Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[turbocad6]

Russ, funny you should say that brother, that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I decided to build one was I should make 2 at the same time and send one to russ, only reason I didn't was because I figured after building the first one I may come up with ideas to improve it, first prototype usually leaves some room for improvement after it's built and tested.

then as I started to build it, it just got more and more complicated... I usually don't spend the time to design my ideas fully before I start to build something creative, instead I just make a list of what I want to achieve and then dive in and let the work dictate it's direction... figure it out as I go I guess...

here my list was kind of demanding and the list grew as I designed and built it. here's the final list of what I want from this thing:

1) variable adjustable tension like a fishing reel but while utilizing the stock temco wire reels so any gage or wire type can be swapped easily
2) no set up/take down time to use it. no clamping to the table, must be able to use anywhere
3) must be easier to make a coil than just spinning a handle while pinching a wire
4) must not require any extra wraps that need to be unwound afterwards. must be able to count the wraps and duplicate easily for foolproof matching duals every time
5) must allow for any size ID I want, must be easy to change between different ID's
6) must allow for precise spaced wraps as well as adhered contact coils in both cw and ccw direction
7) must be variable speed and must be powered by a single 18650
8) must have high enough torque to be able to slow wind yet still reach the limits of wire stretch without stalling
9) must be very compact yet sturdy and indestructible. build it once and then use it forever
10) must not be ugly... my wife already complains about my vape crap all over my night stand, must not be an eye sore to look at if I leave it laying on my table


if theres anything you think I'm overlooking I'm all ears I had to push some of my crazier ideas out of the way for now, stuff like an auto wind counter and a built in tension gage have been pushed off of the list for the moment, it's complicated enough by needing a 3.7V motor and a gear reduction transmission to multiply torque, don't want to make it too complicated

 

[MacTechVpr]

Russ, funny you should say that brother, that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I decided to build one was I should make 2 at the same time and send one to russ, only reason I didn't was because I figured after building the first one I may come up with ideas to improve it, first prototype usually leaves some room for improvement after it's built and tested.

then as I started to build it, it just got more and more complicated... I usually don't spend the time to design my ideas fully before I start to build something creative, instead I just make a list of what I want to achieve and then dive in and let the work dictate it's direction... figure it out as I go I guess...

Numero Uno, #1.

Feed parallel and multi wire!

Ok, ok…I'll make my own.



Good luck.

 

[turbocad6]

ha, that's one thing I've never done is parallel wraps, with regulated devices never found a need... to do parallels with this jig would require dual reels. can you give me a reason that parallels would be beneficial with a regulated device? I could add that at this point if it would be a benefit but it would make the device larger. how would parallels benefit me?

 

[super_X_drifter]

Russ, funny you should say that brother, that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I decided to build one was I should make 2 at the same time and send one to russ, only reason I didn't was because I figured after building the first one I may come up with ideas to improve it, first prototype usually leaves some room for improvement after it's built and tested.

then as I started to build it, it just got more and more complicated... I usually don't spend the time to design my ideas fully before I start to build something creative, instead I just make a list of what I want to achieve and then dive in and let the work dictate it's direction... figure it out as I go I guess...

here my list was kind of demanding and the list grew as I designed and built it. here's the final list of what I want from this thing:

1) variable adjustable tension like a fishing reel but while utilizing the stock temco wire reels so any gage or wire type can be swapped easily
2) no set up/take down time to use it. no clamping to the table, must be able to use anywhere
3) must be easier to make a coil than just spinning a handle while pinching a wire
4) must not require any extra wraps that need to be unwound afterwards. must be able to count the wraps and duplicate easily for foolproof matching duals every time
5) must allow for any size ID I want, must be easy to change between different ID's
6) must allow for precise spaced wraps as well as adhered contact coils in both cw and ccw direction
7) must be variable speed and must be powered by a single 18650
8) must have high enough torque to be able to slow wind yet still reach the limits of wire stretch without stalling
9) must be very compact yet sturdy and indestructible. build it once and then use it forever
10) must not be ugly... my wife already complains about my vape crap all over my night stand, must not be an eye sore to look at if I leave it laying on my table


if theres anything you think I'm overlooking I'm all ears I had to push some of my crazier ideas out of the way for now, stuff like an auto wind counter and a built in tension gage have been pushed off of the list for the moment, it's complicated enough by needing a 3.7V motor and a gear reduction transmission to multiply torque, don't want to make it too complicated

I'm down. And ready with contributions to offset your efforts. Damn. This'll be a killer video too

 

[Katya]

ok, so after seeing all these high tension wrapping setups with reels and winders and discussing the difference of formed vs tension I decided I'd build a simple tension rig to really see if there is a difference for me,

only problem is my brain don't do simple

 

[Katya]

Katya, you are also right that few will make the effort to build a coiler jig as complex as mine, but one doesn't need to do that to achieve great results. The existing $15 coilers on the market do a fine job of making a great coil, and I started with one myself and then it evolved to the coiler you see now. Because I have a wood shop and build a lot of things by hand, the BMV coiler was not a big effort for me, but I understand your point, and agree! I am glad to hear about your rebuilding efforts and hope you enjoy the vape that you get from making your own!

Right. Baby steps.

I'm off to Lowe's for some wingnuts and such to rig my gizmo... And to Ace for 2mm and 2.5mm music wire.

Wish me luck.

BTW, I also need to get a screw that cig used in his cigamajig. He says it's a #8 retainer screw. Since carpentry is not my forte, does anyone know what exactly I need to ask for at the store? It looks like it comes with some kind of a washer...

 

[Katya]

then as I started to build it, it just got more and more complicated... I usually don't spend the time to design my ideas fully before I start to build something creative, instead I just make a list of what I want to achieve and then dive in and let the work dictate it's direction... figure it out as I go I guess...

here my list was kind of demanding and the list grew as I designed and built it. here's the final list of what I want from this thing:

1) variable adjustable tension like a fishing reel but while utilizing the stock temco wire reels so any gage or wire type can be swapped easily
2) no set up/take down time to use it. no clamping to the table, must be able to use anywhere
3) must be easier to make a coil than just spinning a handle while pinching a wire
4) must not require any extra wraps that need to be unwound afterwards. must be able to count the wraps and duplicate easily for foolproof matching duals every time
5) must allow for any size ID I want, must be easy to change between different ID's
6) must allow for precise spaced wraps as well as adhered contact coils in both cw and ccw direction
7) must be variable speed and must be powered by a single 18650
8) must have high enough torque to be able to slow wind yet still reach the limits of wire stretch without stalling
9) must be very compact yet sturdy and indestructible. build it once and then use it forever
10) must not be ugly... my wife already complains about my vape crap all over my night stand, must not be an eye sore to look at if I leave it laying on my table

I'm a minimalist.

if theres anything you think I'm overlooking I'm all ears I had to push some of my crazier ideas out of the way for now, stuff like an auto wind counter and a built in tension gage have been pushed off of the list for the moment, it's complicated enough by needing a 3.7V motor and a gear reduction transmission to multiply torque, don't want to make it too complicated

KISS. I believe in simplicity.

Good luck! I'll be waiting.

 

[Katya]

Numero Uno, #1.

Feed parallel and multi wire!

Ok, ok…I'll make my own.



Good luck.

+1.

Proper tension. Still trying to figure it out.

 

[MacTechVpr]

ha, that's one thing I've never done is parallel wraps, with regulated devices never found a need... to do parallels with this jig would require dual reels. can you give me a reason that parallels would be beneficial with a regulated device? I could add that at this point if it would be a benefit but it would make the device larger. how would parallels benefit me?

Seriously something like that compact not too complex to handle multi wire would be huge. I'm lookin' at the horizon seein' those days comin' for me.

Here's what I'm talkin' about…superlative thin wire surface area, ultra-fast firing, excellent turn-to-turn stability with twisted leads…as in this wind I've been posting (below)...30AWG TLP 6/5, 2.5mm i.d., 9mm L/L, t.m.c. = .5Ω

At 15W approaching full charge batt vapor levels of a mech. Very high density despite the very airy vape of the SubMini which is like tryin' to vape with the cap off the dripper. Only thing comparable in my bag is the MutX with a big bore tip.

I was diggin' parallels early on but they start to distort the second you take 'em off the bit. Hard to maintain symmetry and less for the leads. Minute that happens you start to go hot, dry like a loose post. Great if you can tolerate that kind of heat but I can't or with the disproportionate loss of flavor. Worse, it just don't vape. So I gave 'em up for a good long time until I was inspired by Matty's twisted center post duals last summer.

My fav personal vape has been t/p so I really thought about this…how to stabilize parallels. Notice the very uniform heating which distinctly ends at the start of twist. All the flavor advantage of wire mass, max the surface area for the resistance and all the flavor you would expect from the vapor density boost.

Please…don't take my word for it.

It's not the warm vape or the cool; it's what you wish straight wire would do at that resistance.



Enjoy the vape.

p.s. Suggestion gang, what about a ceramic guide to line up a feed from two spools?
p.s.s. And sorry turbo for the backstory fill in for those just landing here. You know I talk to the bleachers.

 

[etherealink]

I posted this information about the coiler I use last summer. Seems like a little revival here about different coiler options, so I just wanted to throw this out, in case anyone is interested. There are certainly a lot more options today. I do like both the side tension and drag on the reel in conjunction with the coiler. Produces great tensioned micro coils super quick. I will add additional drag to the reel sometimes with gentle finger pressure on the reel. I can get it to any level of tension I like this way. Like Supe, I don't make coils for fun, but because I need to for vaping. This is much easier than doing it by hand, for me.

Here's the Coiler Pics:

View attachment 412577View attachment 412578

That last picture (lower right) is where this all started. It's come a ways. Has a ways to go. We shall see where this leads.

Some Combo shots of the coil at the Mandrel/Chuck. Notice the leg catcher with the spring. This feature makes it very quick to wrap the coil. The alternative is usually to get the wire into the chuck jaws and tighten. I have found this difficult and time-consuming. I want my coils right now, right?

View attachment 412579

Upper Left: Wide shot of the mandrel at the post and chuck connections.
Upper Right: Shot of the spring-loaded leg catcher on the 1/16" drill stop collar.
Lower Left: Close up of the coil while winding. The first two, or three, coils are generally removed.
Lower Right: The Coil just cut from the Spooler. Causes the loss of a half wrap.

Here's the reason the coiler is so important to our wraps. Even though the coils in the first picture below are "touching," you can see that the pitch is different on the first four or five coils, than on the last four or five coils. For this reason, the coil has to be overwrapped, and then the first two, plus an additional four or five coils are removed with the pliers at 90 degrees to the coil and literally pulled off the coil, leaving the very tight coil like you see in the last picture below.

View attachment 412580

Upper Left: Close up of coil after removal from both the leg-catcher and the spooler.
Upper Right: Another close-up of a different coil.
Lower Left: Notice the pitch change at the far right.
Lower Right: Close-up of the pitch change. Concerning...

Notice that the pitch of the coil changes as we remove the coils (Lower Right in picture above), presumably for the purpose of improving the wrap. So, I decided to try to improve the tension from the side and added another spring-loaded drill stop:

View attachment 412581

Upper Left: Tension added from the side at the wrap.
Upper Right: Coils are not only touching, but being literally squeezed together at the wrap.
Lower Left: Remove Spooler tension and remove coils while still under side tension.
Lower Right: Finished coil.

Ok, that turned out to be a pretty good ten coil wrap. Tensioned through drag from the reel spooler and from the side with a spring loaded drill stop, then unwrapped while under side tension. Needless to say, this coil does not need to be additionally "formed" through the use of a torch.

However, as we examine the photos at super close-up, we do see a lot of imperfections on the surface of the wire. These imperfections will be very detrimental to our metallic oxide layer formation when we pulse the coil. Ideally, by pulsing the coil, we can add up to three layers of alumina (the metallic oxide that forms on kanthal after heating). This alumina layer is critical for us to achieve what SuperX calls the "Effect." The effect will be discussed in another blog (someday). For now, our work with this coiler is almost done. I would like to add an adjustable guide pulley from the spooler to the mandreal. Right now I do that function by hand, but it doesn't need to be that way. I would like to automate as much of the process as possible, so that when I do find my perfect coil, I can repeat it.

Thank you State O'Flux for naming the coiler. Ok, the BMV Coiler 2.0 Parts List:

ParaWire Cobra Coiler: Cobra Coiler | ParaWire
1/16" Stainless Steel Mandrel: Aura Visual Concepts, Inc.. Almost Indestructible Mandrels
Fuller 1/16" Drill Stop Collar: 1/16 DRILL STOP - Jigs - Amazon.com
Misc. 8/32 x 1/2" Machine screw, spring, L metal and washer
Crystal River Cahill Fly Reel: Amazon.Amazon.com : Crystal River Cahill Cahill Rim Fly Reel : Fishing Reels : Sports & Outdoors
Mounts for Fly Reel: http://www.walmart.com/ip/24775805?www=true&productRedirect=true

So, materials cost is about $75.00, plus shipping. Additional reels for different wire gauges are extra. I have two for 28 and 29 gauge. Also, a piece of scrap wood or whatever to mount the jig. Anyway, that's the story. Good luck!

Bill, I know I've seen it before but thanks for the link for the cobra coiler. It saves me from fabricating one from scratch.

I work with larger gauge wire so I went with a more standard reel, the Zebco 303. I'm planning to modify it to remove part of the casing and use it as the tension controller the way you're doing.

Pictures when I get it set up.

 

[Chingas]

abuncha science wurds..

View attachment 413015View attachment 413016View attachment 413017

Lurker from the bleachers says howdy and thank you. The even heat distribution on those coils is ... lovely. I need a fishing reel now and to send my old reo in to be refurbished and lp'd while i figure out which bfrda to get. Odin, nuppin or does derringer make one? I dunno...i have so much old rebuildable crap that my trembling hands have kept me from for years (scubabatdan, geni line, sturm, thus and forth).

I don't care about the best i just need something that works and is repeatable. You can't be the son of the guy who was sent in to head up the repair job on the Grand Coulee dam without learning something him.

Very interesting and inspiring thread peeps.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Lurker from the bleachers says howdy and thank you. The even heat distribution on those coils is ... lovely. I need a fishing reel now and to send my old reo in to be refurbished and lp'd while i figure out which bfrda to get. Odin, nuppin or does derringer make one? I dunno...i have so much old rebuildable crap that my trembling hands have kept me from for years (scubabatdan, geni line, sturm, thus and forth).

I don't care about the best i just need something that works and is repeatable. You can't be the son of the guy who was sent in to head up the repair job on the Grand Coulee dam without learning something him.

Very interesting and inspiring thread peeps.

Thanks C. A blast from the more recent past, the most capable zAtty from steammonkey donned with tensioned vert's. What a PIA it was to get these right watchin' RT and Z's videos. Tho Rip's smokin' papers mesh wrap was pretty snazzy trick (guess they don't cal 'im trip for nothin'). Lance I think gave up on the vapor prospects never emphasized duals on the zAtty as hard as it seemed to tame just one vert on this incredible device. Anyway, here's the flash…

So here's another device where the relatively anemic output was extraordinarily pumped by stabilizing vert winds with tension. No more shorting, perfect symmetry, impressive wire and res stability. And the second most vapor productive device I have next to the Raiju/4nine fast firing parallel honey I mentioned earlier. It runs at a modest .45Ω with outstanding volume using an airflow tip to draw out that concentration. Just sayin'. New life for those old Genny's, for sure.

(And that's Nextel ceramic wick. It don't waft massive like a rayon leaf fire with the cap off. Put some vacuum and decent airflow on it and a lotta chuckers can't handle the density. BTW, the above's been runnin' half a year, and the wick in 4 devices for months previously. About time for a redo.)

I'm not hypin' a wind here C, but a physical factor. One that's very helpful to those of us with mechanical control issues in particular.

There are a lot of great really inspiring builders on OCF. Many who've been a role model for me and many, many others. They've all demonstrated the importance of symmetry and proper electric winds over and over. Now, optimizing the oxidizing factors that make these examples extraordinary gives us ordinary folks the chance to join their ranks.

That's what I care about. Squonkin's great, no offense sup, but there's awesome new and legacy gear out there once you have stability and production. I say, go retro and get surprised.

Those who weren't around a couple'a three years back or more don't realize what folks went through to stabilize winds, don't realize how lucky they are that micro's have made making vaporizers so attainable and functional for most of us. Tension just makes it that much easier and better…not just for the young bucks at .2Ω but for peeps like us.

Good luck C

 

[super_X_drifter]

That's what I care about. Squonkin's great, no offense sup, but there's awesome new and legacy gear out there once you have stability and production. I say, go retro and get surprised.

I hear ya brother but juice delivery is just one more aspect I like to be in control of - how much, when, where - all that.

I like surprises too (like Christmas presents and valentines gifts) but like "surprise DRY HIT" type of surprises or "surprise I JUST LEAKED ALL IN YOUR POCKET" type - nah, I'll pass. If I ever got bored enough to experiment there's always that damn basement to clean

I get unsurprisingly identical and satisfying vape from all four of my squeeze boxes - just like a Marlboro light only better and as long as I'm able to stick my thumb in the hole and press the bottle, squonking is the only way this kid's rollin

 

[Flavored]

I'm a minimalist.



KISS. I believe in simplicity.

Good luck! I'll be waiting.

Simplicity at its best/worst:

I wanted to try 2.5 mm coils, as some in Aqua land were getting great results and better wick life. The Gizmo comes with 1.5 and 3 (with 3 others) in one kit, 2 and 3 in the other. I grabbed the micrometer and started checking my coat hangers, finally found one at 2.4. Made myself a new mandrel and 2 3" pins to make the dual coil installation a breeze.

Tension? I grab the wire with needle nose and pull straight down with enough force to make the wire sound like a banjo string. Guarantee the force I use would reel in a shark (that was for you, SupX). Pulling down keeps me from ripping the Gizmo off the counter.

I get 5-6 tanks now, flavor is outstanding. I know this is a micro-coil thread, too, the post is more about simple technique. Larger contact coils in that device at least, do provide a very nice, efficient vape. Rayon wicking, btw, must be a heat to wick volume thing.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Simplicity at its best/worst:

I wanted to try 2.5 mm coils, as some in Aqua land were getting great results and better wick life. The Gizmo comes with 1.5 and 3 (with 3 others) in one kit, 2 and 3 in the other. I grabbed the micrometer and started checking my coat hangers, finally found one at 2.4. Made myself a new mandrel and 2 3" pins to make the dual coil installation a breeze.

Tension? I grab the wire with needle nose and pull straight down with enough force to make the wire sound like a banjo string. Guarantee the force I use would reel in a shark (that was for you, SupX). Pulling down keeps me from ripping the Gizmo off the counter.

I get 5-6 tanks now, flavor is outstanding. I know this is a micro-coil thread, too, the post is more about simple technique. Larger contact coils in that device at least, do provide a very nice, efficient vape. Rayon wicking, btw, must be a heat to wick volume thing.

Words of wisdom from the man who first publicized the use of the Artistic Wire Coil Gizmo as a means to make vaping coils.

I can only imagine how Artistic Wires' sales of this gadget, once used solely by grandmothers and young girls, has prolly skyrocketed to a level of insanity because of the vape world.

If'n I were them, I'd investigate "why this spike in the last year or so?"

Then I'd reach out to those who helped shatter even the most optimistic sales projections and give back.

I'd also develop a vapers model and make a version with rods suited to all vapers (not just me and many others) improve the hoop dealio, and include the hardware. I would continue to sell directly, not sell to any vape supply dealers and limit quantities to two per order

 

[Flavored]

Yessir, you’re right, I’d sure be finding out why. The Gizmo, KGD/Shesiedo cotton pads, and the Sally’s cellucotton boxes, we’d be millionaires (well, thousandaires, at least) if we hadn’t let so many cats out of the bag, re-packaged that stuff with some fancy name from the dark ages, and put up a website selling them.

Of course, Fastech would be selling clones of them in no time.

 

[twolostminds]

Saw this line winder and thought I'd drop it here for ideas on how to add a tensioner to kanthal spools?

Also, has anyone looked into old RF Coil winders? I remember when I was a kid building a radio at summer camp. We wound our own RF coils on a jig that kept tension on the copper wire. I've been looking onine but haven't found any yet.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Ok, Mac, so you agree that we can make optimal coils by hand or by jig. You're right, I didn't get that from your posts, and I appreciate you clarifying that! Jigs can be complex, but don't need to be, necessarily, but they work wonders for those of us whose hand strength, and/or flexibility may be impaired. The whole purpose of my coiler is to make the process easier and quicker, not more difficult, but also to achieve a great vape. In this regard, it excels, imho, for me!...

Yes, I certainly did Ollie.

Hey Bill, on the orig micro thread you said...

The next thing I'm going to do is vape this coil. Then I'm going to order a push/pull gauge. Force is measured in newtons, so that is what I'll be working with on this jig. As I develop different setups, I'll record my results and post the data here for all to see. Beats hand wrapping for me. Blind with arthritis, I need the help. Just sayin'....YMMV.

Did you ever get there, able to adapt anything? I remember something about some kind of graduation. Perhaps from a chat.



Good luck all.

 

[Katya]

Simplicity at its best/worst:

I wanted to try 2.5 mm coils, as some in Aqua land were getting great results and better wick life. The Gizmo comes with 1.5 and 3 (with 3 others) in one kit, 2 and 3 in the other. I grabbed the micrometer and started checking my coat hangers, finally found one at 2.4. Made myself a new mandrel and 2 3" pins to make the dual coil installation a breeze.

What I need, at least for the time being, is a gizmo that will make 2 mm and ~2.4 mm coils, both touching and spaced. The deluxe (5-rod gizmo) doesn't come with a 2 mm rod, so I bought the Econo Gizmo with two rods at Joann's because I read in a different thread that it comes with a 2 mm rod--it doesn't. The rods in the Econo version are 1.6 mm and 3 mm, unfortunately. So my only option is to mod a hanger. And no way to make evenly spaced spaced coils of similar size.

Plan B--get the Professional Gizmo with a chuck, which will accept any mandrel size.

Plan C--make cigatron's cigamajig. Oy...

Plan D--try to learn how to use my pin vise. The problem--the pin vise I got from Amazon is not very good and for some reason the 3 mm chuck doesn't work (I can't tighten it all the way no matter how hard I try, for some reason). Which means I'd have to buy another pin vise.

Tension? I grab the wire with needle nose and pull straight down with enough force to make the wire sound like a banjo string. Guarantee the force I use would reel in a shark (that was for you, SupX). Pulling down keeps me from ripping the Gizmo off the counter.

Right.



I guess I wasn't applying enough tension after all.

I get 5-6 tanks now, flavor is outstanding. I know this is a micro-coil thread, too, the post is more about simple technique. Larger contact coils in that device at least, do provide a very nice, efficient vape. Rayon wicking, btw, must be a heat to wick volume thing.

Right.

I need help.

 

[Flavored]

I abandoned that technique, just holding the reel, although it did work just fine . .

Y'know, if you wrap two wires at a time, side by side, and carefully, then "unscrew" them from each other, you'll have evenly spaced coils. Matching tension is a pickle, but, heck, that's over-rated . . .

*ducks*

Edited to add: My smaller Gizmo set did include a 2 mm, although it mics out just a smidge under. The 3 mm and 1.5 were spot on.