that the same build on your set up had the exact same resistance and behaved the exact same as what I experienced. Thanks for being curious and sacrificing a little guy for the sake of science!
Sure enough.... being the adventurous type I just had to try it for myself. 10 wraps Nichrome 80 26g dual coils did meter out at 0.23Ω and pops 10amp fuses very quickly - a little hot leg and then... nuppin.
I'm right back to my 12wrap duals metering out exactly like yours (SeaNap). I guess I transposed my numbers when I originally logged my results because sure enough 12wrap 26g nichrome 80, 1/16th bit, dual coils come out exactly the same 0.35Ω just like you said. (I had origianally wrote down .53Ω so I really thought there was going to be more resistance)
I went bareback for a day on the 10 wrap but it quickly drains batteries and the vape just wasn't nearly as good as the 12 wrap.
The 12 wrap does a nice job of perfectly filling the air slits on the cyclone AFC and the response time isn't bad. With lung hits it doesn't matter that much anyway. But the flavor is much better. So far the dual 12 wrap Nichrome on the AFC is my favorite setup ADV with tobacco flavored juice. Now that I've re-wrapped fresh coils I'm happy again.
Now.... back on subject. I just did my fuse mod, sorta Mundy style with a different spade type wire terminal. Slightly different because my fuses are the slightly smaller Cooper Bussmann VP/ATM-10-RP. Although smaller the specs are good for our purposes - it’s a fast blow fuse off the shelf from O’reilly’s.
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electronics/Resources/product-datasheets/Bus_Elx_DS_OC-2606_ATM_Series.pdf
I used a regular spade terminal and peeled off the insulator at the wire termination point and squished it (the wire termination) flat, which turned out to be a perfect tight fit for the smaller fuse blade. Stuck a small roll of electrical tape under the fuse to take up some slack and make for a perfect fit. I was able to use the stock bottom screw and force-thread the hole in the terminator for a tight mount.
I also made a firing pin from a .012 brass feeler gauge and rolled the tip for my flat top Sony’s. (No pics but it looks like others that have done the same thing).
It’s really nice to now have more than one mod capable of running my favorite subΩ setup.
Thank you all for providing this information and explaining how to do it with emphasis on safety.
X-Puppy is a happy vapor.
zmauls likey.
Thanks for the tip about the sanding. It makes sense to have a little more surface contact area. Combined with pdibs tip about sanding the plating off the positive post before installing the firing pin and maybe sanding a flat spot on the rolled part of the firing pin I should get some pretty decent voltage drop measurements.
It's a beast!
Performance Tool W80526 - Feeler Gauge | O'Reilly Auto Parts
I have been having to file every day with my current setup, going to swing by and pick up these if these would work to cut back on my filing/Nolax routine.
Yeap I used the .012 and was able to cut into shape with kitchen scissors. Make sure the hole for the 510 center pin is a tight fit so you get a good electrical contact.
Brass firing pin with rolled tip for flat tops: Check.
Fuse Mod held in place by spring screw: Check.
Order REO Grand repair kit because you snapped the 510 pin when removing old firing pin: .......*disgruntled* Check
Fuse Mod held in place by spring screw: Check.
Order REO Grand repair kit because you snapped the 510 pin when removing old firing pin
: .......*disgruntled* CheckI feel your pain Greatest...
I'm wondering if Rob puts a little bit of loctite on the nipple, because I only ever tried to undo one and gave up because I felt I was going to break something. Next time I attempt it, (perhaps when the new kits come out) I will put the mod in a vice, protected with cardboard, so I have 2 free hands, one to hold the flat blade screwdriver firmly, and the other to unscrew the nipple. If loctite is used, a bit of heat will soften it, but I don't know yet if loctite (or something similar) is used during initial assembly. Sure feels like it. If not, then Rob just does them up real tight knowing they never really need to come off again. If they ever came loose, the customer would complain, so there's good reason to do them up real tight.
I'm wondering if Rob puts a little bit of loctite on the nipple, because I only ever tried to undo one and gave up because I felt I was going to break something. Next time I attempt it, (perhaps when the new kits come out) I will put the mod in a vice, protected with cardboard, so I have 2 free hands, one to hold the flat blade screwdriver firmly, and the other to unscrew the nipple. If loctite is used, a bit of heat will soften it, but I don't know yet if loctite (or something similar) is used during initial assembly. Sure feels like it. If not, then Rob just does them up real tight knowing they never really need to come off again. If they ever came loose, the customer would complain, so there's good reason to do them up real tight.
There was extreme care being taken to try and remove the nipple without snapping the connection but nevertheless it snapped. I have been able to salvage my work today by connecting the pin in place to what was left of the 510 but I was unable to re attach my 6ml bottle/tube, so now my REO Grand is a dripper....just hope I can get the repair kit in before I head on my trip to SD next weekend....
In another pin head move I got it back together and threw in a battery, popped a fuse, okay old fuse so try a new one and fired, popped again. Hit it with the meter, new fuse no shorts, press the button and metered again fuse popped. Was just about to tear it all the way down to just put on the shelf and wait for the repair kit when I noticed I had thread marks on my brass firing pin from where the delrin insert screw was contacting the brass pin. The tube sleeve on the stock firing pin is there to shield the pin from contacting the delrin insert screw! Most would be like duh.. but in my frustration I had forgotten to replace it when I made the new brass pin.
In another pin head move I got it back together and threw in a battery, popped a fuse, okay old fuse so try a new one and fired, popped again. Hit it with the meter, new fuse no shorts, press the button and metered again fuse popped. Was just about to tear it all the way down to just put on the shelf and wait for the repair kit when I noticed I had thread marks on my brass firing pin from where the delrin insert screw was contacting the brass pin. The tube sleeve on the stock firing pin is there to shield the pin from contacting the delrin insert screw! Most would be like duh.. but in my frustration I had forgotten to replace it when I made the new brass pin.
I was puzzled as to why that sleeve was on there, I could never see what it could short out on. That's because when the delrin cover is off, there is no screw present, now I understand.
From A dz mod
> ....Ok pdib too I could not let myself be bested by myself
, so I read this and immediately thought about using the positive pin from a Kanger T3S head! When I read this it was nearly 3AM so I was forced to wait till daylight to break out the Dremel and get to work. Basically used the grinding bit to create a female connection from the T3S pin to attach to what was left of the original REO 510 pin. Back in bottom feeding bliss
but this is only a means of temporary use until my rebuild kit arrives, which I hope is by Thursday, cause come Friday it wont do me any good since I will have left on my weekend getaway trip to San Diego. I was hoping to have had the upgrade kit in so I could show a couple of Marine Corps. buddies who started vaping what they really should invest in but a "hot rodded REO" along with some links to this community will still suffice.
Rebuilt my Cyclone AFC with a dual 28ga 0.54Ω coil and it is performing better on my REO than on my Nemesis.
Question about the brass firing pin, I have noticed that my pin is not as "springy" as the SS stock one, my pin does not auto fire with either button tops or flat tops but it takes more effort to actually have the mod respond to a button press as well as doesn't feel like the button returns to the rest position with as much force. Is this due to the greater thickness of the brass shim @ .012" vs the SS stock of .007"? Would the brass .010" or .008" be a happier medium? I also recall reading DarkZero mentioning that he believed the original was hardened or tempered which increase the spring response and that would suggest maybe heating up and hammering on the brass shim before cutting to size may help?
Ian444 said:
I have a gun slide tool that does that exact action but does not fit my REO, think I need to head out and buy a table vise....
This sounds like an excellent idea for those more stubborn 510 pins or those of us with only two hands!
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