An attorney once told me the best undergraduate degree to prepare oneself for law school is English.
FDA Synthetic nicotine not subject to FDA rules
- Thread starter KODIAK (TM)
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de·rive
dəˈrīv/
verb
past tense: derived; past participle: derived
- obtain something from (a specified source).
"they derived great comfort from this assurance"
synonyms: obtain, get, take, gain, acquire, procure, extract, attain, glean
"he derives consolation from his poetry"- base a concept on a logical extension or modification of (another concept).
mike
It would all depend on how a judge interprets it. But I'm with you... it's murky. The catch here is that technically, devices that use said synthetic nicotine fall under the FDA jurisdiction so in theory it wouldn't matter if the nic came from a urinal in a Baptist church.
Kind of like allowing the sale of ammo but nothing to shoot 'em with.
Synthetic nicotine is already being used in ejuice as per TFN website. Anyone can now buy it, although its costly, through 100mg/mL NTN (Non-tobacco Nicotine) - Wholesale E Cigarette Liquid , Buy liquid nicotine online, Buy E liquid nicotine wholesale
Here you go US LAW101 I've already done mine
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/97-589.pdf
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The website is vague about the cost. Is a 1 liter bottle of 100mg nic $300? That would make it 5 times the cost of what I buy now. Currently my daily cost for nicotine is 3 cents. 6 x that would be 18 cents. I used to pay 30 cents for one of the 25 cigarettes I smoked per day at $6 a pack. Annual cost would be $65 for me. Do I have the pricing right for this product?
Assuming the product slips through the net it is far less expensive than smoking but 5 liters of nic should last me 20 years if it will keep that long and costs $250 at $50 a liter.
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Yep that's right $300 US per litre. It is excellent quality far superior to any nicotine I have had (Nude Nicotine was my preferred till this). I'm not associated with Hiliq, just a happy customer. Just remember it is only 75% active so you will need a little more (i.e. I moved to 4 mg from 3). There have been some chats over on the nicotine comparison thread.
Prices will move down over time, it's only been available for a few weeks. I very much doubt it will go under the radar in the US. However, it has other health and safety benefits over traditional nic.
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The FDA has already addressed the synthetic nicotine issue.
Commonly Asked Questions: About the Center for Tobacco Products
In other words, it's on their radar and if it becomes more widely used, they'll most certainly include it under the aspect of the deeming regulations.
Commonly Asked Questions: About the Center for Tobacco Products
In other words, it's on their radar and if it becomes more widely used, they'll most certainly include it under the aspect of the deeming regulations.
Anyone see the parallel with bathtub gin during prohibition? Make it at home for personal use and hope the ingredients are safe. These days FDA certification ensures quality, but the FDA is also selective in practice (and biased by the tax money contribution from tobacco companies).
Free market principles would make vaping even more cheaper than smoking if it weren't for the high cost of tightly focused FDA regulation.
Free market principles would make vaping even more cheaper than smoking if it weren't for the high cost of tightly focused FDA regulation.
@retired1 FDA representatives have made a few comments concerning nicotine
not obtained from tobacco. Some statements have been guarded.Some neutral.
Some statements such as nicotine from non-tobacco sources (Zeller I believe)
can't be regulated are out right lies.
I have read the deeming regulations. No where is it even hinted that nicotine
from non-tobacco sources or,zero nic juice cannot be regulated. The Deeming Reg's
are one giant circular argument. Everything is covered. "Made or derived from"
covers everything. In the OP's article the FDA did not say synthetic nicotine can
not be regulated. If made or,derived from excluded synthetic nicotine the FDA
would have said as much.IMHO
Regards
Mike
not obtained from tobacco. Some statements have been guarded.Some neutral.
Some statements such as nicotine from non-tobacco sources (Zeller I believe)
can't be regulated are out right lies.
I have read the deeming regulations. No where is it even hinted that nicotine
from non-tobacco sources or,zero nic juice cannot be regulated. The Deeming Reg's
are one giant circular argument. Everything is covered. "Made or derived from"
covers everything. In the OP's article the FDA did not say synthetic nicotine can
not be regulated. If made or,derived from excluded synthetic nicotine the FDA
would have said as much.IMHO
Regards
Mike
You all are splitting hairs.
Future politics aside for now... if the FBA (Federal Behavior Administration) continues its overreach they'll tackle synthetic nic in the same convoluted way they are handling everything else up to this point. As long as there's any connection to anything that looks like smoking great effort will be made to purge it from our society.
I just scared myself into buying another liter.
Future politics aside for now... if the FBA (Federal Behavior Administration) continues its overreach they'll tackle synthetic nic in the same convoluted way they are handling everything else up to this point. As long as there's any connection to anything that looks like smoking great effort will be made to purge it from our society.
I just scared myself into buying another liter.
You all are splitting hairs.
Future politics aside for now... if the FBA (Federal Behavior Administration) continues its overreach they'll tackle synthetic nic in the same convoluted way they are handling everything else up to this point. As long as there's any connection to anything that looks like smoking great effort will be made to purge it from our society.
I just scared myself into buying another liter.
Hair splitting is what got us here in a struggle with FDA rulings. If government followed a logical process to determine which source of nicotine is healthier we wouldn't be fighting a battle over vaping.
Does ejuice have a history of medical complications and death? Is nicotine a harmful product when used by vapers to achieve the same result as nicotine gum (which is legal and recommended)?
OTOH, are cigarettes detrimental to health? Is there a history of death and disability associated with tobacco cigarettes?
Which one should be attacked based on health concerns? Why isn't it? Oh wait! It's a political battle based on government tobacco tax receipts and tobacco settlement payments to states for past medical problems created by smoking.
Follow the money ...
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if "derived" means obtained from, that just leaves nicotine and nothing more.
whoever implied this is right.......... you can buy high octane ejuice for the same price and dilute it at home.
the .gov can make ejuice not legal to sell, but there's a whole lot more involved than ejuice. and other than nicotine, nothing is derived from tobacco. now who takes care of people that say, for example "water flows uphill" and expects us all to take that as a fact and go to jail if one says "water doesn't run uphill"?
whoever implied this is right.......... you can buy high octane ejuice for the same price and dilute it at home.
the .gov can make ejuice not legal to sell, but there's a whole lot more involved than ejuice. and other than nicotine, nothing is derived from tobacco. now who takes care of people that say, for example "water flows uphill" and expects us all to take that as a fact and go to jail if one says "water doesn't run uphill"?
Skoony often argues that the FDA is planning/attempting to use the following definition...
base a concept on a logical extension or modification of (another concept)
@DC2 I base this on my assessment going back to the comment period
on the (then) proposed deeming regulations. IMHO the FDA along with their
cohorts in BP,BT, and the alphabet non-profits and,states bleeding cigarette
tax revenue are going co-opt vaping in its entirety. Sealed carto cigalikes
only for BT. Regulated mods for BP for those that want to quit. Taxs proportionally
higher than a pack of cigarettes. Regulatory hurdles to high for any existing
traditional e- cigarette vendor to meet. On top of all this when every thing is
and done and the dust settles 3-5 years form now they will. have life long costumers
who will not be getting COPD,cancer or, any of the other serious illnesses
associated with smoking cigarettes.
My philosophy is when dealing with the written words in the regulations always
assume their meaning to have the strictest and or worst outcome for those
the regulations are meant to regulate. Ultimately we are the ones to be regulated.
Regards
Mike
on the (then) proposed deeming regulations. IMHO the FDA along with their
cohorts in BP,BT, and the alphabet non-profits and,states bleeding cigarette
tax revenue are going co-opt vaping in its entirety. Sealed carto cigalikes
only for BT. Regulated mods for BP for those that want to quit. Taxs proportionally
higher than a pack of cigarettes. Regulatory hurdles to high for any existing
traditional e- cigarette vendor to meet. On top of all this when every thing is
and done and the dust settles 3-5 years form now they will. have life long costumers
who will not be getting COPD,cancer or, any of the other serious illnesses
associated with smoking cigarettes.
My philosophy is when dealing with the written words in the regulations always
assume their meaning to have the strictest and or worst outcome for those
the regulations are meant to regulate. Ultimately we are the ones to be regulated.
Regards
Mike
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