Still getting harsh throat hit, im running out of ideas.

[Jimmyof76]

I started diy about six weeks ago. All non nicotine mixes. Mostly VG/PG 50/50 or VG/PG 70/30, and a few 80/20 mixes, all non nicotine and most around 20% flavor. Most where good to realy good, with one dud that was orange creamsicle. Im familiar with my base liquids and most of my flavors. I've dripped both my VG and PG solo and they are good to go, very smooth.

I just got some nicotine from wizard labs, so I can mix flavors with nic for my friends at work. Its harsh, unvapable. They like 24mg strength liquid, so I purchased 48mg VG based nicotine to make things easy. Ive been mixing it at half. 5ml per 10ml mix. I've been using all my new recipies that are great without nic, and now they are very harsh. I even starting pulling on the nic juices to test them. The vendor juice they have is very smooth and the diy stuff im making with nicotine is Harsh.

It's something to do with the nicotine. My guess is wizard labs nicotine is harsh or nic juices really need to steep for a month. It has to be one of those two things? I'm going to order a new nic from a different supplier and see how that goes. While I start steeping some nic juices for longer periods of time. But even steeped at one week, these 24mg nic juices that I have mixed with tested recipes, are very harsh.

I may have jumped the gun on this post as im still digging up information. But something is up. Ive read all the old posts and all of Dannys Blogs. Its not the VG PG or Flavorings. Ive been mixing for 6 weeks with tried and true recipes and intorduced Wizard labs nicotine last week and the Harshness hit hard.

The next two tests are, new nic supplier, and 4-6 month steep times. If that doesn't work, something is up lol.

 

[phisbell]

I have noticed a change in flavors that start out great then start to get a strong peppery taste and harshness as they get older. some times in just half of a day. usually means i have put in to much flavor. the scary Truth is the best juice is low flavor percentages that are aged (steeped) for a couple of days,week, or even a month or more.
Most vendors that make fresh concoctions based on what flavors you choose use a quick steeping method to give a good juice as you walk out the door or go to sit in their lounge (ultra sonic jewelry cleaner has been the method for a couple of local brick and mortar stores by me). I did notice that ones I tell them will not be vaped for a few days end up being better than the quick steeped juice after a few weeks.
also find a local diy vape shop that will test your nicotine base to see if it is the strength they say.
Remember to shake the nic in the vg ferociously when you receive the bottle.
If else fails, try different vape equipment.

 

[Art Mustel]

I am very sorry about the issue you have. I've read what others have suggested and have to say, all excellent advices. Just wanted to add my 2 cents (and sorry if you already do or someone else suggested and I missed it). Just do not taste your mix right after you make it but instead put it in a crock pot, low setting (about 140 F) for 3-4 hours (Use glass od LDPE bottje). Add water to the crock pot to equal the level on the bottle.
After this try it, and then check if the following day you find same harshness. If you don't have a crock pot then use just a thermos filled with hot water. This methods are used for accelerating the steep time and they work indeed, but I have also noticed they smooth my mixes which is noticeable right afterwards or even better, the following day. Who knows, maybe the above work for you too! Good luck.

 

[DoubleEwe]

I was having the same issues with my mixes (started November), even the unflavoured mix tasted extremely harsh and felt like I was vaping shards of glass.

First option for reducing the harshness is reducing the wattage you are vaping at, I have found that for whatever reason my mixes require a slightly lower wattage than what I was previously using for bought liquids.

The second thing that removed the harshness was extending the steeping time of my mixes, I now leave all my mixes in the airing cupboard (shaking twice daily) for a month (70%VG mixes).
They lose the harshness before the month is up, but I mainly make custard-y/creamy flavours so they take a while to blend properly.

 

[dannyv45]

I started diy about six weeks ago. All non nicotine mixes. Mostly VG/PG 50/50 or VG/PG 70/30, and a few 80/20 mixes, all non nicotine and most around 20% flavor. Most where good to realy good, with one dud that was orange creamsicle. Im familiar with my base liquids and most of my flavors. I've dripped both my VG and PG solo and they are good to go, very smooth.

I just got some nicotine from wizard labs, so I can mix flavors with nic for my friends at work. Its harsh, unvapable. They like 24mg strength liquid, so I purchased 48mg VG based nicotine to make things easy. Ive been mixing it at half. 5ml per 10ml mix. I've been using all my new recipies that are great without nic, and now they are very harsh. I even starting pulling on the nic juices to test them. The vendor juice they have is very smooth and the diy stuff im making with nicotine is Harsh.

It's something to do with the nicotine. My guess is wizard labs nicotine is harsh or nic juices really need to steep for a month. It has to be one of those two things? I'm going to order a new nic from a different supplier and see how that goes. While I start steeping some nic juices for longer periods of time. But even steeped at one week, these 24mg nic juices that I have mixed with tested recipes, are very harsh.

I may have jumped the gun on this post as im still digging up information. But something is up. Ive read all the old posts and all of Dannys Blogs. Its not the VG PG or Flavorings. Ive been mixing for 6 weeks with tried and true recipes and intorduced Wizard labs nicotine last week and the Harshness hit hard.

The next two tests are, new nic supplier, and 4-6 month steep times. If that doesn't work, something is up lol.

Have you let your friends at work try the mixes. If you never vaped with NIC it's no suprize that you sence it's harsh. That's the nature of NIC. So the real question is. Is it harsh just to you or is it harsh to someone that is used to vaping with NIC. So before you invest in NIC from other sources get a second opinion from a person that is used to vaping with NIC. It may just be that your NIC level needs to be lowered or the NIC really is harsher then normal. But you really need an opinion from a person that has vaped that strength for some time. I wrote a blog that may help you adjust your base for harshness but it will not be helpful until you know exactly how it should taste. There are many factors at play here. Your friends vaping devices or delivery systems may deliver a smoother vape then what you vape with. The juices that they vape may be a completely different profile or make up then what your doing. The NIC strength or quality may be totally different then what your using and may react differently to different voltages and wattages.

Also No juice needs to steep for 4 - 6 months so I suggest you also read my blog on steeping.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...base-reduce-peppery-harsh-nicotine-taste.html

 

[Jimmyof76]

Have you let your friends at work try the mixes. If you never vaped with NIC it's no suprize that you sence it's harsh. That's the nature of NIC. So the real question is. Is it harsh just to you or is it harsh to someone that is used to vaping with NIC. So before you invest in NIC from other sources get a second opinion from a person that is used to vaping with NIC. It may just be that your NIC level needs to be lowered or the NIC really is harsher then normal. But you really need an opinion from a person that has vaped that strength for some time. I wrote a blog that may help you adjust your base for harshness but it will not be helpful until you know exactly how it should taste. There are many factors at play here. Your friends vaping devices or delivery systems may deliver a smoother vape then what you vape with. The juices that they vape may be a completely different profile or make up then what your doing. The NIC strength or quality may be totally different then what your using and may react differently to different voltages and wattages.

Also No juice needs to steep for 4 - 6 months so I suggest you also read my blog on steeping.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...base-reduce-peppery-harsh-nicotine-taste.html

Hello Danny, thatnks for the reply. I did read all your blogs. The 4-6 months I mentioned was a typo, I meant to write 4-6 weeks.

I totally understand That nic juice would be harsh to a non nic vaper, and yes I have had my friends try my juice. The thing is I have also tried a few of their Vendor 24mg nic juices and they are very smooth to me and them. The diy stuff I am making is very harsh to all 4 of us. With their vendor juices at 24mg nic. Vaped on their ego sticks I can take a hard 10 second pull till the battery automatically shuts off. All 4 of us can puff the vendor 24mg nic juice for 10 seconds. None of us can hit the 24mg nic diy juice I made for more then one second without caughing.

So yes I have vaped Vendor 24mg nic juice and it is very smooth.
Three people plus myself have tried my 24mg nic juices, and my stuff is way to harsh.

Some folks are still hinting that it could be my flavorings and or my percentage of flavoring used. All my recipes are really good without my nic. Unvapable with my nic. So here is what Im going to do. I'll mix up a batch of 24mg nic strength unflavored juice at 70/30 pg ratios. If its just as harsh as the ones with flavoring, then its for sure my nic. I know its my nic. I've read every closed and open post pertaining to harsh diy juice after nic is added. Every points at the VG or PG, then the flavorings, and after that the flavoring percentages. My problem has something to do with the nicotine I've purchased. I've troubleshot in every possible way, its the nic.

Its either Wizard labs nic is harsh?
Or maybe I have gotten a bad batch of nic?
Or Nic juices really need to steep for 4-6 weeks?

Right after this post im going to make 3 test juices. Everything I've been making was around 20% flavoring, and people are saying thats high for nic juices. So ill make a 24mg nic vg70/pg30 at 10% flavoring. Then one at 5% flavoring and then one at 0% flavoring, just VG PG and 24mg nic. If they are all the same harshness then it has to be the nic? Am I crazy lol.

I feel like Ive seriously zeroed this down to the nicotine being the problem. Once we all agree its the nic, then we can try and find out whats wrong with my nic. I wont buy new nic till I steep some 24mg nic juices for 4 weeks. If its still harsh then Ill try a couple or few more nic vendors.

 

[Jimmyof76]

Hello again, and thanks for listening =). I just mixed 5ml of 70vg/30pg, 24mg nicotine strength with no flavorings, and the stuff is poison lol. You cant even pull on it for 1 second. Just like every other nic mix I've made with flavorings. I just dripped my PG solo and its damn smooth. Ive dripped my VG solo many times and its very smooth. I've narrowed it down to the nicotine.

From what I've read most people have no problems with wizard labs nicotine, but every now and again I hear someone say it's harsh. Maybe they are inconsistent? maybe I got a bad batch? There is something up with my nicotine.

Im scared to mix nicotine juices now. I don't want to keep wasting money on flavorings. Im going to have to steep some juices for 4-6 weeks and then retest them before I can start mixing nic juices again for my friends at work. =(.

I know steeping helps, ecspecially if the juices have nicotine in them. I've read not to heat steep your Nicotine juices because nicotine hates heat. The heat can degrade the nicotine, and possibly increase it the harshness Im trying to get rid of? So I plan on just steeping them in a dark area at room temperature. I have a bad feeling that needing to steep my juice is not the issue though. We will find out in 4 weeks though =).

My base nic strength is proper @ 48mg strength

My mix is propper at 50% for 24mg strength juice

Ive shaken the nic juice many times

Ive tested my PG and VG solo and they are smooth

Ive mixed a 70vg/30pg 24mg nic with no flavoring and it is very harsh.

Ive vapped three different Vendor 24mg strength nics that where all damn smooth.

Ive had other seasoned vapers try my nic juice they all say something is wrong.

They last thing I can think of is a 4-6 week steep time. Please please tell me if you can think of any other test I can run to figure this out. It sucks that I cant make nic juices atm, but I do enjoy a good mystery. I know its the nicotine =)

 

[Art Mustel]

I don't think controlled heat will ruin your nicotine, you can just make an small sample and try for yourself. There are so many controversial opinions about stuff that if you follow all them you will stand in the middle without trying anything.

Also, did you say you vape 24mg? Why don't you try to make it at 12 and see what happens? A curious thing I've noticed about SOME commercial e-liquids is their Nicotine level seems to be lower than advertised.

And finally, you may have a higher than 48% compound. rare mistake but could happen; try an small purchase from a different vendor and hope for the best.

 

[Rickajho]

My hardware is a Manhattan mod, 38 amp imeran battery, mutation x v2 atty with 20 gauge, dual coil running at .07 ohms.

You're practically trying to vape on a dead short. What kind of meter do you have that can give you an accurate reading at 0.07 ohms?

At those alleged resistances there is no room for fudging. How do you know your build is not actually 0.018 ohms at this point? I would be rethinking that build first before I was trying to 'fix' my DIY as the solution.

 

[Art Mustel]

You're practically trying to vape on a dead short. What kind of meter do you have that can give you an accurate reading at 0.07 ohms?

At those alleged resistances there is no room for fudging. How do you know your build is not actually 0.018 ohms at this point? I would be rethinking that build first before I was trying to 'fix' my DIY as the solution.

very true! Unless OP meant 0.7 ohms...

 

[dannyv45]

There's a few things you need to do then. As mentioned that ohm reading on you coil is very low and likely burning your base as it seems to me to be way to hot. If that's what you've been using then it's up to you if you want to adjust to a higher ohm. I myself don't like subohm because of the fact that there way to hot for my vaping devices. but again that's a personal preference. But to hot of a coil will produce a harshness.

You seem to have followed my blog on taming a harsh base as far as testing so at this point I think you've correctly identified the NIC as harsher then ususal. There are a couple of things you can do. You can continue on with the second part of my blog and lower the NIC level and adjust the VG concentration until the taste is acceptable OR start buying NIC from different venders in the smallest amounts they carry until you find something more suited to your taste. Then use my advice in the blog to fine tune the NIC base and once you've perfected your base you can move on to flavoring. Remember that base formulating, amount of flavoring and device setup in that order all make a huge difference in taste.

 

[Jimmyof76]

There's a few things you need to do then. As mentioned that ohm reading on you coil is very low and likely burning your base as it seems to me to be way to hot. If that's what you've been using then it's up to you if you want to adjust to a higher ohm. I myself don't like subohm because of the fact that there way to hot for my vaping devices. but again that's a personal preference. But to hot of a coil will produce a harshness.

You seem to have followed my blog on taming a harsh base as far as testing so at this point I think you've correctly identified the NIC as harsher then ususal. There are a couple of things you can do. You can continue on with the second part of my blog and lower the NIC level and adjust the VG concentration until the taste is acceptable OR start buying NIC from different venders in the smallest amounts they carry until you find something more suited to your taste. Then use my advice in the blog to fine tune the NIC base and once you've perfected your base you can move on to flavoring. Remember that base formulating, amount of flavoring and device setup in that order all make a huge difference in taste.

Im not the OP, and the lowest ohm coil I've built was a .25 ohm on my Darkhourse and that is just to blow clouds. I rarely drip flavored juices into the darkhourse, and I will never put nic in that thing lol. I sorta just hijacked this thread because it's basically the same thing I am talking about. I read all the old closed threads, and this is the first one I found open. I was going to start my own post but I wasn't sure if that was proper forum rules.

The coils I have been testing on are a .7 clapton in my Lemo tank. My friend has a Kanger mini protank 3 with a 2.0 ohm coil, and my other friend has a Kanger areo 2 with the 1.8 coil in it. All three seem to be the same harshness when vaping my diy 24mg nic juice. We also ran Vendor eGo Bubble gum 24mg nic in all our tanks, and they where all similarly smooth. All three of us can pull on the eGo bubble gum 24mg nic juice for 10 seconds. None of us can pull on my DIY 70vg/30pg non flavored 24mg diy juice for more then one second.

I have been testing testing and retesting. Its the nic. I just want to find out what wrong and where to get the best in market nicotine. Im willing to pay 4 times the cost of wizard labs if necessary.

Im also willing to make some 10ml bottles of my nic solution and send them out free of charge to anyone who would be willing or wants to test it.

Could it be possible that a lot of vendor juices are much lower in strength then advertised. This is another theory that is popping into my head.

 

[Jimmyof76]

I live in Las Vegas. I am heading to DIY flavor shack and Grabbing some NIcotine right now. They close at 7 i hope I make it lol. I can test some more tonight lol

 

[Art Mustel]

Could it be possible that a lot of vendor juices are much lower in strength then advertised. This is another theory that is popping into my head.[/QUOTE]

I mentioned that above but you may have missed it

 

[Jimmyof76]

I mentioned that above but you may have missed it

I did read it, but i was sceptical, but now I'm stating to think so. I did go to DIY flavor shack and bought a 60ml 48mg strength nicotine vg base to test out. While I was there I tried a DIY shack raspberry 26mg strength juice and it was killer harsh. I came home, mixed a 5ml 70vg/30pg unflavored @ 24mg strength. Then cleaned out my Lemo, rewicked, primed, filled and vaped. It was damn harsh. Im getting about a 1 and a half second pull compared to my 1 second pull on the wizard labs nic. I would have to say the DIY Nic is a tiny bit smoother, but they are still in the same ballpark of harshness. Im starting to lean towards some vendor nic juices are lower strength then advertised.

I also just made 70vg/30pg at 12mg nic strength with 5% capella double ry4. I used the nic I just purchased from DIY shack. Im going to re clean and wick my lemo. Then ad half the juice and test it out. The other 2.5ml will be dated and steeped for at least 4 months so I can retest it later. One of these days Ill figure out exactly whats going on =).

 

[doucetr64]

The first thing I do when I get new brand of nicotine is mix a small batch at 18mg 50/50 and try it out unflavored. Nicotine characteristics vary greatly between suppliers and even batches from the same supplier. Some have a lot of "pepper", others high TH, some have very strong taste (and odor). Out of 8 different brands I got, I only like one, two others are OK and the rest I can't use. One just taste horrible.

It also do a nicotine test to make sure it's within a percent or so of what its supposed to be. I've gotten 48mg from two different suppliers that where well below 36mg.

I made my own test kit using nothing more than distilled water, vinegar and pH test liquid (from my fish tank water testing kit). Not as accurate as buying calibrated testing acid but it does the trick and is super cheap.

 

[Art Mustel]

The first thing I do when I get new brand of nicotine is mix a small batch at 18mg 50/50 and try it out unflavored. Nicotine characteristics vary greatly between suppliers and even batches from the same supplier. Some have a lot of "pepper", others high TH, some have very strong taste (and odor). Out of 8 different brands I got, I only like one, two others are OK and the rest I can't use. One just taste horrible.

It also do a nicotine test to make sure it's within a percent or so of what its supposed to be. I've gotten 48mg from two different suppliers that where well below 36mg.

I made my own test kit using nothing more than distilled water, vinegar and pH test liquid (from my fish tank water testing kit). Not as accurate as buying calibrated testing acid but it does the trick and is super cheap.

Hi doucetr64, can you describe this method of testing?

 

[doucetr64]

Hi doucetr64, can you describe this method of testing?

Some info on testing here https://www.nikitest.com/e-liquid-nicotine-test-lab/e-liquid_test_kit_works/

Basically you use acid to neutralize the nicotine, the amount of acid use is proportional to the amount of nic in the sample being tested.

Say I have 0.1N acid ( which can be made by adding 12ml of 5% vinegar in 100ml of distilled water). I put 1 ml of " supposed" 18mg /ml juice in a test vial. I then added 2 ml of distilled water to the vial and 4-5 drops of pH test liquid (6 - 7.2, can be found at most pet store that carry fish). The solution will be blue. Slowly add the acid; it will turn green then yellow. When it turns yellow, stop. Multiply the amount of acid used by 16.22. That is the amount of nic in the vial. The more nicotine you test the more accurate the result.

This test method was developed by DVAP, all credits goes to him. Search this forum for more information.

Note that 16.22 is used above is because my acid is 0.1N and not 0.12N.

 

[dannyv45]

Could it be possible that a lot of vendor juices are much lower in strength then advertised. This is another theory that is popping into my head.

I actually was thinking about that last night. As there is no way to really test NIC after it's been mixed that would be a very good question and one that makes me wonder.

 

[dannyv45]

Some info on testing here https://www.nikitest.com/e-liquid-nicotine-test-lab/e-liquid_test_kit_works/

18mg /ml juice in a test vial.

This test method was developed by DVAP, all credits goes to him. Search this forum for more information.

Note that 16.22 is used above is because my acid is 0.1N and not 0.12N.

Are you doing this with an already mixed juice or just the raw nicotine solution? You should be doing this with the nicotine solution as it comes right from venders shipped bottle. Any other way and your test is flawed as added flavorings or any other outside influences such as water, VG, PG will skew the actual results.