Sub ohm toxin study

[Brian Roche]

I'm frustrated with this study, suddenly everyone is warning me about the massive risks. My concerned old mother even called me, because NPR headlined it as "new studies show e-cigs just as toxic as regular cigs".

In fact I heard that on NPR....that sentience is close to ver betum what they said and the very next sentience is a Roswell scientist saying "well we really know nothing yet, this is just a lab study...."

They are obviously measuring toxins in a dry hit.

e-liquid becomes a vapor at a certain temperature at atmospheric pressure and that's it. A billion degree coil shouldn't make any warmer vapor then a 300 degree coil, that's not how it works.

We're atomizing. Once the liquid changes state to vapor it leaves the coil, anything other then that your not atomizing, your burning, and that has a very different taste.

Put a pot of water on your stove and see if you can make anything other then 212 degree steam. You can't, not at 14.7 PSI. Water reaches 212 deg and any heat added after that changes it's state to vapor. It then leaves the source of heat.

If you want to superheat it, add heat AFTER it's a vapor. Ok I'll concede, this does seem to happen...there is definitely some convection going on with the coils and the vapor but that's not really what were talking about here.

For me, there isn't any doubt about whether their reading toxins from a "dry hit" or not. This, obviously, just an opinion from a web guy but to me, it's just obvious.

 

[listerfeend]

Every single study I have found released by the mainstream media is terribly biased, un-scientific and completely ludicrous, so... Yes, I think you probably have that right1

 

[Bunnykiller]

millions of years of evolution have done things for us to "recognize" things that are harmful to us that usually occur in nature... bad smells, terrible tasting stuff, the ability to throw up, etc.. and a dry hit just may be nasty for us. I cough up my lungs when I get a pretty nasty dry hit... something is going on there that the body doesn't like....

my view, avoid dry hits at all costs

 

[Nuclear Cowboy]

I'm going to keep an open mind about the subject. If it turns out to be as bad as smoking I'll stop vaping. I started out on 24mg juice and I'm down to 6mg now. My next move is 3mg and after that I'll go to 0mg and just vape for the fun/habit of it. If that turns out to be dangerous I'll stop.

 

[buddha2490]

Water turns to steam at 100c, but steam can get plenty hotter at normal atmospheric pressure. Just because you've vaporized the liquid doesn't mean it can't continue to heat while it's in the chamber before you inhale. True, it isn't likely to heat much, but your logic is still flawed.

I vape with a dark liquid that gums up coils pretty quickly. That gum is not vaporizing at the temps that liquid is, it's definitely getting much hotter before it might vaporize and turn into nastiness. There's also the metal in the coil that can vaporize at hight temps, all right up the lungs.

My point is that you're missing a lot in your little rant. Vaping is probably not safe, just safer than smoking. How unsafe it is, still up in the air.

 

[VenusianSky]

How are ohms, or the resistance of the wire, have anything to do with atomizing process? If you have a sub-ohm build and fire it, the liquid will vaporize as soon as the required temperature is reached. Yes, if you continue to fire it, the coils will continue to get hotter, which could produce a different chemical reaction. That is temperature though. If you have a +1 ohm build on a device without shut off protection, you can continue to fire the coils past the temperature that is needed for vaporization, right? As for dry hits, you can get a dry hit on any build, not just sub-ohm. The study seems like it would be completely unreliable.

 

[Steamix]

Resistance wire, heat ... upsize the same principle and you got ...

hey presto !

It's a toaster !

Considering the number fo scorched toast slices that get consumed regularily ( especially on Mother's Day ) without folks dropping like flies, I'm pretty laid back about this so-called 'study'

 

[zoiDman]

I'm frustrated with this study, suddenly everyone is warning me about the massive risks. My concerned old mother even called me, because NPR headlined it as "new studies show e-cigs just as toxic as regular cigs".

In fact I heard that on NPR....that sentience is close to ver betum what they said and the very next sentience is a Roswell scientist saying "well we really know nothing yet, this is just a lab study...."

They are obviously measuring toxins in a dry hit.

E-liquid becomes a vapor at a certain temperature at atmospheric pressure and that's it. A billion degree coil shouldn't make any warmer vapor then a 300 degree coil, that's not how it works.

We're atomizing. Once the liquid changes state to vapor it leaves the coil, anything other then that your not atomizing, your burning, and that has a very different taste.

Put a pot of water on your stove and see if you can make anything other then 212 degree steam. You can't, not at 14.7 PSI. Water reaches 212 deg and any heat added after that changes it's state to vapor. It then leaves the source of heat.

If you want to superheat it, add heat AFTER it's a vapor. Ok I'll concede, this does seem to happen...there is definitely some convection going on with the coils and the vapor but that's not really what were talking about here.

For me, there isn't any doubt about whether their reading toxins from a "dry hit" or not. This, obviously, just an opinion from a web guy but to me, it's just obvious.

Not Say'n the Study is Right or Wrong.

But can I ask you a Question: Can you Burn Water? I think Most people would say No.

OK

So now how about... Can you Burn VG or PG?

 

[edyle]

Not Say'n the Study is Right or Wrong.

But can I ask you a Question: Can you Burn Water? I think Most people would say No.

OK

So now how about... Can you Burn VG or PG?

Yes. They can be burnt.

Water is H20; if you try to burn it, it just gets vaporized to steam.

glycerin and pg are both organic compounds containing carbon; once you can get them hot enough to disrupt the chemistry, you're going to be able to burn stuff and get carbon dioxide and other stuff.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes. They can be burnt.

Water is H20; if you try to burn it, it just gets vaporized to steam.

glycerin and pg are both organic compounds containing carbon; once you can get them hot enough to disrupt the chemistry, you're going to be able to burn stuff and get carbon dioxide and other stuff.

Gotcha.

So it Doesn't sound like using the Water/Steam/212F thing the Greatest Analogy to use when taking about Fluids like PG and VG.

Btw - I understand that PG and VG can break down into some Very Nasty Components at Elevated Temperatures. I wonder if Food Flavorings, Colorants and Artificial Sweeteners can do the Same?

 

[Vaslovik]

The study seems like it would be completely unreliable.

The point of the study, which in fact most likely was never done, is not to be reliable, it's to vilify vaping so the FDA can destroy the vaping industry. I'm betting there is no such study and in fact it's just another giant lie.

 

[Jdbaker82]

would be nice if we can stop debating this and someone could prove something

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2

 

[Jdbaker82]

The point of the study, which in fact most likely was never done, is not to be reliable, it's to vilify vaping so the FDA can destroy the vaping industry. I'm betting there is no such study and in fact it's just another giant lie.

it sounds like it could be legit according to the science of it so yeah I want to know if vaping is nearly as toxic or more toxic then smoking..

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2

 

[daviedog]

Brian, that billion degree coil would make everything very uncomfortable..

 

[zoiDman]

would be nice if we can stop debating this and someone could prove something

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2

Ding-Ding-Ding

Winner, Winner... Chicken Dinner.

 

[Vaslovik]

Yeah, okay, where is this study published? Where is the peer reviewed research? Anyone got a link to it?

 

[Bunnykiller]

cant burn water cuz the hydrogen already has an oxygen molecule attached, but... if VG/PG is heated severely enough it will probably break down into multiple chemicals which then can attract an oxygen molecule or more, thus it is capable of oxidizing ( burn) resulting in new chemical formats, most likely not something one wants to find inside a body....

 

[Bunnykiller]

Yes. They can be burnt.

Water is H20; if you try to burn it, it just gets vaporized to steam.

glycerin and pg are both organic compounds containing carbon; once you can get them hot enough to disrupt the chemistry, you're going to be able to burn stuff and get carbon dioxide and other stuff.

I don't think VG has carbon in it.... basically O and H only...

just checked... glycerin is H3O3

but considering it being heated in a condition with carbon available, it very well could turn into a hydrocarbon of dubious nature.

 

[rurwin]

If it is the study I think it is, they used a cartomiser at two voltages -- low and high and if I remember correctly they also used smoking-machine methodology, which doesn't work for e-cigs. They only found the nasties at high voltage. Try vaping a cartomiser at 4.8V and see if you like the taste.

@Bunnykiller, Interesting. So 100% VG liquid may be safer than a VG/PG blend. Especially with a silica wick.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I would rather inhale the byproducts of PG/VG and and maybe a little distilled water than inhale the byproducts crammed into an analog by Reynolds Tobacco Company. It's the "much lesser" of two evils. That's my $0.02.