**Sub-Ohm Vaping** Discussion, Safety, Battery Info, & Warnings

[dr g]

The formulas are still relevant. A regulated device just manipulates the variables, it doesn't change the laws of physics.

More importantly, battery safety is still relevant. Electronics fail, even in regulated devices. Maybe the failure is such that the electrical connection is broken immediately. But maybe the failure is such that the battery is already in thermal runaway before the electrical connection is broken.

Proselytizing that a regulated device makes either Ohm's Law or battery safety completely irrelevant is dangerously misleading.

Ohm's law applies differently in a regulated mod than a mech mod. The coil does not determine the battery draw in a regulated mod.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Here we go. And it started so nicely. A great idea for a thread, now sits on the edge of a knife.

Such a shame.

 

[JackSparrow]

...

Sent via NSA Spy Satellite...

 

[fabricator4]

Here we go. And it started so nicely. A great idea for a thread, now sits on the edge of a knife.

Such a shame.

Yeah, usually sewerage finds it's own level, but occasionally it backs up and floods the toilet floor. Everything after post #8 needs to be deleted.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Yeah, usually sewerage finds it's own level, but occasionally it backs up and floods the toilet floor. Everything after post #8 needs to be deleted.

Before or after the OP renames the thread?

Tapped out

 

[NAsuzyQ]

I got some much needed info from your first postings. I am new to this and found out that I need more education before I consider making my own subohm coils.
And sorry that OP ruined it for you. Hope to find another thread here?

 

[Technonut]

I got some much needed info from your first postings. I am new to this and found out that I need more education before I consider making my own subohm coils.
And sorry that OP ruined it for you. Hope to find another thread here?

I'm glad to hear the info was useful to you.. Nah, nothing is ruined.. Folks can come here and ask for help anytime. If I can't answer, I'm sure others will..

 

[river.guy]

I definitely benefitted from this thread. Made sure to bookmark the Ohms Law Calculator to stay battery safe! Already had a laminated chart made up to keep at my "build station" but it didn't include amp draw. Great info here for anyone.

Thanks!

 

[Technonut]

Torchy the Battery Boy: IMR "safe chemistry" batteries

The above is a handy link to popular IMR batteries of all sizes used for vaping, tested at constant 1A, 5A and 10A discharge rates. There are also specs which include:

Internal Resistance mΩ

Actual Capacity(mAh)

Length (mm)

Diamater (mm)

Weight (g)

 

[EddardinWinter]

Thanks, Tech. Your knowledge is a real asset to the site.

Tapped out

 

[Koman]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing!

 

[Ryedan]

Thanks for doing this Technonut! IMO accurate information is the best way to help people stay safe in any endeavor.

The last while I've accumulated a small database of battery information for my use as a quick reference and I thought it might be useful to people. So, to be clear, I do not buy according to what's in this list, it's just a starting point to help me figure out what I want to research more before buying. I've checked all of these and found at least one confirming webpage for each except for the Efest 14500.

If anyone spots an error, or feels like adding to the list, please post.

AW IMR
18650 2000mah 10A (5C)
18650 1600mah 24A (15C)
18490 1100mah 16.5A (15C)
18350 700mah 6A (8.6C)
14500 600mah 4.0A (6.7C)

EFEST IMR
18650 2000mah 10A (5C)
18500 1100mah 8.8A (8C)
18350 800mah 6.4A (8C)
14650 950mah 9.5A (10C)
14500 700mah A (C) (No information found on this one)

EH IMR
18650 2000 mAh 16A (8C)
18500 1100 mAh 8.8A (8C)
18350 800 mAh 6.4A (8C)
14500 600mah 4.8A (8C)

MNKE
IMR18650 1500mah 20A (13.3C)

Panasonic
CGR18650CH 2250mAh 10A (4.4C)
NCR18650PD 2900mAh 10A (3.4C)

Samsung
INR18650-20R 2000mah 20A (10C)

Sony
us18650v3 IMR 2250mAh 10A (4.4C)
SE US18650VTC3 1600mAh 30A (18.75C)

ETA: Added corrections.

 

[dr g]

AW 14500 is 4A, 18490 is 15C and the 18350 is 6A (AW's figures).

 

[Ryedan]

AW 14500 is 4A, 18490 is 15C and the 18350 is 6A (AW's figures).

Thank you! Changes added.

 

[Ezah]

Technonut asked me to put this here, so here I am

As we all know usage of mechanical mods is connected with voltage drops. They are caused mainly by electrical construction of mod but also by the internal resistance of the battery.
So I decided to check how the internal resistance of different batteries affect on voltage drops.

The test was carried out by use of model atomizer with 1ohm resistor:

For each battery voltage was measured by use of multimeter 2 times:
• first directly on battery,
• then the battery was inserted into the mod and measurement was taken on atomizer pins.

In the game participated:

From left:
* AW IMR 18350 – used for about half year, 50-60 charging cycles,
* Efest v2 18350 - used for about half year, 50-60 charging cycles
* Noname 18350 - used for more than half a year, 50 charging cycles.
* AW IMR 18500 – bought a second-hand, don’t know history,
* Efest v2 18500 – used for about 3-4 months, 30-40 charging cycles,
* Panasonic CGR 18500 - used for about 3-4 months, about 20 charging cycles,
* AW IMR 18650 - used for about 4 months, about 10 charging cycles,
* Samsung INR18650 (for laptop) - used for about 3-4 months, about 10 charging cycles,
* UltraFire XSL - used for about 4 months, about 10 charging cycles.

Model atomizer was powered by 69 mod which has quite small voltage drops.
Of course all the batteries were fully charged before the test.

And there are results:

So... now I'll do pretty risky assumption ... The best result was for AW IMR 18500 battery and was 3.95 V. Voltage measured dircetly on battery was 4.19 V so total voltage drop was 0.24 V. Let's ASSUME it splitted into:
* 0.14 V - voltage drop on mod+atomizer,
* 0.1 V - voltage drop on internal resistance of battery.

So, assuming the voltage drop on mod+atomizer was still the same (0.14V) we can calculate voltage drop on each battery:

As you can see, it is worth to pay attention to what you put into a mod

 

[Technonut]

Thanks Ezah! Nice addition to the thread. I appreciate your work and testing, as I'm sure others will. I was especially interested in the AW IMR / Efest IMR/ Samsung INR results..

EDIT: The 1 ohm load is a good indicator of battery performance with the brands tested. I'm certain they would follow the same trend sub-ohm. Ezah.. If you would be so kind, and have the means available to conduct a sub-ohm test like above, it would be nice to see them whenever you have the time

 

[pizza2me]

dayum!! Again?..... ok I won't say anything....Awesome info techno and all others that have contributed!! I've thought about sub-ohm'ing to see what the hype is about. And have done a bit of studying. But, not in a hurry because I'm very satisfied with what I'm using (mostly low ohm micro-coils). But, if or when I do get to that point to trying sub ohm, I'm coming back here again. Thanks!!!If a dedicated sub-forum is created for sub ohm. I hope the powers that be can have this as a sticky in there AND keep it here for those that might not think to go there. At least these initial pointers.EDIT: I hope I didn't miss it because I got distracted and skimmed some. But I think it would be good for somebody in the know to comment on proper mod vent holes? They why.. Location... Etc.

 

[ChainVapitis]

Thanks, so much for this thread! Great information! Have a pretty stupid question to ask, but thought someone here would know. For some reason I usually don't seem to be aware of when to change out batteries (yes, I know - I must be numb ) & have even run some IMRs down to 1.8 - not good! Is there something to use that will let me know other than the Kick? Have found it easier to tell with the MNKE batteries than the Pannys, but actually get a stronger hit from the Pannys - both of which have been better for me than the AW IMRs. All are 18650 & am doing .8 - 1 ohm coils, usually chain vape & batteries always get warm to hot. Any input is appreciated. Again, thanks for this thread.

 

[Technonut]

Thanks, so much for this thread! Great information! Have a pretty stupid question to ask, but thought someone here would know. For some reason I usually don't seem to be aware of when to change out batteries (yes, I know - I must be numb ) & have even run some IMRs down to 1.8 - not good! Is there something to use that will let me know other than the Kick? Have found it easier to tell with the MNKE batteries than the Pannys, but actually get a stronger hit from the Pannys - both of which have been better for me than the AW IMRs. All are 18650 & am doing .8 - 1 ohm coils, usually chain vape & batteries always get warm to hot. Any input is appreciated. Again, thanks for this thread.

You're going to need to become familiar with your chosen batteries... Check the voltage on them every hour or so, and get an idea of when they drop to unacceptable levels. I would pull and charge IMR batteries @ 3.6v. IMR batteries can become permanently damaged if allowed to over-discharge. If your batteries are getting warm to hot, you need to increase the resistance, or change your vape-style IMO.. I'm not sure which topper you're running.. You may have a short. Are you at least running a fuse in the mech?

Edit: Also, which mech are you using? If you are satisfied with a 1.0 ohm (or below) coil, perhaps a Kick 2 would be right up your alley..

http://www.vapesquad.com/review-evolv-kick-2/

 

[ChainVapitis]

Thanks, Technonut! Have gone from .8 to 1 ohm. Now using SS cable, top wrapped w/ mesh, usually 28g Kanthal & sometimes .5 -.8 ribbon, have used 500 mesh in past. RSST for quite a few months, now. Have checked for shorts by using Provari, multimeter, & pulsing - if there are shorts - I'm not sure how else to tell. Used to use a kick in a "CCTS", but won't fit in these crappy clones (ditched the Segelei 20 & using the TVS from Fasttech). Planning to get a Roller this week. Guess I better dust off the Kick . No, don't have a fuse & guess I better get one if not using the Kick.