"how are you securing your wire to the weight? Vise grips?"
3 each 2 1/2# plates for a total of 7.5 pounds. So far I've only wound a few coils but it's working great.
Damn bro…watcha windin' twisted clapton's?
Good luck.
Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
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Damn bro…watcha windin' twisted clapton's?
Good luck.
If i could figure out how to accurately gauge resistance before i wrapped them. I would give it a shotDamn bro watcha windin' twisted clapton's?
Good luck.
This is 28 or 29 gauge. I believe the black shadow down below is the weights hanging. I start off with about 4' of wire with the weights just off the floor. I can wrap four or five coils before the eye bolts gets up to the edge of the table. I did put some two strand twisted 32 gauge on the gizmo with the same 7 1/2 pounds and it was a touch too much. I broke three coils. The tension did help to keep the twisted coil closer to mandrel size once cut free but other than that I don't think there is much advantage to applying tension to twisted wire. It felt strange at first letting the weight down -I could feel the twisted strands stretching.
For basic TMC's though I've been impressed with the weights. I was off making great coils right off the bat.
I've been wanting to build but these coils are working so good I can't tear them out. I have a new atty on the way and I may experiment with some 26 gauge I have to see how a little thicker wire responds on the gizmo.
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You may have mentioned it previously, and I missed it, but what dia. mandrel are you using? I use mainly 29 & 30gauge wire on a .078 mandrel. I would also like to see a pic of the attachment of the wire to the eye bolt. Thanks.
Yep that's the size I'm using .078" diameter. To attach the wire I just loop it through the eye bolt once or twice and then twist the wire around itself a bunch of times. The key is to hold the mandrel steady with one hand and slowly let the weights down with the other. Very easy at first until you're sure the twists through the eye bolt hold. Once I've got the number of winds I'm after I set the weights on a chair sitting close by. Then snip the coil free and there is slack in the wire to make reattachment easy for the next coil.
LOL! My old brain keeps wondering if there are any smaller 7# weights out there. 
This is 28 or 29 gauge. I believe the black shadow down below is the weights hanging. I start off with about 4' of wire with the weights just off the floor. I can wrap four or five coils before the eye bolts gets up to the edge of the table. I did put some two strand twisted 32 gauge on the gizmo with the same 7 1/2 pounds and it was a touch too much. I broke three coils. The tension did help to keep the twisted coil closer to mandrel size once cut free but other than that I don't think there is much advantage to applying tension to twisted wire. It felt strange at first letting the weight down -I could feel the twisted strands stretching.
For basic TMC's though I've been impressed with the weights. I was off making great coils right off the bat.
I've been wanting to build but these coils are working so good I can't tear them out. I have a new atty on the way and I may experiment with some 26 gauge I have to see how a little thicker wire responds on the gizmo.
That's all that I've used mech jigs for, thick gauge and multi-wire. Although tensioning parallels and twisted to 28 AWG is possible. Consistency manually decreases with mass. Human sensitivity to strain starts to get dicey below 24 AWG. That's where those here experimenting with mech solutions need to think strain gauge (drag). But for higher it's easy to detect where "sticky" lives (closest turn proximity). In your case with static strain loads…I've known a few of great old school piano tuners (and I've tuned more than a few fine guitars myself).
Nice piece of work there BE. If you want to talk insulation for that beauty PM me.
Good luck.
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If oxidation is what defines the efficacy of a proper heating element for vaporization, how do we practically get it? That was the fundamental underlying question of my research on strain and coil generation. But close contact coils are a dilemma representing what is effectively a virtual short. It occurred to me that uniformity of the geometry was essential to a solution. And tension winding common to so many crafts and trades, the logical adaptation. Literally encyclopedias has been written on the subject of alumina but we were in a state of gestation here two years ago. The physics affirming the potential advantages of The Effect were understood if not yet the reliable mechanics of how to achieve them in practice.
Had occasion yesterday to do a quick build for a friend I'm trying to persuade to dump analogs entirely and rebuild. Ran into a common anomaly to show you as an example of how crucial consistent strain symmetry is. Built this 26 AWG, D/C, 10/9, 2.5mm t.m.c. @ .614Ω...
I'm at a stage in rebuilding where better than 75% of my builds are on point. That's pretty much reflected by the coil in the background (below). End turn congruity is not a problem. I have a few simple approaches in butting end turns always when localizing them in the set. Clamping as well when making any adjustment to the element directly, i.e. introducing a bend, twining leads, etc. However, there is always the unexpected miscalculation when working with such small articles. Especially for an old codger like me. So I'm big on winding another, if I haven't already. Far less work in the long run.
The foreground pic though under magnification shows a critical error — an errant end turn. It seems at some point early in the oxidation process I sheepishly must admit to torquing the center post having removed the bit. Only slightly mind you but obviously just enough to introduce some inward strain at the bottom of the lower right end turn.
Usually I'm turning out pairs that begin to glow uniformly end-to-end at low power and consistently oxidize as evident by color. The end turns always being somewhat cooler take longer. On a 10-turn if six at the center have achieved uniformity it's good enough to vape leaving the end turn pairs to burn in with the coil break-in. As you approach end turn oxidation you should already be seeing a red temp zone lighting up fairly evenly end-to-end.
In this instance I should have been clued in as the foreground coil started to oxidize faster and more uniformly than the back wind. This uneven advance of oxidation confirms even if not yet apparent from fired wire color that the most rapidly oxidizing element is hotter and regrettably flawed. Realizing this too late the coils began to go unbalanced in color temp. A slight difference in applied strain between the leads caused a forward separation of the turn which skewed with heat. At this point there is no use but to go to ceramic tweezers to reign in the asymmetry or discard. You can resort to constraining heat by compression of the distorted element which I did and salvaged this daily use pair. This requires more heat and so best left to last couple of longer burns as voltage is increased. Meantime minute delicate squeezes on (pressure against) the end turn as oxidation pulsing continues.
Short story is that oxidation color is our friend. It is both the goal and the means, iinduced by low power and patient pulsing to allow oxygenation in time with repeated cooling. It's a key instrument to perfecting the solution. And an important one to identify failure.
Distortions in a properly wound t.m.c. (tensioned microcoil) are subtle. Magnification is required (lets be honest) and any skew should be rejected (almost always gets worse). Most are wire imperfections which can spontaneously cause warping due to uneven (diameter) heating as you pulse and oxidize. Not much to be done about that but as above. Secondly, anytime localizing an end turn or setting it there must be strain approximating that of the wind applied. That is while on the bit or pin vise pulling the wire away from the post or termination point until the terminal is secure. That's what most helps avert deformation. But if you've got a slightly out-of-round (thin) segment there not much you can do to prevent it. It will go hot and distort.
Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it.
Good luck!
Had occasion yesterday to do a quick build for a friend I'm trying to persuade to dump analogs entirely and rebuild. Ran into a common anomaly to show you as an example of how crucial consistent strain symmetry is. Built this 26 AWG, D/C, 10/9, 2.5mm t.m.c. @ .614Ω...
I'm at a stage in rebuilding where better than 75% of my builds are on point. That's pretty much reflected by the coil in the background (below). End turn congruity is not a problem. I have a few simple approaches in butting end turns always when localizing them in the set. Clamping as well when making any adjustment to the element directly, i.e. introducing a bend, twining leads, etc. However, there is always the unexpected miscalculation when working with such small articles. Especially for an old codger like me. So I'm big on winding another, if I haven't already. Far less work in the long run.
The foreground pic though under magnification shows a critical error — an errant end turn. It seems at some point early in the oxidation process I sheepishly must admit to torquing the center post having removed the bit. Only slightly mind you but obviously just enough to introduce some inward strain at the bottom of the lower right end turn.
Usually I'm turning out pairs that begin to glow uniformly end-to-end at low power and consistently oxidize as evident by color. The end turns always being somewhat cooler take longer. On a 10-turn if six at the center have achieved uniformity it's good enough to vape leaving the end turn pairs to burn in with the coil break-in. As you approach end turn oxidation you should already be seeing a red temp zone lighting up fairly evenly end-to-end.
In this instance I should have been clued in as the foreground coil started to oxidize faster and more uniformly than the back wind. This uneven advance of oxidation confirms even if not yet apparent from fired wire color that the most rapidly oxidizing element is hotter and regrettably flawed. Realizing this too late the coils began to go unbalanced in color temp. A slight difference in applied strain between the leads caused a forward separation of the turn which skewed with heat. At this point there is no use but to go to ceramic tweezers to reign in the asymmetry or discard. You can resort to constraining heat by compression of the distorted element which I did and salvaged this daily use pair. This requires more heat and so best left to last couple of longer burns as voltage is increased. Meantime minute delicate squeezes on (pressure against) the end turn as oxidation pulsing continues.
Short story is that oxidation color is our friend. It is both the goal and the means, iinduced by low power and patient pulsing to allow oxygenation in time with repeated cooling. It's a key instrument to perfecting the solution. And an important one to identify failure.
Distortions in a properly wound t.m.c. (tensioned microcoil) are subtle. Magnification is required (lets be honest) and any skew should be rejected (almost always gets worse). Most are wire imperfections which can spontaneously cause warping due to uneven (diameter) heating as you pulse and oxidize. Not much to be done about that but as above. Secondly, anytime localizing an end turn or setting it there must be strain approximating that of the wind applied. That is while on the bit or pin vise pulling the wire away from the post or termination point until the terminal is secure. That's what most helps avert deformation. But if you've got a slightly out-of-round (thin) segment there not much you can do to prevent it. It will go hot and distort.
Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it.
Good luck!
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Mac, would you say that the lack of oxidation evident as coloring from a cued coil is due to lack of tension or proper geometry?
You can oxidize a standard coil. But strain makes it possible by the slight stretching and tightly joining of the wire to do some very uniform cool burns. The reason they rapidly oxidize in this fashion is time. Exposure to oxygen under light to moderate progressive heating. And we do need to get to a minimum threshold of alumina formation to avert the bulk of the flow jump we're trying to inhibit with insulation. What the threshold is, like adhesion itself, I can't say precisely. I'd suggest trying to ensure that roughly the innermost 3/4's of the wind be visibly oxidized. End turns are as well but pale. If oxidation doesn't commence early on, there may be a wind flaw or significant gaps.
The first six months of my study I paid little attention to the progression or whether or not it occurred. I was too busy with the human mechanics. But increasingly focusing on this through 2014 yielded improving results. I concluded that oxidation is key and in fact the target of building a contact microcoil. The very definition. Exactly as folks were talking about with respect to oxidation for conventional coils two years ago. But for a microcoil it's fundamental to achieving resistance stability. For all coils, a higher temperature output than the raw resistance value calls for without it. Forget metered resistance. What matters is in operation.
I can't rightly answer your question on why oxidation remains apparently absent (it's never totally). I deduce that the process is too fast given the power, pulsing, etc. to allow the graduated development I've exhibited in some coils. It is about oxygen exposure. Too hot, to fast, too much power and different types of oxidation may ensue which are not desirable. Or not much at all. I find that an unoxidized contact coil is one of the hottest, harshest vapes I've ever encountered. Kicked myself many times for missing the step and completing the build (only to realize later). Rarely have I been able to use such a build long considering too how it stresses both juice and wick media. Same effect as an over-tensioned wind.
Alumina oxidation is the ceramic barrier which insulates our winds from irregular electrical performance. It creates thermally conductive boundary layers which lend to the uniformity of heat radiation while simultaneously helping to protect the wind from rigors of the atomization process. It's the very reason we use Kanthal. And it's optimization, common sense. It's done everywhere Kanthal is employed. It's why the alloy exists. Put yourself for a moment in my shoes as I ponder the skepticism of those who aren't familiar with this. It's a tough act here Ether.
Tension and symmetry aren't mutually exclusive. They mutually abet each other. They afford the opportunity for time to do the heavy lifting. And we get to avoid the torch with its own contributions, yes contributions to degrading the wind. For example introducing surface imperfections which pit or crack the wire. Of course we don't see these but they may prematurely cause a wind to fail or underperform, they distort or warp and crack further and then as bad as a loose post. And all it takes is just such a minute segment, invisible likely except by magnification, expanding or contracting differentially to the rest of the wind.
Now in this context consider what eccentric winding is by comparison as a potential problem source. HUGE.
There is a science involved to the two principles of symmetry and adhesion. It's not folly or preference. Done simply we most of us have the ability to gain the mechanical coordination to do it as easily as we flip a burger on the BBQ. It's all muscle memory.
And as you know I continue to urge folks to try it.
Good luck all.
p.s. Amend. 1st par...If oxidation doesn't commence early on, there may be a wind flaw or significant gaps.
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I completely follow that line of logic, when the dr's are done for the day I have a quick experiment... once I pick up my new coil jig, that is.
Sadly the pin vise wouldn't hold with adequate tension simply "in hand", I expect that it will do just fine when supported on both sides in the frame of the jig.
Till later.
Sadly the pin vise wouldn't hold with adequate tension simply "in hand", I expect that it will do just fine when supported on both sides in the frame of the jig.
Till later.
First, a hand-held pin vise can generate incredible strain if the feed end is either clamped or restrained (drag). So if you have a small desktop or workshop mini-vise, just clamp the wire. No you don't need a Fin-Nor. A simple Shakespeare drag can present a great deal of strain affixed anywhere. Just support the non-turned end of the winding bit with the other hand (or a bit resting on four fingers if uncomfortable) and you can pull with the total strength of both forearms. Far more than is required.
Initially I thought that oxidation was merely a nuisance and perhaps undesirable. True that some resulting oxidation may be. I was getting it early with Vivi's because my earlier dry burn efforts were slow and cautious. But like I said I chucked looking at that as adding too much complexity to having folks learn the simple wind. I thought it better that they get to adhesion as the focus and oxidation would occur naturally and inevitably as a result.
This is a different tier of thinking here. So we have to decide...are we gonna use the wax car wash or keep it real and do the two-step. Might as well do it right the first time. Polish her up real good.
Quick and dirty winds E like my tobacco vapes where I know I'm constantly rewicking I've tended not to concern myself with how the oxidation turns out. I tend to have more trouble with these coils than when I do. Tobacco vapes are my key interest. It's been knawing at me. Since I started working with twisted leads last Spring they have exhibited very rewarding longevity. It's very likely that attention to the insulation development has played a part. Why not make sure they're oxidized as well as others? Pic's of the Subtank twisted lead parallels are examples. Just a matter of remembering to start slow and low V.
I gather you're doing multi-wire on the PV. Yeah, it takes a strong hand. Results less predictable with thick wire or x-strands. I'll just repeat here as it's related…it's hard to get adhesion for twisted multi-strand. It will never be perfect as two many variations of close contact in the twists themselves. However, I found that if the knurls of twisted interleave neatly you do see a higher incidence of oxidation of the wind. A third of mine adequately interleave and a good proportion of them produce discernible deep oxidation over more than 50%. Those are real keepers. More common are dull gray uniform oxidation which is also alumina. And I find these not be as rewarding. It helps to keep control of twist pitch tight (consistent).
I will admit I love the way multi wire looks in it's bright state and wish this was the ideal. But mother nature frustrates aesthetics here. Only way I know to do that is to avoid dry burning them at all. But as you prob know that's the kinda heat you gotta be prepared for and really, really like. Still it would be good to try and build at least one control vape for comparison. Seems lately I can't keep them from starting to visibly oxidize though.
I'm looking forward to someone putting together a simple powered mech jig that can balance uniform strain and feed. And turbo's effort earlier posts show what can be done. I've put together a couple of jig mock-ups of hand winders and they serve.
Good luck all.
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I like this thread. It's like coil building community college online version. Interesting discussion about the cause and effect of oxidation going on. Although it seems like Mac is doing most of the discussing and we're all just nodding our heads.
My new atomizer showed up yesterday so needless to say I got busy.
26 gauge - 9 wraps - .67 Ohm net
"Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it."
-Mac you've got that right. Getting the coils mounted without distortion to the end turn is where I find the greatest difficulty. The bottom coil shown in the pic is perfect -I pulled it off but something wasn't right on the top one. I didn't get the legs properly oriented in how they come off the coil while still in the jig. I must have pulled it out of round during the install. By that time it was my third attempt and I gave up and settled. (I hate that) but its all a learning experience and I feel I'm getting closer with each build.
My new atomizer showed up yesterday so needless to say I got busy.
26 gauge - 9 wraps - .67 Ohm net
"Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it."
-Mac you've got that right. Getting the coils mounted without distortion to the end turn is where I find the greatest difficulty. The bottom coil shown in the pic is perfect -I pulled it off but something wasn't right on the top one. I didn't get the legs properly oriented in how they come off the coil while still in the jig. I must have pulled it out of round during the install. By that time it was my third attempt and I gave up and settled. (I hate that) but its all a learning experience and I feel I'm getting closer with each build.
I like this thread. It's like coil building community college online version. Interesting discussion about the cause and effect of oxidation going on. Although it seems like Mac is doing most of the discussing and we're all just nodding our heads.
My new atomizer showed up yesterday so needless to say I got busy.
26 gauge - 9 wraps - .67 Ohm net
"Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it."
-Mac you've got that right. Getting the coils mounted without distortion to the end turn is where I find the greatest difficulty. The bottom coil shown in the pic is perfect -I pulled it off but something wasn't right on the top one. I didn't get the legs properly oriented in how they come off the coil while still in the jig. I must have pulled it out of round during the install. By that time it was my third attempt and I gave up and settled. (I hate that) but its all a learning experience and I feel I'm getting closer with each build.
Seems like you've got a good handle on localization BE. It looks like you're using some kind of device to .... the end turns and produce that symmetrical arch. I sometimes use just a screwdriver or pin vise. If it's critical, I'll use a fine point metal tweezer on the neg end turn and press in on the turn and lead. This makes the lead taught and if positioned just off the bottom of the turn will form in some residual strain into the end turn exit. In other words, pressing in slightly on the 180deg release point. Try to be balanced on both sides. Come in with the tweezers from post or outboard side of the coil always keeping the bit in the coil and make sure you .... the positive side of the coil when you do this to prevent distorting it. If you're holding the s/d or p/v to keep the coil stable as you do this tweak you can keep a constant tension on the positive lead (outwards) as you support the end turn.
Just simply fix (stabilize) the geometry and slow pulsing will very naturally result in uniform oxidation. That's what a t.m.c. does.
Good luck BE. Keep the vape goin'.
Just a point regarding oxidation. Not sure what this means but when wicking is perfect and the coil doesn't get too hot the wire remains silver. It only turns black when a hot spot or nearly dry hit occurs.
Add: this is with the coils I make using the gizmo with no issues nor initial hot spots.
Add: this is with the coils I make using the gizmo with no issues nor initial hot spots.
Yep alumina dev needs higher temps than when the wick is installed serving as a heat sink. Gotta get it while ya can.
Good luck Aal. Nice to see ya.
I get something similar E, I end up using the bend from locking the wire into to the pin vise and work in a bend to the negative side that helps center the coils. And then like Mac, I adjust gently with the shoulder of a screwdriver to keep them in line.I like this thread. It's like coil building community college online version. Interesting discussion about the cause and effect of oxidation going on. Although it seems like Mac is doing most of the discussing and we're all just nodding our heads.
My new atomizer showed up yesterday so needless to say I got busy.
26 gauge - 9 wraps - .67 Ohm net
"Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it."
-Mac you've got that right. Getting the coils mounted without distortion to the end turn is where I find the greatest difficulty. The bottom coil shown in the pic is perfect -I pulled it off but something wasn't right on the top one. I didn't get the legs properly oriented in how they come off the coil while still in the jig. I must have pulled it out of round during the install. By that time it was my third attempt and I gave up and settled. (I hate that) but its all a learning experience and I feel I'm getting closer with each build.
I like this thread. It's like coil building community college online version. Interesting discussion about the cause and effect of oxidation going on. Although it seems like Mac is doing most of the discussing and we're all just nodding our heads.
My new atomizer showed up yesterday so needless to say I got busy.
26 gauge - 9 wraps - .67 Ohm net
"Controlling end turn distortion is the most crucial aspect of a t.m.c. build. When achieved, well then you've got a real microcoil on your hands and you have only yourself to blame for it."
-Mac you've got that right. Getting the coils mounted without distortion to the end turn is where I find the greatest difficulty. The bottom coil shown in the pic is perfect -I pulled it off but something wasn't right on the top one. I didn't get the legs properly oriented in how they come off the coil while still in the jig. I must have pulled it out of round during the install. By that time it was my third attempt and I gave up and settled. (I hate that) but its all a learning experience and I feel I'm getting closer with each build.
Your build looks solid bro. Nice work. Yes, end turns are a place we all struggle. I'm working on improving my mounting technique too
Yep if you like that center post airhole build, you protect that straight pos lead common off the PV. The airflow benefits far outweight the slight increase in resistance. I thought it was majorly sketch to introduce some line length disparity but it just works. No good having a powerful wind if the airflow ain't there!
Good luck.
p.s. Just watch the prox. of coil to cap BE! Underproduction is a likely sign of grazin' the capper. It'll sour your vaping experience in a hurry…and turn your insulator to jello if you're not watchin'.
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