Sub-Ohm Blues

[jolly_st_nic]

So I took a break from electronic cigs and kept smoking real ones for a few years, and now that I'm giving e cigs another go there are all these mods, coils, tanks, RDAs, etc. available (when I tried e cigs the first time, the ego pen with leaky mouthpiece was all the rage). I remember trying a cigalike from Halo that worked, and Tribeca at 24 mg was almost enough nicotine back then to make quitting real cigs seem plausible. I enjoyed nicotine levels as high as 36 mg. That was then.

I bought a Sigelei 75 watt some time ago, and I've since picked up an RDA and a tank. I read a lot about vaping sub-ohm before I started doing it, and the juice I picked up was the recommended 6 mg. I got some DIY supplies and started mixing juice again. No joy. My cigarette intake remained the same, even though I wanted to quit smoking; even though I was trying all sorts of flavors with tobacco absolute that tasted alright to me; even though I was building nice coils on the RDA and getting tons of vapor. The equipment for vaping has gotten a lot better, not worse, so I wondered why I wasn't smoking less. E cigs seemed better 6 years ago to me, and I was about ready to give up.

Apparently I just need more nicotine in my juice. I had the idea, then googled to find out if anyone out there is addicted enough to vape 12 mg with sub-ohm. Lots of people are! Hey, 12 mg is working better. That made the difference, and now I'm not smoking nearly as much and might be able to quit for good. I was under the false impression that 6 mg is the absolute max, but no, 12 mg of a good tobacco flavor is actually very pleasant, at least for me. It's as satisfying as I remember! I have been smoking two packs a day, give or take, for 24 years now, so maybe it's just a matter of needing more nicotine than the vast majority of people need. I've got 12 mg of a tobacco-flavored juice on a 0.4 ohm cooking at 50 watts. I'm happy, and I'm not dead.

It shows that, to make this work, I really need to find exactly the setup that suits me. Maybe sharing this experience will help any frustrated nicotine junkies that are ready to give up on e cigs. It's better to give it a fair shot, not just in the time you spend trying it out, but in the setup you devise to beat the real cigarettes. I read that advice on a British public health website about quitting cigarettes, and it's damn good advice about these e cigs. Get the flavor / strength you like, adequate hardware, and so on before you conclude that e cigarettes aren't for you. For me, upping my nic level increases the satisfaction. Cheers!

 

[Bonskibon]

Glad to hear your giving it another go. Seems this time you have what will work for you.

 

[Eskie]

You can use as high a nic amount as you want that satisfies your cravings until or unless it makes you nauseous and crappy feeling from too much. I started on 24 mg Tribeca (loved the stuff) at low wattage. Over time I've moved down to 12 mg, and that's with builds in the 0.8 to 0.6 ohm range in TC with tanks better for a "restricted lung hit", and 6 mg for tanks in the 0.3 0.5 ohm build range that offer lots of airflow for a more DL type vape (I still can't figure out exactly how I vape, I don't chase clouds, prefer flavor, but have gotten away from the tight draw associated with classic mtl). If 12 mg makes you happy and controls your urges, stay there. No rule that says you can't. We're all different, and the great thing about gear these days is the wide assortment to satisfy just about every preference, at least once you figure your preferences out.

 

[jolly_st_nic]

Thanks Bonkibon, it just might work.

Eskie, I'm into flavor also. I exhale a lot more vapor with this setup than I do with cigarettes, but it doesn't matter at all to me. I'm using a Desire Yuri Flavor RDA, single coil, with the air slot fully open, and that part is perfect. I lung inhale (mouth is too harsh), and that took some getting used to, but it feels as natural as mouth on a cigarette now. I think I'll stay at 12 mg as you suggest, since it seems to work, and it's really not that harsh. I like a robust flavor. People who chew say they crave the burn in their lip, and maybe I like a little burn in my airways? Strange, but maybe I do. I've enjoyed smoking American Spirits and some strong rollies like Samson, so perhaps this setup makes a lot more sense to me than it would to others.

EDIT here is my Quit Smoking Liquid, by the way.

10 ml 36 mg / ml PG nicotine
12 drops Virginia by FA
6 drops Desert Ship by FA
3 drops Tobacco Absolute 50/50 by ecigexpress
~20 ml VG

Great oldschool-flavored tobacco with a powerful kick at 0.4 ohms, at least to my taste, and it stands in for a cigarette quite nicely.

 

[RainSong]

I mix up 15mg for the hubby. That's one of the beauties of DIY, infinitely customizable.

 

[sawlight]

Yeah, there's no hard fast rule for any of this! I vape 36-40mg juice on everything, sub and Supra ohm builds! Do what you need to to make it work for you!

 

[Robino1]

Welcome back

 

[jolly_st_nic]

Yeah, there's no hard fast rule for any of this! I vape 36-40mg juice on everything, sub and Supra ohm builds! Do what you need to to make it work for you!

Hey sawlight, I have a few questions for you. That is a huge amount of nicotine. Do you vape it all day or just for a few minutes at a time? If I vaped that strong early in the day when I just woke up, I'd be feeling pretty lit-up I think. Is the idea with this new tech to get it where it feels, vs just tastes, like a cig then? Will I have more success that way with quitting the real ones?

See, when I was into this e-cig thing before, the government (?) was running articles that said e cigarettes don't deliver nicotine at all. It was discouraging, and was probably intended to be, but actually, I never did feel much of anything when vaping except less anxious about not smoking the real ones. In fact, I've never felt what I'd call a "buzz" from any nicotine replacement, only from real cigarettes, and only then for a few minutes in the morning on occasion when I could feel the stimulant effect in a half-asleep state. I use tobacco to stave off a bad, anxious feeling more than to give myself a good, relaxed feeling. But with this new e-cig gear, it seems to me I could probably up my nic level to where I'd be feeling quite the effect if I puffed long enough. So basically, the big question is, how are people using nicotine e-liquids in a tangible way to quit cigs? I know everybody's different, but is it better for a long-time tobacco addict to get an adequate amount of nicotine so as to get a little rush from it? Will that make my chances better? Before I just got a taste from it like I'd smoked, and I smoked less because of that, but then again, I wasn't able to quit completely. Any feeling from it was just reduced cravings and lack of severe withdrawal symptoms. Maybe if I took in a little bit more nic than I get from a cigarette, it would make a nice replacement and I could quit analogs, but I'd have to know how long to puff and when to stop puffing, because the delivery is not so immediate as from the real deal.

I'm really getting interested in finding a system to beat the real ones altogether, and I'd like an effective way to do it. When I was younger I just lit up and didn't worry, but as I get older and the coughing gets worse, I am more interested in quitting and want to maximize my chances. Doubt I'll ever be off nicotine, but lung cancer and emphysema are not ways I want to die.

Lots of scattered questions, sorry. I hope you get the gist of what I'm asking.

 

[englishmick]

Hey sawlight, I have a few questions for you. That is a huge amount of nicotine. Do you vape it all day or just for a few minutes at a time? If I vaped that strong early in the day when I just woke up, I'd be feeling pretty lit-up I think. Is the idea with this new tech to get it where it feels, vs just tastes, like a cig then? Will I have more success that way with quitting the real ones?

Some folks want a vape that's as close as possible to smoking. Others want to get as far from that taste as they can. My guess from reading on ECF is that more people fall into the second category. Your taste will change anyway. Some start on tobacco flavor and move to other flavors, or vice versa. I needed to have a lot of different flavors going because I got bored easily. Trying new flavors was part of the process that helped me stay of the cigs. Tried tobacco flavors a few months in and enjoyed them, but not any more. Best just to try different flavors and different gear and see what works. Don't try to anticipate what direction will work for you.

 

[sawlight]

I'll do my bestests here,
I'M NOT NORMAL!! Not buy any stretch! I have chronic pain, broken back, and my medicine cabinet would make a lot of illicit users jealous! I'm still a dual user, down to pack a day from 3-5 PAD. There are times I'm up for 72ish hours straight from pain. (Not asking for sympathy, just calling it how it is.)
So yes, I vape that all day, every day. Right now I've got an Avacodo with a .75ohm build at 25w going. My new favorite is a Kayfun v4 with a 1.2ohm build at 25w. There are times I break out the Mutank, dual coil at .5ohms and run it 60-80w. It just depends on my needs.
Finding what works, that's a bear! The biggest thing is getting the nic level right, so your body is happy. Then find a juice you just love, and I mean love! Then you need to find an atty that suits your style. Do you like mouth to lung or do you want to do lung hits? You also have to find a mod that will work for you. To big and heavy, you won't carry it around. To small and the battery dies and you say screw it!
Lots of pieces in the puzzle, but flavor and nic strength are paramount! From there everything else will fall into place. But if you don't like the flavor, or it's not strong enough, you just won't bother with the rest of it! Make sense?
Once it all comes together you will be smoking a cig and grab your vape at the same time and you will think "Man, this vape is so much better, why am I still smoking?" It happens sooner with some than others, just keep at it! At the end of the day it's not about how much you smoked as it is about how many you don't smoke!
I hope that helps some at least?

 

[jolly_st_nic]

englishmick, I heard that at my local vape shop, that most people switch to fruit, etc. flavors who start with tobacco flavors. I might do that too, but I do love, and I mean love, the flavor of tobacco. One difficult thing for me is getting used to the flavor of Virginia, Burley, etc. e liquids, because I remember too well what the real thing tastes like smoked. I add tobacco absolute to give the taste and body more of an authentic tobacco thing, and that works pretty well. I will consider it an accomplishment when my Virginia from FlavorArt is as appealing to me as something like Danish Export. That said, tobacco flavored e juice can taste pretty convincing. I tried something years ago called Captain Jack by Halo, and it reminded me of a strong tobacco I had tried once (and didn't really like very much, but still). Some said the Captain Jack tasted like rose petals, but as soon as I took a puff I knew the flavor they were going for. It's amazing considering it was probably non-tobacco ingredients.

sawlight, yeah, that helps. I've found some good flavors, all the more tailored to my tastes since I'm making my own liquid. I'll play around with this 12 mg for a few days, then raise or lower the strength and my consumption as needed. Cool that you're down to a pack a day.

 

[RainSong]

So basically, the big question is, how are people using nicotine e-liquids in a tangible way to quit cigs?

For me, I know I am far more addicted to the smoking ritual than the actual nicotine. I need hand to mouth and visible clouds. Vape clouds are so much more satisfying than cig smoke too so I was one of those started vaping and immediately quit smoking people. My husband is still duel using and at a higher nic than I am (but smoking far few cigs, yay!). I do pretty much chain vape 6mg, and if I start to feel a little jittery or off center or nic sick I just put the vape down for awhile. I was a PAD+ for about 25 years and am very thankful I took the jump to vaping.

 

[Ali Holloway]

It's so subjective and different for every single person. I started out with egos and menthol liquids ordered from Zeus juice, and very quickly discovered that to me, all menthol liquids did was remind of a breath mint and make me want the taste of a real menthol cigarette that much worse. I moved on to a vamo, MVP, and 30w Istick, very briefly forayed into mech mods and dripping, yet 12mg liquids left me always coughing and hacking, yet 6mg wasn't enough nicotine. I inevitably went back to my Marlboro light menthols every time. Quit vaping entirely for a year, and ironically only bought a new set up a few weeks ago because I knew I was fixing to spend the night doing some heavy drinking and didn't want to smoke 2 packs of cigs in under 12 hours. I left with a Kanger Subvod and 6mg. juice, and low and behold, sub ohm tanks is what did it for me. A week later I had a subvod mega tc, a joyetech AIO (which I wish had a more airy dtl draw, but is leakproof and good for carrying when I ride my horses) and a Kanger Mini-C, some 3 mg juices, and haven't smoked a real cig in over a week and a half now. There's any number of odd, weird things that add up to make vaping enough of a satisfying experience to be successful. And for the record, I was always a menthol smoker, hated non-menthol tobacco, but as a vapor, while I still don't like plain tobacco flavors, I absolutely adore a good honey and tobacco and the RY4 flavors while I still think menthol liquids taste disgusting lol.

 

[Cheallaigh]

yes saw we know you're not normal, we like you anyways...

basically jolly and mick, the general advice is to use less nic if someone is subohming... but like with the flavouring, it's all subjective to what actually works for you... the trial and error bit sometimes takes a little longer, can be expensive to find the right device, but most of us get to a point where we're comfortably duoing or quitting entirely.. any cutting back of cigs is a good thing period.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Im doing 36 nic in a TFV4 quad coil ( .15 ohm) at 50-55W.... it all depends on ones needs to be satisfied nic wise...

you will know when you have reached your limit

 

[bobwho77]

So I took a break from electronic cigs and kept smoking real ones for a few years, and now that I'm giving e cigs another go there are all these mods, coils, tanks, RDAs, etc. available (when I tried e cigs the first time, the ego pen with leaky mouthpiece was all the rage). I remember trying a cigalike from Halo that worked, and Tribeca at 24 mg was almost enough nicotine back then to make quitting real cigs seem plausible. I enjoyed nicotine levels as high as 36 mg. That was then.

I bought a Sigelei 75 watt some time ago, and I've since picked up an RDA and a tank. I read a lot about vaping sub-ohm before I started doing it, and the juice I picked up was the recommended 6 mg. I got some DIY supplies and started mixing juice again. No joy. My cigarette intake remained the same, even though I wanted to quit smoking; even though I was trying all sorts of flavors with tobacco absolute that tasted alright to me; even though I was building nice coils on the RDA and getting tons of vapor. The equipment for vaping has gotten a lot better, not worse, so I wondered why I wasn't smoking less. E cigs seemed better 6 years ago to me, and I was about ready to give up.

Apparently I just need more nicotine in my juice. I had the idea, then googled to find out if anyone out there is addicted enough to vape 12 mg with sub-ohm. Lots of people are! Hey, 12 mg is working better. That made the difference, and now I'm not smoking nearly as much and might be able to quit for good. I was under the false impression that 6 mg is the absolute max, but no, 12 mg of a good tobacco flavor is actually very pleasant, at least for me. It's as satisfying as I remember! I have been smoking two packs a day, give or take, for 24 years now, so maybe it's just a matter of needing more nicotine than the vast majority of people need. I've got 12 mg of a tobacco-flavored juice on a 0.4 ohm cooking at 50 watts. I'm happy, and I'm not dead.

It shows that, to make this work, I really need to find exactly the setup that suits me. Maybe sharing this experience will help any frustrated nicotine junkies that are ready to give up on e cigs. It's better to give it a fair shot, not just in the time you spend trying it out, but in the setup you devise to beat the real cigarettes. I read that advice on a British public health website about quitting cigarettes, and it's damn good advice about these e cigs. Get the flavor / strength you like, adequate hardware, and so on before you conclude that e cigarettes aren't for you. For me, upping my nic level increases the satisfaction. Cheers!

Do what works for YOU.
I vape 24 mg 0.4 ohms @ 50-60w

 

[Rathamar]

Glad to have you back to vaping and hopefully off the analogs soon

I started at 18mg on an ego (mouth to lung) and I was at 12mg when I switched to a Sub Ohm Mod (direct lung)

I've made the step down to 6mg to 9mg depending on the day. I want to get down to 3mg to 0mg. Dont know if I will ever quit completely, I enjoy the hobby part of vaping too much

 

[grandmato5]

Welcome back

The reason that ecigs have helped so many of us stop smoking is because we've been able to tailor it to our OWN individual needs and not be required to only use what someone else thinks should work for us.

If your priority is to quit smoking then use as much nic as you need to make that happen right now. Your body will tell you pretty quickly if you're getting more then it can handle. Listen to what you body is telling you. A few months down the road you can attempt to reduce your nic intake if you want but don't worry about that in the beginning. Some people like having more then one set up filled with different strength nic for different times of the day. Back when I started afternoon and early evening was when I needed more nic and in the later evening I needed to lower the strength I was using. Even when I'd moved down to 6 mg (I started at 20 mg) I still had some higher 12 mg to use if I felt like I needed it.

 

[SteveS45]

When I first quit smoking and moved to a MOD I would spike a tank in the AM with higher nicotine than my normal 3MG content but to be honest that didn't last long. I am currently at 3MG and thinking of moving down because experimenting with 1.5MG and some Zero works for me.

 

[Cheallaigh]

I was subbing from the start, so was going between 6-9mg... now between 3-1 aka mixing 3mg and 0mg almost half n half... taken about 4 months, for 2 of those months I was dual smoking/vaping.