I didnt read the thread... I just posted the link and conclusion. I am gonna read it now and will see 
Sub ohm toxin study
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The answer to the very article you linked to was provided a few posts earlier: Formaldehyde release in ecigarette vapor The New York Times story explained in detail
The study isn't incorrect the lower ohms you go the more the Formaldehyde comes out, however it takes a user vaping at extreme sub ohms with very heavy VG juice to get almost the same numbers as smoking a traditional cigarette. Even then you are still intaking less chemicals and other garbage in your system. I'm not going to say it's not bad for you just because I'm on a vape forum, it's simply up to the user to decide if sub-ohming is for them or not. A normal non sub-ohm vaper has nothing to worry about.
Ok i gone through the thread and i red the explanation of the story. So what was wrong with my conclusion?
PG is better/safer, formaldehyde is toxic and more formaldehyde is produced at higher temperatures?!
Its only logic, that if you dont have tank system-means really low amount of liquid and have high power, then the juice will be evaporated quickly, even too quick for safe inhaling. I dont really care if they compare the amount of produced formaldehyde to the cigarettes. Its still there and its a threat to the health... So thats why i posted the link. Did i missed something?
I am still gonna vape but i can make it safer if i know what is bad and whats not!
I dont wanna give people here and locally wrong info so please correct me if i am wrong. Thanks to all of you!!
Keep on vaping
PG is better/safer, formaldehyde is toxic and more formaldehyde is produced at higher temperatures?!
Its only logic, that if you dont have tank system-means really low amount of liquid and have high power, then the juice will be evaporated quickly, even too quick for safe inhaling. I dont really care if they compare the amount of produced formaldehyde to the cigarettes. Its still there and its a threat to the health... So thats why i posted the link. Did i missed something?
I am still gonna vape but i can make it safer if i know what is bad and whats not!
I dont wanna give people here and locally wrong info so please correct me if i am wrong. Thanks to all of you!!
Keep on vaping
@JMarca, I disagree. It's all about coil temperature, and that has nothing to do with power or resistance. A properly functioning coil will be cooled by the vapourising liquid. Only when it ceases to operate correctly does it get any hotter* than the coil in an EVOD. It is highly likely that experienced vapers are very good at detecting this situation before it becomes a problem.
Try this experiment. Take a 3kW electric room heater and a 3kW kettle with an exposed element. Fill the kettle with water and switch them both on. The element on the room heater glows almost immediately. The element in the kettle never glows until all the water is gone.
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* There might be a few tens of degrees difference, but not enough to matter.
Try this experiment. Take a 3kW electric room heater and a 3kW kettle with an exposed element. Fill the kettle with water and switch them both on. The element on the room heater glows almost immediately. The element in the kettle never glows until all the water is gone.
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* There might be a few tens of degrees difference, but not enough to matter.
@rawr, a tank system does not save you. And anyway, the study used a top-coil clearomiser, not a dripper.
It is down to the rate of liquid delivery at the surface of the coil. Sub-ohm dripper coils are designed and built to provide sufficient liquid delivery for the power that they are used at. Read Dr Farselinos's rebuttal: Formaldehyde release in ecigarette vapor The New York Times story explained in detail
in fact I'll go further. Drippers are probably safer than clearomisers. Clearomiser coils are horribly built with uneven wraps and hot-spots. It is unlikely that they are individually tested for anything other than resistance. Dripper coils are craftsman-made and tested to provide an even and well-controlled power transfer.
It is down to the rate of liquid delivery at the surface of the coil. Sub-ohm dripper coils are designed and built to provide sufficient liquid delivery for the power that they are used at. Read Dr Farselinos's rebuttal: Formaldehyde release in ecigarette vapor The New York Times story explained in detail
in fact I'll go further. Drippers are probably safer than clearomisers. Clearomiser coils are horribly built with uneven wraps and hot-spots. It is unlikely that they are individually tested for anything other than resistance. Dripper coils are craftsman-made and tested to provide an even and well-controlled power transfer.
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The world hasnt been so corrupted/broken/filthy and bad in the whole history before. Half of the world is in poverty and on the streets, food is thrown away, tobacco/fuel/energy/drug companies are the bosses and real mafia today so i know that the "articles" and "studies" should be taken with a big reserve. But its still interesting because we are all part of that and i wanna know what i am dealing with.
Half of the world is in poverty and on the streets, food is thrown away, tobacco/fuel/energy/drug companies are the bosses and real mafia today so i know that the "articles" and "studies" should be taken with a big reserve. But its still interesting because we are all part of that and i wanna know what i am dealing with.I agree with you it is about temperature, but you have to remember that a 1.5ohm coil at say 3.7v or around 9.1 watts isn't nearly as hot as a 0.2ohm coil at 3.7v which is around 68.5 watts at load. As soon as you click the switch one gets MUCH, MUCH hotter than the other even though they may both burn for only a few seconds, one is much higher than the other even if it's only for a few seconds (although it usually isn't, see below).
Not all coils are cooled correctly for that matter, we are still in the infancy level of vaping, alot of sub ohm dippers these days are adding heat sinks to the device itself for this very reason. Let's not forget that most cloud chasers will press and hold a dripper alot longer than your average joe will when they take a regular pull. They do this to get as much vapor in their direct lung hit so they can put out the massive cloud. This is where your burn time differs, I've never seen a sub ohm vaper take a 1-2 second pull, the coils need more time to heat and on top tht style of vaping requires you more pull time to get a lungful of vapor to produce the cloud.
The world hasnt been so corrupted/broken/filthy and bad in the whole history before.
I agree with you alot of these studies are just bullocks and are paid for by companies with alterior motives, this one however does hold a candle. Once in a blue you do get an article worth reading.
No it doesn't. It gets to the vaporisation point of the liquid, and sticks there, no matter what power is being delivered to the liquid. The thermal resistance of the element/liquid boundary may make it a few degrees hotter with a higher power, but probably only around ten or twenty Celcius; not enough to make a difference.
Correct. I don't view vaping as safe. Or healthy. Inhaling anything into the lungs is bad. Of course blowing massive clouds is only worse.
It safer than normal cigarettes. But you have to look at the exact situation. If someone is smoking 2-3 cigarettes a day, and then starts to vape and ends up blowing massive clouds 24/7 vaping 30ml+ a day. He may be better off just smoking 2-3 cigarettes a day.
Vaping is harm reduction in my view. Safer alternative to normal cigarettes. But its not healthy, or good for you.
For me personally I will choose vaping over smoking a pack of smokes a day. But I also know the truth. Even vaping should someday be stopped.
With that said after my initial 3-4 months of going crazy with mechs and RDA's, I have now settled down and try my best to vape only when I need it.
It safer than normal cigarettes. But you have to look at the exact situation. If someone is smoking 2-3 cigarettes a day, and then starts to vape and ends up blowing massive clouds 24/7 vaping 30ml+ a day. He may be better off just smoking 2-3 cigarettes a day.
Vaping is harm reduction in my view. Safer alternative to normal cigarettes. But its not healthy, or good for you.
For me personally I will choose vaping over smoking a pack of smokes a day. But I also know the truth. Even vaping should someday be stopped.
With that said after my initial 3-4 months of going crazy with mechs and RDA's, I have now settled down and try my best to vape only when I need it.
Well said, I guess everything in my rant hinges on the idea of looking for that good quality vape. Once that's your focus, no matter what wattage your using your still having the restraint that's required not to leave the realm of atomizing and enter the realm of burning.
My beef was never really with the study. The scientists involved are wide open about the possibility that this is a dry hit. I'm awaiting the human study very eagerly.
But the media....it makes me mistrust everything I hear on NPR when that's the way their twisting the information just to make the news sound compelling.
But the media....it makes me mistrust everything I hear on NPR when that's the way their twisting the information just to make the news sound compelling.
Have you Contacted NPR and told them that you Think their Reporting was Slanted and Biased? Perhaps even hit them with a Link or Two that refutes what they wrote? What did they say when you Did?
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a 1.5ohm coil at say 3.7v or around 9.1 watts isn't nearly as hot as a 0.2ohm coil at 3.7v which is around 68.5 watts at load of the same gauge and assume both are single coil.
putting multiple coils also means you drop your overall ohms without increasing temperature.
10 1.5 ohm coils in parallel at 3.7 volts can't get any hotter than 1 1.5 ohm coil at 3.7 volts of the same gauge.
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i look forward to the full results of Dr. F's reports. i have taken extreme measures to vape safely as possible. still, so little is proven we are left to blindly guinea pig with trial and error at this point. i was glad to see roly's thread on sub-ohming. i believe the transferrance of some undesirable chemicals also occur with any build once the wick begins to clog and limit the supply of fresh juice to the coil. i typically use Kanger bottom coil tanks/clearomizers, kayfuns, drippers, and RDAs. overpowering any coil will produce negative results. on a fresh full kayfun with a 1.3 ohm coil i typically apply 9 watts to start. as the level in the tank reaches the level of the coil, the wick now has to lift juice and off flavors and discoloration of juice begin to occur and concentrate. at this point(preferably before), either refill the tank and/or lower the power considerably to finish the tank. i believe this condition is the result of juice that has burnt and the chemical composition already changed by excess heat applied. with my diy juice cost of .08 cents/ml i am thinking of pouring out the remaining ml and rewicking after every tank. the BCCs would waste less as gravity helps feed the coil to the end. wicks still clog and coils overheat. there is alot to be said about refilling tanks sooner than later and using less power to atomize. most of us who think we are being safe are riding a fine line with the application of power to our coils. we try to optimize the VTF just below the point of burning. the safe evaporation/boiling point of juice changes as vaped imo. as a result, i lower power as volume of juice remaining depletes. with dripping atomizers i rather deal with leakage than dry hits. they are still the best devices to taste flavors imo and i never push the power when using them. i liked jimid's post in this thread that suggested adding water(hopefully distilled) to juice for sub-ohming. this makes some sense to me. i don't sub-ohm much. my mods other than egos are regulated. my nemesis has a kick v.2 installed and set at 10 watts. i am liking the results i am getting from nichrome wire and have two dna 30 mods on order. they will allow easier adjustability of power for builds below 1.3 ohm. i have tried sub-ohm down to .35 with a straight mech mod and it triggered a drowning reflex from my lungs. most unpleasant, inconsistent vape, but flavorful. still searching for my sweet spot, i feel it lies somewhere between .8-1.5 resistance. trial and error still prevail in my vaping experience.
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