Suckers

[SuperStack]

In a way I can see why the markups are fairly high though - we can't forget about the "risk premium" we're paying the sellers here. Far fewer than normal would want to enter the markeplace as a merchant because of that alone I bet, which helps to thwart more competitive pricing. It's a real dicey business to be in for the long haul when the rules can change at any time.

 

[nullbyte]

Aren't we all smoke suckers, literally speaking?
*rimshot*

 

[usehername]

I am surprised nobody from the US has organized a "Bulk buy" The idea seems to be catching on in other countries. It can (and should) be profitable for the person who does the leg work.

 

[equazcion]

In a way I can see why the markups are fairly high though - we can't forget about the "risk premium" we're paying the sellers here. Far fewer than normal would want to enter the markeplace as a merchant because of that alone I bet, which helps to thwart more competitive pricing. It's a real dicey business to be in for the long haul when the rules can change at any time.

First new argument I've heard in a long time. I'm not sure if the risk premium is worth quite as much as that, but good point nonetheless.

 

[equazcion]

I am surprised nobody from the US has organized a "Bulk buy" The idea seems to be catching on in other countries. It can (and should) be profitable for the person who does the leg work.

I was considering it. In fact in another thread I suggested there be a separate section created in this forum for organizing bulk orders. That way people can browse around and look specifically for things they might want to get in on.

 

[trog100]

interestingly enough the sheer unreliability of the product is what makes the high mark up necessary.. they are not ship and forget.. if they were the mark up could half what it is.. they are ship and face a million returns.. all this has to be paid for..

e cigs have been mis sold right from the word go.. or at least after ruyan they have been.. ruyan created them as occasional use devices.. a very high selling price and a consumable lock in at liquid gold prices with a long guarantee.. the consumables financed the long guarantee.. also the high consumables costs ensured the devices never got much use.. a perfect present for the rich wife to buy for hubby who has everything..

most would have ended up in a draw never to be used.. all in all a good money making business model..

these things might well be "hardware" but hardware only really fit for light or occasional use.. they were never designed to replace a 30 a day mans habit..

the honest option would be to sell them as semi disposable items in the first place.. not try and pretend they last longer than they will..

they are not "crap" products.. simply products being sold and used for a purpose they are not fit for.. heavy all day and every day usage..

ruyans original occasional use device has simply been copied and sold to a whole bunch of folk who expect more from it than its capable of delivering..

trog

 

[usehername]

Do it. I think 35% of the gross should be a nice reward for the effort. Still gives the participants one hell of a deal.

 

[equazcion]

the honest option would be to sell them as semi disposable items in the first place.. not try and pretend they last longer than they will..

Yes, that would be a start.

 

[ProStreet]

So you're saying that to make money selling products from your own website, you must have over 100% markup?

That's interesting.

Do you think these things are selling like hotcakes? Time invested, money invested means a markup or else there would be no real profit.

You seem like the type that would look at me like I have 2 heads if I came out to your home and quoted you $60 to cut your 1 acre lot each week. BTW we own a lawncare company so thats why I used that as an example. That sort of thing happens all the time. People think all we are doing is mowing there grass. Well they are correct but they dont take into consideration that each mower cost us $7000 to purchase, they require sharp blades every day, new blades 3 times a year, monthly oil changes, new belts etc etc. Then there is the $20,000 truck and maintenance on that also and gas for all the equipment and truck. Then you have insurance, taxes etc etc etc etc. But nobody seems to think about our operating costs. If only people knew.........

 

[equazcion]

Do you think these things are selling like hotcakes? Time invested, money invested means a markup or else there would be no real profit.

You seem like the type that would look at me like I have 2 heads if I came out to your home and quoted you $60 to cut your 1 acre lot each week. BTW we own a lawncare company so thats why I used that as an example. That sort of thing happens all the time. People think all we are doing is mowing there grass. Well they are correct but they dont take into consideration that each mower cost us $7000 to purchase, they require sharp blades every day, new blades 3 times a year, monthly oil changes, new belts etc etc. Then there is the $20,000 truck and maintenance on that also and gas for all the equipment and truck. Then you have insurance, taxes etc etc etc etc. But nobody seems to think about our operating costs. If only people knew.........

There's overhead involved in any business, and I doubt anyone needed to invest 20 grand for anything in this case. They're selling products from a website via paypal. I know from experience all the costs involved in that.

 

[Frankie]

I think there are just not enough people buying these things. If there were, the number of sellers would increase, some big ones would enter and the unit price would go down. But then the money grabbers would notice this unholy hole in money catching net and more than covered the decrease by brave new taxes.

 

[parked]

There's overhead involved in any business, and I doubt anyone needed to invest 20 grand for anything in this case. They're selling products from a website via paypal. I know from experience all the costs involved in that.

Do you know all the cost involved ???

You might have some idea but not each person or shop could be different

I run 120 online shops and have for 8 years Lots of time and money go into web shops like this. People like you always think you know everything that involved but in reality you don't have a clue!

Come sit with me for a week ! You will have a new found respect for people running business on the web !!! You might have had experience in this area and know some cost but that was your business ! Everyone's business and how they market products is different from shop to shop.

One shop's efforts and time my cost this much on a monthly basis $xxx.xx and another vendors shop efforts and time might cost $x,xxx.xx or $xx,xxx.xx

So you point is not accurate by any means !

Sorry to be a jack ... about this but it really struck a nerve when you said that comment b/c it really is different from shop to shop and you can't know the cost of each vendors cost of running a business month to month.

When I sale 150 products a day and have to get those 150 orders out by mail each day boxed labeled and shipped how much time do you think that takes ?

It's a ****load do you think I bill for my time in the products absolutely not !!

Why? b/c it would not be fair to mark that up to the customer at all.

You have to think of all the work that goes into things like this.

There are many factors involved.

What about a staff you have to pay them that has to come from somewhere

Like I said many many factors


Thanks

Parked

 

[equazcion]

Everyone's business and how they market products is different from shop to shop.

I guess one option is to just sit back and assume that no matter what people charge for anything, it is always appropriate.

Sorry to be a jack ... about this but it really struck a nerve...

That's okay, my comment seems to have struck a nerve with many people here, and I've grown accustomed to the jackass remarks. All I can do is offer my assurance to everyone that my intent was not to offend, but merely to register my frustration.

 

[equazcion]

When I sale 150 products a day and have to get those 150 orders out by mail each day boxed labeled and shipped how much time do you think that takes ?

It's a ****load do you think I bill for my time in the products absolutely not !!

Why? b/c it would not be fair to mark that up to the customer at all.

So you're saying it's unfair to charge more for a product due to the personal labor it has cost you to run your business?

Cause wow, that's the way many people here have been defending the cost, and I agree with them, to a point. You seem to support my argument even more than I do.

 

[Tex]

Parked....
Well My husband and I have been working off the net for almost 5yrs now together and he has been doing it now for 7yrs... A lot of people really don't understand what is involved on a daily basis.. We never sold anything, so I have a lot of respect for the ones like yourself that do and do everything that is involved in doing so. I can imagine what it would involve.. My husband and I have talked about going into a different niche and try on selling products in shops, but do we really want that headache? depending on what it is and how much we could actually make is what will make us make our mind up.

I agree most of the suppliers have a decent markup, nothing compared to the smoking-everywhere crap that is marked up almost 800% from the prices my husband as checked into. In my opinion, anyone that sells their product for more than $60 is a little to much.. Just talking about the dse901s and the pen styles... not the modded ones out there like the SD which is understandable..

Between my husband and I, I know we will save at the least about $3000 a year from our estimates in costs for replacements and liquids....

The first initial costs is of course going to be more expensive, but in the long run it will be a better savings by a long shot..

 

[parked]

So you're saying it's unfair to charge more for a product due to the personal labor it has cost you to run your business?

Cause wow, that's the way many people here have been defending the cost, and I agree with them, to a point. You seem to support my argument even more than I do.

I'm saying they should charge a lot more !!!! but they don't b/c they love us and want to offer us things at great prices so we shop owners eat that cost !

But we love what we do and will do our best to make you happy!

 

[parked]

Parked....
Well My husband and I have been working off the net for almost 5yrs now together and he has been doing it now for 7yrs... A lot of people really don't understand what is involved on a daily basis.. We never sold anything, so I have a lot of respect for the ones like yourself that do and do everything that is involved in doing so. I can imagine what it would involve.. My husband and I have talked about going into a different niche and try on selling products in shops, but do we really want that headache? depending on what it is and how much we could actually make is what will make us make our mind up.

I agree most of the suppliers have a decent markup, nothing compared to the smoking-everywhere crap that is marked up almost 800% from the prices my husband as checked into. In my opinion, anyone that sells their product for more than $60 is a little to much.. Just talking about the dse901s and the pen styles... not the modded ones out there like the SD which is understandable..

Between my husband and I, I know we will save at the least about $3000 a year from our estimates in costs for replacements and liquids....

The first initial costs is of course going to be more expensive, but in the long run it will be a better savings by a long shot..

Yay !!! I person on this board that understands what I'm saying thanks for agreeing with me.

It's very hard and people just don't get it ! There is alot of vendors on this site that have very very fair prices and they should not be reading this crap ! It's a slap in the face to how hard they bust there ... to get things shipped fast and new products out to us customers and offer great prices

I understand the headaches you get from time to time from customs etc.....
Warranty claims .........
Shipping outages sometimes..........
more orders in a day then you can fill the next..............
Things that just happen.......
Marketing efforts..........
Time on the phone with the customer that won't order a product over the net so you take his
order by phone to make him feel better about it........
Keeping up with the never ending e-mails........
Server/ hosting problems from time to time.........
Keeping up with forum threads........
Keeping your eye out for the next best product to offer us at a great price.....
Heading to staples or office depot to buy ink cartridges and paper to print shipping labels....
Making sure you have enough boxes from USPS to put products in .....
& at some point get some sleep to wake up again to start over! ........

You name it i feel for you keep it up you guys are doing a great job ! Don't let one guy spoil your day keep it up !

So thanks vendors you do need a pat on the back ! Job well done i appreciate you !

It's terrible that this thread was even started in the first place

Thanks

Parked

 

[equazcion]

I'm saying they should charge a lot more !!!! but they don't

So you're saying the current cost doesn't factor in labor. Just to be clear. Cause like I said, that's how most people here have been defending the cost, so it's interesting to see someone who thinks labor isn't a factor.

 

[parked]

I'm saying they should charge a lot more !!!! but they don't b/c they love us and want to offer us things at great prices so we shop owners eat that cost !

But we love what we do and will do our best to make you happy!

Number #1 quote the whole thing !

Number # 2 do you not understand a thing absolutely they do

but do you think that covers everything i just listed !!! that's a small fraction of the cost to you they could charge you more.

This is not a 9 to 5 job this a 24/7 job

And your crying b/c what they charge now is to much to you !

 

[equazcion]

Number #1 quote the whole thing !

I did quote the whole thing, or rather, the whole thing as it was before you edited it.

...do you think that covers everything i just listed !!! that's a small fraction of the cost to you they could charge you more...

So the price includes some labor but not all. Some might be due to cost and some due to labor, and we don't know how much of each.

You say I don't know what their costs are. Well it would seem you don't either. You're basically saying "who knows?", and from there making the assumption that the prices have been arrived at fairly because "they love us".

That's awfully trusting of you. But you're entitled to your opinion.