struggles with strength and sweetener, same old questions, hoping for new advice.

[Blackbeard]

I'm still struggling with strengths of fruit flavors and sweeteners. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but I use 10% as a starting point for fruit, and I barely get a background taste (nose hit is always better). I've tried mainly TFA Peach, Juicy Peach and Blueberry Extra, and although the flavor is present, it's never like I'd like it. When it starts getting strong enough with as much as 14%, I get the feeling that some EM might make it better. One or two drops in a 10ml test batch seems to help, 3 drops of EM starts to give it a plastic taste. Is 20% going overboard?

Does anybody recognize this symptom and how do you resolve it? I end up with a 12mg nic juice at 75/25 PG/VG. I've followed some very reliable mixer's advice, so I'm confused. Perhaps their PG/VG ratio is different enough to affect the flavor?

 

[boomerdude]

What PV are you vaping on? Sometimes the hardware has a lot to do with taste.

 

[purelyscientific]

What flavor are you using?

 

[Hoosier]

Wanna' hear something completely off the wall?

What do you get when you start at 5%?

(I'm wondering if you are something like a "super-taster" if anyone wonders where I'm going with this...)

 

[hotrod3539]

^^^^^ that man is highly regarded around here for his DIY. read his blogs (i recommend all 3) just click on the number 3 next to blog entries under his pic. they helped me with a few things!

 

[bivie]

(I'm wondering if you are something like a "super-taster" if anyone wonders where I'm going with this...)

Wow. I think you just made a light bulb go off for me. I've been having an issue
for the longest time tasting some juices. I get a sampling of them occasionally,
but can't taste them all of the time.

For example, store-bought tobacco extracts. I have several that are absolutely
wonderful, but most of the time I can't taste them much. Periodically, I will get
them out and try them again. The first taste is amazing, and then nothing. I
lose it.

I went to Wikipedia to read up about supertasters. It described what I just
described.

A week or so ago, I made DIY flu cured. I went with some common recipes
in this forum, which said the range is from three percent up to 10, with most
people happy at around five percent. I started with three. Even after a week
or so, I can barely taste it.

So, I read some more, and in one thread someone stated that they like it at
10 percent because they don't like to wait, but would rather vape it right
away. So I made a small batch at 10 percent as a test.

It tasted so good I almost had a vapegasm. That is, for one hit. Then, like
the other things I described, nothing. It becomes a mostly flavorless vape
to me.

This whole thing is heartbreaking to me because there are some really awesome
juices that I have purchased from vendors that I only get a 'glimpse' of from
time to time.

And, I read your blog from time to time and keep your ideas in mind. I also
have followed suggest recipes from this forum as closely as I can, and way
too often, I get horrible results. It seems that many times I get no flavor,
and other times it's enough to blow my head off. Now and then, I make a
DIY that turns out OK - not great, but OK. I have tried recommended
percentages, and I have tried lower percentages - still no success.

The only thing I haven't tried is very high percentages. I haven't bothered
yet because of your suggestion that it could have the opposite effect -
flavor kill.

On Wikipedia, the author of the article said to test by using blue dye on
the tongue. I'm gonna get some to see if I get a positive result. The
result for a supertaster looks like white blotches on a blue tongue.

In the meantime, Hoosier, do you think this is my issue? I mean, I think
the biggest clue is to get that amazing burst of flavor from a juice right
up front, and then to get nothing. Hold it in the mouth, let it out the
nose, stand on my head, whistle Dixie while waving a rubber chicken
over my head - nothing.

Signed,

Flavorless in Texas

 

[Hoosier]

You could be, or it could be your hardware, it's really tough thing to say. ('specially over the internet...) For example, I know when a coil is getting gunked up because the first hit is great, but the flavor disappears afterward. I've tried every carto and clearo I could get my hands on and they all suck to my sense of taste, so I'm a dripper. I've met plenty that say the only way they could taste anything good is through hardware that is all but useless for me for anything but producing vapor.

What keyed me on the OP's post was a suspicion that the poster was EM sensitive, which is another symptom of being a super taster, but not always. So I went with the super taster angle first.

As for you FIT, it could be that your tasters react quickly to vapor and shut down after a big flavor hit? It could be that a subtle or flavorless vape, or going flavorless for awhile then trying subtle, light, flavors for awhile may bring them around to not being scared of a big flavor hit. It could be that I'm whistling out my kilt too... A true supertaster will have more flavor with much less flavoring than most other vapers. I know there have been a few around here before, they might still be hanging out...

But a hardware change up and switching to flavorless are fairly easy to try with flavorless being the less expensive and quickest thing to try. If it is hardware, I'd suggest grabbing an I06 and an I06 drip tip to see if that changes anything as it is probably one of the best atty's for the money when it comes to transferring taste. (My experience)

My youngest son did the supertaster test on me and it was a horrible tasting thing, which he said meant I was one. I'm pretty sure the test is NOT directly related to vaping. (I based that off of one data point, so it's not anything close to scientific, but I cannot be swayed even with evidence. Plus I never want that crap wiped on my tongue again...it took days for it to fully go away...) I think I have a pretty good sense of taste. I can pick out individual spices in most foods and I can try a vendors juice at a meet and they nod when I say what I think are the main flavorings and where those flavorings were purchased from. (Except tobaccos and I get the biggest kick from Vaper .....'s stuff as those guys do some crazy combos that just drive my taster crazy.) But, I'm not a super taster when it comes to vape as I tend to mix at a higher % of flavoring than many and DeMulta's Sweet Tart recipe didn't blow my head off.

So, what's your next move FIT?

 

[purelyscientific]

Try ce3's hoosier, the flavor with them is outstanding. I think it is because it is a bottom wicking clearo.

 

[bivie]

So, what's your next move FIT?

lol - it took me a bit to figure the FIT out

I've had the same problem in all of the usual delivery devices. As of late, I'm
giving a lot of love to a Phoenix RBA. I get the same effect with a clean atty,
whether that or a 306, as with cartos and clearos.

Since I've started low and that didn't work, maybe I will try one flavor ultra
high percentage just for grins. I can always dilute it.

Some things I can taste fine. Like butterscotch, grape, torque 56, blah blah
blah. Others, no. I've been suspicious that it was tobacco extracts, but the
incident I described with the Va. flu cured proves that wrong.

The next step is one you mentioned and one I was already considering, and
that is to vape unflavored nic juice for a day or two. If nothing else, it will
be cheaper than my usuals.

Another thing that may be causing it is allergies. I was suspicious that was
the problem for a coupla months, but then I started thinking that might not
be it. I have been taking allergy meds lately, but I see no improvement. I
do not have the issue with food, just vapes. It would be a great benefit if
it were the other way around

As I said, I guess I'll try to vape unflavored juice tomorrow, and maybe the
next day, and do a little test again. Other than that, I'll have to weather
the storm until I can figure out if it's allergies or what.

Oh, that reminds me. Here's another possibility, but I've not been able to
prove it or remedy it: The biggest part of the problem happened in the
autumn. I thought the issue was that my juices - vendor and DIY - needed
to steep longer. I kept checking every week and so very little improvement.

There was a story on the news about taste buds. It explained that humidity
can play a part. A light bulb went off. If it's too dry, it can affect taste
buds. It's very humid in Houston in the summer, and in the fall it dried up,
and so did my taste buds. I was drinking about a gallon of water a day
and it didn't help. So, that's what I'm waiting for even more than the
allergy thing. When summer gets here, I will know.

I hadn't put it together until just now, but it's been raining, misting and
dreary for a few days now. Today I was excited because one of my
favorite vapes that I haven't been able to taste, HHV Dragon's Fire,
came through. Not in a grand way, but I could taste enough to remember
why I love it. Coincidence?

Too many variables. If it doesn't clear up with the things I'll try and by
the time summer has set in, I'll just have to live with it and keep a list
of flavors/vendors to avoid. I like to change flavors a lot, so that will
be limiting for a while, but eventually I would have a long list of ...
well, taste-ables

Thanks for trying to help. I hope you weren't too bored by the long post,
and thanks OP for letting me .... in on your thread. Your post helped me
get here, though, so maybe I can find resolution with this.

FIT

 

[Hoosier]

Try ce3's hoosier, the flavor with them is outstanding. I think it is because it is a bottom wicking clearo.

I have.......

 

[purelyscientific]

You don't think the flavor quality rivals atomizers?

 

[Hoosier]

It doesn't rival the I06's or HH.357's I've been using for quite awhile.

 

[Blackbeard]

A lot of food for thought here.

I've read Hoosier's blogs many times over as well, and tend to put a lot of trust in his words. I'm not sure what I06's or HH.357's are, so maybe a link to these might be helpful. I use an eGo-T now, giving up on the eGo-C just recently. I guess I should read up on and learn to drip.

Supertaster? I'm not sure. The tobacco flavors seem to come out strong for me. Fruit doesn't. That's all I know for sure, and I've yet to find a sweetener that sweetens. They mostly give a muting effect until they reach that plastic taste I mentioned.

The relative humidity theory seems to be a good idea to explore. It's very dry here in winter, and we use a heat pump all year long, so our house is very dry.

 

[Hoosier]

The I06 looks like a 306, but is a larger diameter and a bit tougher. https://www.ikenvape.com/searchresults.asp?cat=1829

The HH.357 has an ECF thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-suppliers-forum/293423-official-avidvaper-com-hh-357-discussion-thread-part-2-a.html I prefer the long barrel version myself HH.357 Long Barrel Hybrid 510 Atomizer - Avid Vaper

You have the muting and eventual plastic taste from all sweeteners? (I was under the impression it was just with EM...)

 

[Blackbeard]

You have the muting and eventual plastic taste from all sweeteners? (I was under the impression it was just with EM...)

I have used TFA Sweetener, Cotton Candy, and EM. All reach a point of muting, although I can't remember if the plastic taste ever comes through with the Sweetener or Cotton Candy. I don't mix up that much yet due to the confusion I seem to keep running into. About every third mix is likeable. And I'm not using that many different flavors. I always start with a single flavor, like Blueberry Extra, and think it might be better with a little sweetness. Unfortunately, sweetness never occurs.

It's all very frustrating, since I don't know if it's me thinking sweet should be sugar sweet or just a flavor enhancer. Do others get the taste of sweetness similar to adding sugar to the original Kool-Aid?

Guess I'll have to get me one of those atomizers one day and learn how to drip, although that seem like so much work to me since I don't know how to do it. Any drip tutorials around?

 

[Hoosier]

Well that's interesting. BTW Cotton Candy and EM are usually the same thing. Muting with sweetener that drastically at that low of a level and the same with EM. I can see EM doing that, but the sweetener is unusual.

Sweetener sweetens for me. Not like sugar and nowhere near as good as a cane sugar and not even as good tasting as beet sugar, but it does sweeten like adding Splenda.

Folks that don't like the splenda taste usually go with marshmallow flavoring for sweetening, that's one option, but I don't know if it will help the disappearing flavor issue.

If you were a neighbor, I would throw together a mix with 15% Capella's Sweet Tangerine and see if the same thing occurred. Of course I would put it in a dripping atty with your drip tip too, but that's me. (No, I don't know of a drip tutorial, but I imagine there are such things out there.)

I'm kinda' at a loss. I have the odd notion of going the opposite way and suggesting vinegar or lemon juice because they have been known to stabilize flavoring.

 

[Blackbeard]

Here's a revelation into solving this mystery. For the past week, I've had a strange illness similar to the flu. It only started last Wednesday as a mild muscle ache, and now, 9 days later, I'm feeling pretty darn good. I'm still a little tired, and it must be one of the 40% strains of the flu that the current vaccine doesn't cover. Anyway, my juices are starting to taste pretty good. They haven't really been tasting like much for a month or so, but I don't think I've had this that long.

So maybe I have been affected by this bug for a month or longer. Or maybe getting the bug has enhanced my tasting abilities. Or maybe vaping less has allowed my tasting to return. Or who knows what else could be happening.

Anyway, my Black Honey is better than it's ever been. I can't wait to try some of my other concoctions. I thought maybe the extra time for some of these to steep a while longer might be the reason, but some of my juices don't require steeping.

Just an update from possible super-taster (or just a sick old man).