Stocking up...storage in particular.

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AttyPops

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Hey all.

OK, so maybe the sky IS really starting to fall. If you happened to read some of my posts in other threads you know that I'm recently starting to stock up on nic-base. This was even before the recent ?rumor? about the FDA internet ban.

I haven't worried about it much until lately. Something about BT getting into the expensive carto refill game everywhere just set my spidey sense off. And now this FDA thing (predicted for years, but not confirmed/rumored until now.) Anyway...

I'm short on glass bottles. The juice I've ordered is in plastic. I order 120 ml at a time of 100 mg. Blue plastic bottles from Stormy's... this last time. I do have a 250 ml brown glass bottle from another vendor (M.F.S) that I mix in...I pour the 100 mg into it and top it off with an equal amount of PG so I "store" my nic base of 50 mg strength in a 250 ml bottle.

That's fine for one-at-a-time mixing like I've been doing over the years. But now I'm looking at long term storage options for larger quantities. I have one 120 ml 100 mg blue bottle in the freezer wrapped in a freezer bag. IDK if it will hold up well...

Searching other threads shows that people like the brown glass bottles and freezing the nic for long term storage.

Do you purchase all your nic in brown glass? Do you buy empty brown glass and x-fer it? Maybe I shouldn't worry about it?

I have a year's supply right now. But if the "deeming regulation" actually hits, despite our efforts, I would like more nic base in storage. I know many have researched this. I found this post/thread to be very helpful:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...an-you-store-100mg-nicotine.html#post10200134

I'm sooooo torqued off that I may have to spend $$$$$$$$ on expensive glass bottles because the FDA has it's head up it's posterior.

So my current assumptions are:
1) I need to use a vendor that provides brown glass bottles -or-
2) buy empty brown glass bottles and x-fer what I have -or-
3) risk it.

OTOH some people in that same thread and other threads have said they have 3 year old juice and it's fine (but didn't say what bottle).

Do I risk it and just store the blue plastic bottle in a freezer bag wrapped in a paper bag in the freezer?
 
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Moogle

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Here's a vendor for Amber glass bottles (shipping can be steep, so shop around). I'm always looking for a good supplier with reasonable shipping as I want to get another liter of 100mg/ml going by the end of the year.

2 oz Amber Boston Round With Cone Caps

I went through to checkout here and they have free UPS ground - 12 2oz boston amber round for 11$ - (8 2oz stored 500ml for me)

I believe that 3 years frozen is confirmed and 5 year or more is possbile. Amber glass with poly seal caps. I use teflon tape on the threads and then into the freezer bag.

I'm also interested in this topic. That's my :2c: Bump!
 

Moogle

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lol.

We're all thinking about it.......

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-do-you-transfer-new-juice-glass-bottles.html
The debate rages on......

If Wizard Labs and other vendors suggest you transfer to Amber glass for long term storage there is no debate as far as I'm concerned. There has to be some kind of authority on these subjects to make a statement about them. I recently posted advice to an Op about Nicotine base where I repeated that the Nicotine can settle in the base in pockets and you can get varying concentrations. I was corrected immediately by someone who had called and talked to someone at Wizard Labs who said it wasn't true. Got to be careful about what you believe and repeat lest you spread mis-information. If you really want peace of mind, call or e-mail a vendor.
 

mrcoolbp

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Colored smaller 50ml-120ml glass is recommended for breaking down large orders of nic for long-term storage (1-year or longer I'd say). It's an investment for a touch of piece of mind and long-term savings. Those 2oz bottles look like the way to go there, but I'd store it in 100mg full strength in those.

Note: Specialty Bottles comes with paper-lined caps and does not include the poly-seal caps automatically (but I've heard you can special request them) so I had to order these separate. The Wholesale Lials link appears to include these caps (which are recommended for long-term freezer storage) and has free shipping? I'd go with Wholesale Vials if I were to do it again...
 

mrcoolbp

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If Wizard Labs and other vendors suggest you transfer to Amber glass for long term storage there is no debate as far as I'm concerned. There has to be some kind of authority on these subjects to make a statement about them...

Read a lot on here from various people that are professional chemists and this is the consensus. Amber glass with little headspace, proper seal, and cold environment and you have the best chances. Smaller separate bottles (that you would use for a month or three) and let these come all the way to room temp before opening from the freezer. 2+ years and your base should be quite stable. This is based on some testing, knowledge of chemistry, experience etc.
 

Moogle

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Read a lot on here from various people that are professional chemists and this is the consensus. Amber glass with little headspace, proper seal, and cold environment and you have the best chances. Smaller separate bottles (that you would use for a month or three) and let these come all the way to room temp before opening from the freezer. 2+ years and your base should be quite stable. This is based on some testing, knowledge of chemistry, experience etc.

I'm hoping we can get more than 2 years though :vapor:
 

Moogle

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Colored smaller 50ml-120ml glass is recommended for breaking down large orders of nic for long-term storage (1-year or longer I'd say). It's an investment for a touch of piece of mind and long-term savings. Those 2oz bottles look like the way to go there, but I'd store it in 100mg full strength in those.

Note: Specialty Bottles comes with paper-lined caps and does not include the poly-seal caps automatically (but I've heard you can special request them) so I had to order these separate. The Wholesale Lials link appears to include these caps (which are recommended for long-term freezer storage) and has free shipping? I'd go with Wholesale Vials if I were to do it again...

Exactly. Then thaw and dilute. One 2oz bottle has a bit more than 2oz. Got 63 ml of 100 mg/ml per bottle. Then I dilute that down to 48 mg/ml and it lasts about 12-14 weeks.
 
I stocked up too due to the FDA scare a few months back. I got my amber glass bottles with phenolic lids on Amazon. I did get the larger ones (8 bottles at 8 oz each) so I would have less initial mixing with the VG using the 100 mg/ml because it scares me. I want to store it as 50 mg/ml. If I ever need to use it I'll break it down into smaller portions then. I also bought a cheap plastic storage box to put all the bubble-wrapped bottles in so I can safely keep it in the back of the freezer since I have a 13 year old boy. And since he is a growing bottomless pit and I can't keep him fed it seems, I have a lot of food in my freezer and can't afford to lose any more space. I figure with the amount of nic base I have now, and slowly decreasing my nic, this should last me years.

All that is left is to actually split it all up in the bottles and get 'er done which I will be doing tomorrow. I've been putting it off. :facepalm: I also read that the bottles should be sterilized so I'll be dunking them in boiling water first.

:vapor:
 

mrcoolbp

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I'm hoping we can get more than 2 years though :vapor:

Oh I have every confidence you can. dVap tested how much degrades and even under very poor conditions and nic degradation was so minimal it nearly fell within his error margins. I think I read elsewhere that you might lose 1 mg/ml/month or two under normal room-temp conditions. If you want extreme preservation, RobertNC mentions trying to purge oxygen from the container using inert helium:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/robertnc/3595-stockpiling-essentials-part-1.html

Check out both parts 1 and 2 for safe handling procedures and effective long-term storage tips. Not that I think all of it is necessary, it's cool to see his thinking, and it's just how much effort you want to put in.
 

Wow1420

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I bought brown glass for storage because it was easier to find than clear or blue, but from what I understand the glass color doesn't matter as long as you are storing it in a dark place. I got 4 oz (~120ml) size as a compromise on size vs. storage space used. Each bottle is in a bubble wrap (scavenged from incoming orders) and then put in freezer storage bags. As I use it, I'll pull out a bottle at a time and dilute to working concentrations, maybe at that stage I should transfer into smaller bottles and store most back in the freezer.
 

Cavediver

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120ml amber bottles, a couple of 60ml amber bottles, and a bunch of 30ml bottles, all from WL since I'm already ordering from them and paying shipping. I'm storing & freezing 100mg in the 120s. I'll break a bottle out, split it into a 60 (full, back into the freezer), and (4) 30ml bottles with additional PG to make a 50% solution for final mixing.

Final mixes are in plastic right now, but will soon be in blue glass 15 & 30ml dropper bottles.

Specialty bottle has good prices, but their shipping is a little high. If I were buying a bunch of bottles at one time, I'd be happy to call them up to make sure I got the poly cone caps, and eat the (one time) higher shipping cost. Other places have them for less, but it can be tough to find out if they have the correct caps or not...
 

mrcoolbp

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120ml amber bottles, a couple of 60ml amber bottles, and a bunch of 30ml bottles, all from WL since I'm already ordering from them and paying shipping. I'm storing & freezing 100mg in the 120s. I'll break a bottle out, split it into a 60 (full, back into the freezer), and (4) 30ml bottles with additional PG to make a 50% solution for final mixing.

Final mixes are in plastic right now, but will soon be in blue glass 15 & 30ml dropper bottles.

Specialty bottle has good prices, but their shipping is a little high. If I were buying a bunch of bottles at one time, I'd be happy to call them up to make sure I got the poly cone caps, and eat the (one time) higher shipping cost. Other places have them for less, but it can be tough to find out if they have the correct caps or not...

Well, when you get into DIY, you'll need more bottles than you think. Glass is good for storage, but I don't like dispensing/transferring from dropper-tops for anything over a few ml. Plastic works well for small quantities of finished juice. Something to consider and i recommend having some of each in different sizes. If getting a larger glass order compare "wholesale vials" with "specialty bottles" for price+shipping on the quantity you need (get extras).

Also as mentioned, look for the poly-cone caps (or ask about them from retailer) for long-term nic storage.

Edit: my favorite bottles are: 120ml glass w/ poly caps for freezer-bound 100mg nic, 250ml for 36mg working nic-base and PGVG blend (still want a larger mouth bottles for full syringe access though), 120ml plastic bottles with twist-to open/close squeeze spout for mixing into and storing/dispensing finished juice, and 15ml needle tip bottles for filling tanks/cartos/clearos/dripping. I also sell 30ml plastic droppers for $5 to friends (which coat me about $1) just to help cover costs and because they love my DIY.
 
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DVap

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Here's something I want everybody to consider about storage of eliquids.

Let's say you bought some DIY nicotine at 100 mg/mL in PG, and let's also say that this is the cleanest nicotine you could get... clear, no color, absolutely pure. So you DIY mix it down to 12 mg/mL and vape it.

The moment you fire up that atty and vaporize that nice pure nicotine, it's going to oxidize considerably. You "age" that nicotine more than years of storage ever could before it ever hits your mouth.

Oh I have every confidence you can. dVap tested how much degrades and even under very poor conditions and nic degradation was so minimal it nearly fell within his error margins. I think I read elsewhere that you might lose 1 mg/ml/month or two under normal room-temp conditions. If you want extreme preservation, RobertNC mentions trying to purge oxygen from the container using inert helium:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/robertnc/3595-stockpiling-essentials-part-1.html

Check out both parts 1 and 2 for safe handling procedures and effective long-term storage tips. Not that I think all of it is necessary, it's cool to see his thinking, and it's just how much effort you want to put in.
 

AttyPops

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That's a really good point DVap.

However, consider that also you're started with fresh nic in your example. So if after 3 years it's 90 mg/ml, and you cut it like it was really 100 mg, your juice is off.

So basically, you're saying people who do long term storage of nic would benefit from an accurate nic-test kit.

Me....After the 1st 30 ml bottle I mix isn't strong enough, I'll just mix it a bit stronger next time. :)

So I guess the question is ...."how degraded is degraded?"
 

Bob Chill

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I have a liter of 100mg that I'm going to break up into 120's and seal with phenolic poly caps. Should I use plumbers tape on the threads or not worry about it because of the cap type? With the cone inside the cap, how close to the lip of the bottle can I get before I run the risk of pushing some out as I screw the cap?
 
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