Super sub-ohm

[vapero]

Sorry to derail a bit but...
I know flavor decreases with more airflow, but what about menthol? I guess that doesn't decrease or d does it?

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[Tintreach]

I still find my sweet spot between .5 and .75. Lately I have been dipping lower.

My Helios is set up at .3 dual coil

My modified RSST is at .5 but is blowing through juice too quick so I think I'm going to build another around .75 with a smaller hole but larger than stock.

My patriot wound up .4 last build but I'm ok with it as I don't vape on it a lot.

For me it's all about finding the right balance between vapor, flavor, temperature, humidity, safety and nicotine delivery.

I've got a solid background in electronics so when I started vaping this all made 100% sense to me. Still saftey is the biggest concern and this isn't limited to sub ohm'ing. You can take your face off just as easy with a unprotected battery on a cheap mech with a Protank if you don't understand the basics of a dc circuit.

As a community, it is our job to educate and mentor new people to mitigate accidents. What will not change, there will always be accidents in this and more extreme ones when people push the limits. People won't stop pushing the limits and in an odd way if we didn't have those people I wonder what we would be vaping on now.

It doesn't matter if you leave for work in a Prius or you drive a top fuel dragster. Accidents are going to happen!

 

[awj03130]

Well spoken, Tintreach. As a ham radio operator I have a working basic knowledge of ohm's law and DC circuits.

That being said, the population (vapers included) should strive for more information when we can. I started this thread because I know we identify risk factors and "tolerable risk" in our juice (think custard flavors), but the latter is less true in regards to sub-ohm battery safety, IMO.

Has anyone seen a sign of a battery approaching or experienced an actual battery vent/fail? If so, can you describe your experience, what lead to the event, and the build that was on the atty at the moment?

As a technical diver, I can tell you that accident analysis can save lives. Especially for those who push the envelope.

Grimm Green recently posted a video with an intentionally hard-shorted IMR battery, but I haven't watched it yet. Anyone seen it?

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[Silent Solution]

I was once a huge cloud chaser going for really super sub-ohm builds. After going below .5 with big air holes there were HUGE clouds,but they were of no benefit because I could barely taste my liquid. The lowest I have gone is around .2 and it was killing my 30 amp batteries in no time at all. I shoot for about 1 Ohm in all my builds now (with cotton) unless its a regulated device. The drain on the batteries and the waste of juice with going for that sub-ohm was not worth it, and I really didn't like it anyways. The clouds were nice but I would rather have sub-par clouds (per se) and really get that flavor out. I really think sub-ohms builds will eventually fade away with good builds and better RBA's.Just my 2 cents.

 

[awj03130]

I really think sub-ohms builds will eventually fade away with good builds and better RBA's.Just my 2 cents.

Honestly, from a cloud-chasing perspective, I actually agree with you. I think that development of RBAs with larger, more complex coil systems and regulated devices that can put out a higher amperage such as the DNA30 may "kill" the mech if cost can be brought down and wattage can be brought up. I am trying to get on the prebuy list for a certain very high wattage device currently...

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[Silent Solution]

Honestly, from a cloud-chasing perspective, I actually agree with you. I think that development of RBAs with larger, more complex coil systems and regulated devices that can put out a higher amperage such as the DNA30 may "kill" the mech if cost can be brought down and wattage can be brought up. I am trying to get on the prebuy list for a certain very high wattage device currently...

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I am probably on that same list as you lol . Waiting patiently and checking the classifieds daily.

 

[Tbev]

I prefer a genny at around 0.5 0hm... I think the idea of dripping is just crazy, that's a whole nother argument, but I built a bottom feeder and I want it to be able to handle anything anyone throws at it I've been running it @ 0.33ohm for the past week and I'm sure nothing on the feeder will give it up before a battery vents, I do like that I can run low as I want with a bottom feeder but I still think 0.4ohm is about as low as you can go impo without losing flavor and to me flavor is the goal as well as ease of use.

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[xSKOOBSx]

we need to come out with a mod that puts three 18650s in parallel with rectifier diodes on the heads (for protection) and a voltage/wattage regulator. just to keep these people from blowing their faces off.

personally I think my taifun gt is better than a dripper for sweet, bakery flavors (though it gunks up quick) and my kayfun is better for refreshing flavors like fruits and berries. my dripper just seems like a showy toy, just for putting out a lot of steam. the flavors are either ruined or too intense. no real middle ground.

 

[awj03130]

we need to come out with a mod that puts three 18650s in parallel with rectifier diodes on the heads (for protection) and a voltage/wattage regulator. just to keep these people from blowing their faces off.

Is this from personal experience? I'm still looking for some first hand accounts. I've only seen a select few (and egregiously reposted) pictures of failed batteries.

Also, can someone elaborate on the difference between ICR and IMR when FAILING specifically?


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[Kemosabe]

Honestly, from a cloud-chasing perspective, I actually agree with you. I think that development of RBAs with larger, more complex coil systems and regulated devices that can put out a higher amperage such as the DNA30 may "kill" the mech if cost can be brought down and wattage can be brought up. I am trying to get on the prebuy list for a certain very high wattage device currently...

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the Grand Innovations box?

 

[Kemosabe]

Is this from personal experience? I'm still looking for some first hand accounts. I've only seen a select few (and egregiously reposted) pictures of failed batteries.

Also, can someone elaborate on the difference between ICR and IMR when FAILING specifically?


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what ive read about IMR vs ICR in reference to venting is that the IMR will release a goo and the ICR will burst into flames.

 

[emus]

Is this from personal experience? I'm still looking for some first hand accounts. I've only seen a select few (and egregiously reposted) pictures of failed batteries.

Also, can someone elaborate on the difference between ICR and IMR when FAILING specifically?


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I have first hand accounts of shorted IMR batts getting hot and melting insulation but no fireworks. Most ecig batt venting incidents I'm aware of occurred on charger. I plan to induce venting of my IMR and ICR batts when they are older. I don't think people have gone out of their way to film IMR vs ICR vs etc batt vent; we need a volunteer. Significant sub-ohmer accidents have yet to occur far as I know. Some worry that first sub-ohm accident will ruin vaping for everyone.

 

[awj03130]

the Grand Innovations box?

I can neither confirm nor deny.

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[awj03130]

I have first hand accounts of shorted IMR batts getting hot and melting insulation but no fireworks. Most ecig batt venting incidents I'm aware of occurred on charger. I plan to induce venting of my IMR and ICR batts when they are older. I don't think people have gone out of their way to film IMR vs ICR vs etc batt vent; we need a volunteer. Significant sub-ohmer accidents have yet to occur far as I know. Some worry that first sub-ohm accident will ruin vaping for everyone.

Its funny I was watching a bunch of battery failure videos last night. All of them that exploded were being charged at rediculous charge rates (30 A). Scary things happened next. It'd be nice to know the difference (on video) of what a failing battery does.

If you are volunteering to make the video, I will volunteer several generic blue batteries


Can you tell us more about your melted battery?

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[emus]

Its funny I was watching a bunch of battery failure videos last night. All of them that exploded were being charged at rediculous charge rates (30 A). Scary things happened next. It'd be nice to know the difference (on video) of what a failing battery does.

If you are volunteering to make the video, I will volunteer several generic blue batteries


Can you tell us more about your melted battery?

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Safety first. Caution. For vent test I need a decent camera. I gave mine away to a friend. I plan to put batt at safe distance. Connect long wire to batt. From safe distance roll camera then connect 12v car batt. Then observe firework show; maybe. If no show I'll try connecting car batt reverse polarity. Saftety first. Caution.

I made a stupid mistake or two along the way. One loose batt was supposed to be in empty pocket but it wound up w/ the keys (don't do this). I felt hot pocket. I mean hot. Tossed hot batt on the ground. 1/4th of shrink wrap insulation completely melted off the IMR. I taped her up and used for another year ( don't do this). I practice batt safety now.

 

[awj03130]

Safety first. Caution. For vent test I need a decent camera. I gave mine away to a friend. I plan to put batt at safe distance. Connect long wire to batt. From safe distance roll camera then connect 12v car batt. Then observe firework show; maybe. If no show I'll try connecting car batt reverse polarity. Saftety first. Caution.

I made a stupid mistake or two along the way. One loose batt was supposed to be in empty pocket but it wound up w/ the keys (don't do this). I felt hot pocket. I mean hot. Tossed hot batt on the ground. 1/4th of shrink wrap insulation completely melted off the IMR. I taped her up and used for another year ( don't do this). I practice batt safety now.

I just laughed pretty hard about this. I think there needs to be some comprehensive information for newcomers to the vaping community, like our stickies, widely available so that things like this don't happen. Things like brochures for shops that they can print. It actually happened to my dad as well but since I can't give a first hand account, I won't.

As for the video, I actually did see a video of a guy who wired a brand new car battery to an IMR, and it literally did nothing. I don't know if that was a fluke or not but I'm sure wiring in reverse could compromise the battery ;-)

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[marc42]

cant really work out whether its all about thrashing a given cell type to its limits or achieving high power with this sub ohm thing.
reminds me a bit of tractor pulling.

 

[dylanlg2]

Not Bleeding Edge, pure stupidity

I don't know if I would label it pure stupidity.. .2 isn't outlandish with some of the batteries people are using now... sony 26650's for example. but even on my 26650 with sonys I run .8 cause the flavor is just that much better and the vapor is still great.. I don't think all people who run .2 are stupid though.. they usually just want to push the limits to see what the vape is like, and typically go back up to a more reasonable ohmage like mine

 

[WattWick]

I don't know if I would label it pure stupidity.. .2 isn't outlandish with some of the batteries people are using now... sony 26650's for example. but even on my 26650 with sonys I run .8 cause the flavor is just that much better and the vapor is still great.. I don't think all people who run .2 are stupid though.. they usually just want to push the limits to see what the vape is like, and typically go back up to a more reasonable ohmage like mine

Striving for the lowest resistance is sort of counterproductive tho. If the highest wattage output (and thus evaporating the biggest amount of liquid) is the main objective... all it takes is understanding Ohms law and batteries. A fog machine does not sub-ohm. Sub-ohming is not even close to touching any limit as to how big clouds one can make.

 

[emus]

Striving for the lowest resistance is sort of counterproductive tho. If the highest wattage output (and thus evaporating the biggest amount of liquid) is the main objective... all it takes is understanding Ohms law and batteries. A fog machine does not sub-ohm. Sub-ohming is not even close to touching any limit as to how big clouds one can make.

Pushing limits sometimes seeds progress. There were some sub-ohm naysayers but my sub-ohm coils produce a more dense intense flavor than my supra-ohm. Perhaps super sub-ohm will spark progress; time will tell.