Stop getting ripped off!!!

[Nic-holio]

That shot of the Ultrafires is disturbing. 6 different cells? I guess whatever is in the bargain bin gets sold.

After my weekend of researching batteries I made a new rule for myself: On general principle I will not buy ANY Lithium Ion battery containing the string "fire" in its name.

Maybe the problem with *fire IS genuine vs. fake, rather than the QC being hit and miss. I don't know. But if I don't mess with them then I don't have to worry about it.

To the other poster asking about perf tests on the AW's - there IS reliable testing data on the AW IMR's, there are very detailed posts here in the forums with colorful bar charts and everything. The quip about colorful bar charts was just for humor. There actually were tests performed at different discharge rates, etc.

I won't say nobody else makes a better battery, or that nobody else makes good hi-drain batteries, or that IMR type are the only ones you should use. Sorry if my previous post came across that way. I had an intended use in mind -- Provari in my immediate future and also a JoyeTech 18650 mod I planned to use a super low resistance carto on until I get the Provari. Provape only recommends using hi-drain type cells in the Provari, with the exception of a ?short-lived? model they had called the Provari Power 2500, which was a protected battery but the cells and the protection circuit in it were rated for the current discharge rate the Provari needs for its boost circuit to function properly.

On the other hand there were multiple people in the Provape forum here saying (more or less) "you don't have to buy AW's or high-drain batteries - I use blah blah brand protected and it works fine". I was willing to investigate this, and initially attracted to the higher mAh rating of some of the protected cells and strongly considering buying AW protected cells instead, or one of the other reputable brands. What's wrong with longer usage time? So then I started reading those 18650 perf tests, reviews on some of the other brands of protected cells, and finally re-read what Provape had to say for their full technical explanation of why the Provari needs a high-drain cell.

I had already read the reports of the then-latest mod explosion and spent a lot of time chasing down battery safety issues.

So for MY specific application/intended use, I chose the AW IMR's as the safest and most appropriate cells, and bought them with a Pila IBC from a highly reputable vendor (Provape). I'd have liked to buy them from Super T where they were $3 cheaper each and also highly reputable, especially since I was planning to order a couple of their highly-polished stainless 510 widemouth T-tip's, but they were out of stock on the 2000's and my JoyeTech 18650 mod was on the way.

 

[sweetz]

So now, after reading all this, I sit staring at two Ultrafire 16340 880mAh batteries bought from ebay, unwilling to put them that close to my face and push the button. Dangit! Foiled again by my bargain-shopping ways!

I really (naively) expected them to be just as good. They seemed fine, my mod worked just the same with them...but I am fond of my face.

Luckily, the AW IMR batteries I had already are now very pretty. Just going to have to go find another set. And find a use for these blue nightmare batteries that now mock me.

 

[Barto]

I was peruseing the net one day and i came apon site that was selling a pack of 2(18650) 3600mAh batterys and a charger that was able to chare cr123a's for... wait for it... $9. I also bought 2(cr123a) my grand total was $14.11 with free shipping. All i am saying is dont get boged down with one perticullar site, or set of sites. If i were to by that same set up elsewhere i would have paid at least three times that. IDK if its kosher for me as a memeber of this forum to put the website but just look around.

Good stuff. Thanks for the advice man!

 

[KeithB]

Personally, I wouldn't touch these batteries. They don't say they're protected. They don't appear to be protected ( No waffle look to the bottom). I don't think they are protected. You'd be counting solely on your charger to no overcharge them. You'd be counting only on you self to not over-discharge them. Both those can be a recipe for disaster. Sure, the PCBs on protected batteries may fail, but I'll take every bit of help I can get.

After reading about the last couple stories of exploding mods, my next set of batteries will likely be AW. At some point in the near future, I'll be adding fuses to my mods. I've done a lot of reading on batteries and battery safety here, at BatteryUniversity.com and the CPF to try and understand what I can do to minimize my chances of catastrophic battery failure and would not take the risk with these batteries.

As far as the reference to cell phones using unprotected batteries, First, they probably do have protection circuits either in the battery or the phone itself. Second, they don't draw the kind of current that a lot of mods do; I draw 2.5 amps with my setup. Third, cell phone batteries can and do explode, just like mods, just like laptops, just like mp3 players and just like everything else that uses Li-ion batteries.

If you must use these batteries (and I wouldn't ever suggest you do so), please use a meter on them and check the voltages on them religiously both before and after charging. Not sure what you're looking for? Don't use them at all.

 

[zoiDman]

There's an Old Saying.

"If something seems to Good to be True, It Probably Isn't"

I tend to think about this when shopping on the Internet. Sure, I love a Bargin and a Good Deal. But when it coms to e-Cig stuff like Batteries and Chargers, sometimes it pays to spend a little more.

I've had much Better Luck buying form ECF Suppliers and spending 2 or 3 Dollars more than from Random Web sites.

 

[Pet Whisperer]

what do you all suggest for a 5v regulated mod? My local shop recommended either 2 protected 16340 3.7V 880 mah or 2 AW IMR 16340 3.7v 550mah.

This will be my 1st mod and I'm looking for advice on batteries. Thanks in advance!!

 

[martinc]

The ultrafire BRC on that site are protected

 

[apollyon]

they are protected batterys

 

[evosil98]

Lets hope that it is. Many counterfeit out there. Good luck and happy vaping

 

[WillyB]

Willy,
thanks for the update on the new technology.

That shot of the Ultrafires is disturbing. 6 different cells? I guess whatever is in the bargain bin gets sold.
I've had about 60 of those over the past 3 years and have seen some variation but only a couple that just didn't perform well. No venting, gut spilling, just low performing and into the recycle bin.

Leave it to you to drag up real data. Thanks for the effort.

There was another post somewhere but I can't find it. That guy actually had pics that showed where solder tabs had been originally attached. With the Big Red I've seen some decent tests as well as poor ones, I think that is the reason, what's in it. The 'official' cell seems to have a thin white wrapper under the red one.

Here's an older test of two cells.

Red is at 1A and green is at 3A. Let's use 3.2V for our cut-off (it's easier). They look pretty much identical for all amp loads. The top is the black AW2600 Li-Ion, bottom is the UltraFire3000 Big Red. But is that an 'official' Big Red?

But then there is this older 2A test.

Ouch! Here the AW2600 (black trace) demolishes the UF3000 (brown trace).

Folks shoud also note the Panasonic2900 trace (cyan and the same cell that's in the AW2900) is always a middling performer. For vapers the AW2600 seems like a better choice. If we again look at 3.2V we see no advantage to the extra rated mAh, and we see a a deeper voltage sag.

 

[Rocketman]

I got mine a while back, usually in groups of 12. When I stripped some to make that flashlight pack it took 16 to get 12 that were fairly good performers. With all the stuff that is going on now with counterfeits I don't think I will be getting more.
Still have a couple dozen :
I never though anything over two amps would work with the Big Red (the protection board trips a little over 2.5 anyway).

I've also gone to tabbed cells and add the protection board "no user serviceable parts inside" concept (less human contact with the cell). The tenergy 2600 tabbed cells you steered me to, work well and were cheaper than the Sanyo tabbed cells. Thanks for the heads up friend.

Now find me some curves on my 38120 LiFePO4 Tenergy cells

Thanks again.

 

[stephpd]

I was peruseing the net one day and i came apon site that was selling a pack of 2(18650) 3600mAh batterys and a charger that was able to chare cr123a's for... wait for it... $9. I also bought 2(cr123a) my grand total was $14.11 with free shipping. All i am saying is dont get boged down with one perticullar site, or set of sites. If i were to by that same set up elsewhere i would have paid at least three times that. IDK if its kosher for me as a memeber of this forum to put the website but just look around.

3600 mAh battery?
That should be the first clue it's a fake.

From what I've seen 3100 mAh is the top of the line. Lots of the Ultrafire and Trustfire batteries tested never come close to the rating on the battery. And 'cheap' ones almost never live up to expectations.

You say they are protected because that's what the ad says? Just like it says they're 3600 mAh batteries?

Maybe you'll luck out and actually get a battery that doesn't even exist, but I doubt it.

Want to talk again about getting ripped off?
Caveat emptor!!!!!!!

 

[Rocketman]

As bad as the Big Red 3000mah cell are the black 3600mah cell is actually worse.
I vaped them a couple of times (single cell mod) and they were the weakest cell I have ever tried.

Inflating the mah is one thing, but these don't work well for vaping.

 

[stephpd]

As bad as the Big Red cells 3000mah are the black 3600mah cell is actually worse.
I vaped them a couple of times (single cell mod) and they were the weakest cell I have ever tried.

Inflating the mah is one thing, but these don't work well for vaping.

The ones he bought aren't even one of the standard colors; (they're Blue with white and red stripes)
http://www.tmart.com/37V-3600mAh-UltraFire-18650-Liion-Rechargeable-Battery-Blue_p138441.html

Two 'high' amp batteries cheaper then many of the lower amperage batteries on the site should give you a clue.
http://www.tmart.com/search.html?new_add_order=3&layout=grid&q=18650+battery

 

[Rocketman]

Ha, I hadn't seen those.
Don't you just love all the color changes.
When the Chinese advertise something that just sounds so sweet, hesitate.
and when they use a U.S. IP address, and it ships from China question it.

and when a U.S. seller repeats the HYPE, avoid them.

apollyon,

Double check those 18650 to make darn sure they are really protected (that a big scam now).
and don't put them to severe usage like Low Resistance. They will probably work, just not up to the standard of better cells. My 3600mah cells were about 2000mah, and voltage sag was more than any other 18650 cell I have. They gave me much shorter vape times because the voltage fell off faster.

 

[stephpd]

I've seen gray ones
blue ones
'flame' ones
black ones

I think I even have a couple red ones like the ones he's talking about. (red instead of blue with black stripes, 3000 mAh.)
They don't hold a charge well and just write it off to trying to save a buck but not really.

I've since learned a little.
Even my cheapo gray 2500 mAh Trustfire last longer.
I've since acquired better batteries and still looking around.

Now to get away from the cheap chargers and get something better like the Xtar wp2 II or the Pila.

 

[Rocketman]

We're talking getting ripped off here.
The 3000mah Red ones cost me $34/dozen,, shipped.
If I vaped the first 1000mah off them then swapped out (at the time I was vaping 2.4 to 2.8 ohm cartos in a flashlight mod) I got the equivalent of 12, 1000mah cells for $34. My wife was vaping the same cartos on 900mah eGos ( I bought 10).

The 3000mah was a lie. The cells don't perform anywhere close to a better cell.
But did I get "Ripped Off"?
I sure would have if I had paid $10 each (check some of our suppliers).

Now that I'm vaping 1.5 ohm Dual Coils, the BiG Red doesn't cut it.

 

[TonyTT]

we've been using unprotected batteries in devices that range from hanging on our hip to hanging in our ear canal ??

why the big deal about protected batts all of a sudden ??? if these are any good at all,i'd buy and use

t

I think a big part of it has to do with the fact that some of us are putting batteries into tubes shaped like rockets, and then sticking them in our mouths...I also won't skimp on using anything other than the batteries specifically reccomended by the manufacturer...

 

[TonyTT]

I guess I'm just paranoid that way....my provari already looks like it is space-worthy...

 

[stephpd]

I really wasn't paying much attention to them until I got the provari and the ability to check the voltages over time.(or when I put a 'fresh' one in) I now see for myself the 'curve' as these drop in voltage. Before I'd just carry a couple batteries and charge them every night. But even in the Ego 18650 mod I thought they seemed less powerful through the day. At least they were getting through the day without shutting off on low voltage, though they were getting close when I swapped them out.

The better batteries stay up over 3.8 volts for a days use. The cheap ones get down below 3.5 volt far too soon. Some of the cheap ones don't even start above 3.8v, or they drop off from 4.1 to 3.8 while checking them out.