Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

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MacTechVpr

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I found a table with boiling points of vg but as water is added it greatly effects tempatures at which it boils.

I found a nice wind for my sigelei with 454.Its a 1.8ohm single with 29 gauge wire and warmed it up almost satisfactory.I'd like to be able to adjust tempature by changing wattage setting on sigelei but this coil is very close to what I want.
I'll give it a few days.Im finding coils seem to get better the next day especially the pre made type.

Congrats. A great baseline. About pretty much the dead center of performance for the Protank, most clearo's and small single-wind RDA's if you ref back to the PT Micro thread Rob. It's a temp level I think most of us find agreeable. With a good fast wick and airflow better than a few pin-dots. Lots of vapor at just the right temp running in a reduced chamber like a coil assembly.

Yes you can reduce the boiling point with water. But it will significantly stifle vaporization overall. Don't really understand that or why VG with it's higher boiling point results in better output. Regardless my conclusion more vapor (density), more flavor. Water will corrode our winds tho finding every crevice and flaw. Fail to see any advantage.

Good luck. :)
 
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MacTechVpr

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I didn't read through whole thread but the Protank 4 evolve,is it based on Protank 1 or does it have the massive air flow?
I read it was designed for transitioning from MTL to DL so although is a sub tank it still has a slightly restricted air flow.
Anyone tried the Protank 4 Evolve?

No seems more like the Subtank but apparently better airflow. Trying to resist buying a batch. I do like its new RBA. However, that Kanger is zeroing their parts inventory is not a very good sign. And that has been the main reason I've acknowledged the value of the product from the beginning. See a lot of peeps buyin stuff's not viable in the long run.

Just based on the consistent quality from Kanger and the RBA wouldn't say don't get it. PT4's prolly a good value for the money.

Good luck and if you build on it, let us know! :)
 
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MacTechVpr

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Lifted from the VU thread…Nichrome ruined me | Page 2 | Post #100 | for info here.

DIYjim said:
:) -I guess I need to be educated. What is an alumina layer and what does this have to do with vaping/taste/vapor density? :confused:

Rather than repeating myself as one of the few who've talked about alumina, I'd prefer to note…

The dearth of information on VU about alumina, an alloy developed a century ago, reveals more than my courteous nature allows me to explain here.

Kanthal is an alumina exuding ferric wire type specifically adapted for resistance wire. The popular adoption of Kanthal and its properties led me to consider quitting and succeed after 47 years. I can't imagine a more beneficial contribution to vaping than this singular advent (Kanthal) other than a furtherance of knowledge on its simple effectiveness and safe practical use.

The established and most supported benchmark for vaporizing elements is Kanthal.

What fascinates me is the facility with which Kanthal and it's optimal platform (mechanicals) have been displaced by producers and retailers to exclude it with a comparatively little explanation as to merits. How and why have we been so readily redirected to raw horsepower as the solution rather than efficient use of resistance?

It's for others I suppose to argue for the universality or superiority of alternatives. Several years back you would have seen a far broader discussion and interest. Today the complexity of alt wire technologies make an appreciation of electrical fundamentals irrelevant and increasingly difficult for the novice vaper. We more and more are encouraged to assume those who provide vape goods know what works and what's good for us.

Seems to me as a former smoker, I fell for that once.

Good luck jim. :)
 
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MacTechVpr

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Mac,
I found some subtank mini that are supposed to be authentic.
Does Kangertech use authentic codes?

I ordered a Kanger sub tank mini.
They're supposed to be authentic so I'll see when it arrives.

Yes, they do, but I've seen some pretty good emulations of packaging within US importer stocks. Small retailers often can't discern the differences (or mebe they do). I've bought all my Kanger gear over the past 3 years directly from Kanger or a few reputable authorized resellers. Many I've tutored on t.m.c.'s have run the gauntlet. Lately some of the kits look remarkably real. Of these, as often than not, the clones do not perform nearly as well even with t.m.c.'s. And I've rebuilt for quite a few myself. Avoid the knock-offs. Good luck with your buy. A 50-50 chance you're good I'd say. I've seen some pretty good copies as well.

Did you say you have both the avocado and limitless plus?
Im curious if the avocado has a more restricted air flow than limitless plus.

I've built and vaped for the LRDA and it's excellent. Seems the Avocado may have less potential for constriction in the juice holes. Vaped one and it was ok with a Clapton so can't juidge it's potential. I liked the build quality. Given a choice and avoiding the complexity. I'm more disposed towards the Tsunami and Nalu glass window RDA's with their deep wells as dual-posts go.

Sorry for the belated response. Tied up this weekend.

Good luck. :)
 
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Robbert

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    The Nalu vapes good like most RBA but it can get hot fast especially using a single coil.
    Im noticing most of the popular tanks this year are for cloud vrs flavor chasers so I may have to start looking at last year tanks.
    I do like the velocity v2 simply because the air flow can be closed further w/o it effecting vapor production.
    Are the classifieds still going on the forum?
     
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    MacTechVpr

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    The Nalu vapes good like most RBA but it can get hot fast especially using a single coil.
    Im noticing most of the popular tanks this year are for cloud vrs flavor chasers so I may have to start looking at last year tanks.
    I do like the velocity v2 simply because the air flow can be closed further w/o it effecting vapor production.
    Are the classifieds still going on the forum?

    Hey Rob…yep, classies are live but not what they used to be.

    Been lookin' at the Nalu and it's doin' some nice things price wise (I've got a pair in the cue). Def would run that dual. I like to use the acreage when it's there ('ve got a pair in the cue). Love to get density out of an airy or hot tank. If nothin' else than to show it can be done.

    Had some at a vendor look at me like I'm stupid when I asked why they took down their drill press 'cause…everything has airflow now. LOL I drill my own for a reason. Some auth RDA's I run 7/64"x6-holes or the density is too much to handle with fat-wire t.m.c.'s. So, the Nalu/Velo will go twisted-lead parallel. Built right, won't go hot. I use full open a/f on the ST with t.m.c.'s. Need it. Even low wattage users I have set up rarely dial-down.

    Yes, the direction is hi-pwr and you have to wonder wtf this industry is thinking when we all gotta realize by now, the man is gonna chase that. Why have they brought us here? When they come knockin' on the door, send 'em over. All I'm tryin' to do here is show folks how we might possibly spoil their party. It's late and I'm cranked on the stupidity of all this.

    Sum up, I am concerned about Velo/Nalu a/f but I'll be seeing soon as I work up some fat wire TLP's for them and other 2-posts. Project I'm lining up with a few folks and for neutral post designs. Some posts here may come out of that. Unless some of you beat me to it and do duals of the t.m.c.'s below.

    Good luck. :)

     

    Robbert

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    I got my kanger subtank today.Wow what a great flavor tank.
    It's a copy of kayfun or did kayfun v5 copy the air flow size?
    The coil in square 0.5ohm has some great flavor.I didn't realize it could be rebuilt so easily.The square coil base seems to have more flavor than the RTA deck,but both could be considered RTA.
    The tanks I got are authentic and passed the code test.
    There's one seller who sells them for 12.50-16.00 each sealed in plastic with code.
    The Nalu is okay but in single coil mode with only one air flow hole used it can get warm,but open up both sides keeps it cool.
    I may try a vertical single coil if cotton placement will work in subtank mini.
     

    Robbert

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    I got my kanger subtank today.
    I used a square coil and tried a contact coil and it's a great tank.
    The square insert coil may taste better but I see now why this tank is so popular.MTL or DL and every coil is rebuild able.
    I haven't tinkered with it much yet,but wicking is easy peasy along with mounting coils.
    Im after flavor and I've noticed sometimes using 1.0-1.8ohm micro coils at lower wattages can inhance flavor.

    The codes test authentic and there's an eBay seller who has a bunch for 16.00 each,2-25.00 and cheaper if you want a large quantity.
    Great tank.Looking forward to trying some different coils or even modifying it.
     

    Rudeboy615

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    All attempts I've made have not heated evenly but mostly from inside out. Some coils do heat with a slightly larger inside area. When watching drifter's videos of the coil jig I don't think his were heating evenly either. I've seen your subtank trio pictures of the heated tmc but do you have a gif or short video of it? I do notice a difference in vaping even with my potentially imperfect tmcs and it not only aids in the installation of coil due to its sturdier form but it also seems to reduce pops making it a smoother vape. The other day while making a tmc I inadvertently stretched the coil and used it as a spaced tensioned coil. I did this because using normal coil master spaced coils in my Kayfun 4 always resulted in major pops with almost every puff and the spaced tensioned coil has drastically reduced the popping but it pops more than a tmc.
     
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    Rudeboy615

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    X_drifter has a video where he oxidizes a coil after he wound it using a coil master.
    He does another video using coil gizmo that are tension coils.Its definitely worth watching if your winding tension coils.
    You man this video? It's a bit hard to tell since he is during that coil at high power. When it cools the center is hotter.
     
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    Robbert

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    There's one video titled "How to use the coil master",where he doesn't get coil so hot.
    It's a good example on how to get rid of hot legs,get coil to glow evenly and it shows the blue color.
    I think the blue color means oxidation is complete.
    I use a coil master.It makes very nice coils but they're not a tension coil.
     
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    MacTechVpr

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    Thx fellas for the keen observations. It's not hard to make a contact coil. It doesn't have to be hard to make a t.mc. if we understand what it is we're trying to get to. It's a point or an extent of elongation.

    @Robbert, the blue color is indeed an indication of alumina development. Overpowering this can rapidly deplete surface aluminum I understand, perhaps spoiling the structural potential of a beneficial uniform layer since hotter parts of the coil will rapidly exude it.

    As for the video, with a 4.2V at full bore on a mech you're blowin' right past all I've noted on how to induce oxidation on this and the Protank Micro thread. That's why the coil goes too hot. It's a short. And we guarantee it'll stay one by torching, over tensioning (excess elongation) or pulsing the bejeezus out of it.

    Two things to remember…first, low-voltage pulsing promotes even oxidation at low wire temp's; and, at only a small sacrifice of the rigidity imparted by strain winding. However, the dual process assures that the (output) efficiency gained avoids the need thereafter to apply a higher power than needed to form and insulate the coil…to achieve the desired temp performance.

    That is why t.m.c.'s remain effective, durable and consistent for temp in operation, i.e. they tend to remain an insulated contact coil (not prone to overheating). The uniformity of power yields a higher vaporization rate so you don't need as much power to vape. You want higher temp, design a coil that yields it. But it will run cooler than the power required to create it because of the greater vape rate. That's the point.

    The problem with starting out with an inadequate microcoil (spaced) is that it always wants to return to the state it was wound in operation (with the effects of temp expansion and cooling). Eventually, they remain open coils losing the performance advantages of a t.m.c. Conversely, a tightly formed (on a coiler) micro that's been only slightly spread manually may lose rigidity with repeated heating and start to retract to its orig dimension and intermittent contact. Having lapses in oxidation they may go unexpectedly hot in operation overall or in segments. If what's wanted is an open coil, I'd wind a precision one on a screw, single wire or twisted.

    So for example, a rapid oxidation at end-turns of one coil will likely yield a constant temp mismatch. Can't fix that. A phrase I've long and often used…baby steps. However, gaining consistency in the amount of strain applied can lead to readily cranking out matched pairs that go fully oxidized within a few healthy pulses. It is a rather simple process that doesn't require a lot of patience. Just careful attention.

    It's far, far easier to train to build to the strain threshold just beyond the start of wire elongation (sticky) with a pin vise than all the workarounds and fiddly you see everywhere to coax contact coils to behave. I've heard all the black magic. There is a point of balance for the wind and that's what I've been writing about for three years.

    Good luck. :)
     
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    MacTechVpr

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    Could pinching the coil with ceramic tweezers aid in oxidation for a coil that has not achieved adhesion or a non tension micro coil?

    It's a process Rb. Your ability to cure slight defects improves with learned motor memory to consistently apply strain. I went through periods early on where I lost the touch from time to time.

    Yes, you can pulse anneal the wire into oxidation even if you don't have the closest possible contact. It may take longer and you may not achieve it without more power. I explained the impact earlier on alumina. Once you apply external force (compression) or the equivalent in excess power you've used that energy to create the wind and not strain. It will not likely perform like a t.mc.

    WThe winds are so sensitive to strain that even with a t.mc. in optimal closest contact you may have inconsistencies that will spoil the possibility of uniform oxiditation. There are small imperfections in the wire and lapses in applying even strain which can leave small gaps in the coil. They are all too often easy to miss with the unaided eye. But as soon as you try to light it up, you'll see grey spots in one or more segments. If they clear within one or two quick pulses with a very light pressure of a ceramic tweezer you're prolly golden with a t.m.c. But as I said earlier, that's not the case if the coil is squeezed together.

    As cheap as wire is and as simple to just crank out a perfect one, I'd opt for the latter rather than fiddlin' with it. Pin vise winding is about removing the guess work out of what's optimal. Nature decides what closest is. Strain gets you there. This process is made for beginners and to ensure a solid baseline to get to the great vape.

    I usually wind a couple of extras when I wind. Worst case, you end up with an extra or two for the next build.

    Good luck. :)
     
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    MacTechVpr

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    I'm going to try some TC wire but I have no idea which kind to get.
    Is there any that does t.m.c better than others?
    I can't remember but I think there is some tc wire that can't be wound as a contact coil.

    Which tc wire for t.m.c ?

    Rob, an interesting experiment but note that SS wil not build an alumina layer. I do believe that strain may help symmetry but in effect it behaves like a short. Reports I've seen by some who've tried report hot operation. Nickel and Ti I would not use for t.m.c.'s but again balancing strain may help with symmetry which is always a good idea. There's always the guided screw wind to ensure precision.

    If anyone else can kick in, much appreciated.

    Good luck! :)
     
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    MacTechVpr

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    A gratuitous bump to highlight Nextel for the uninitiated (you don't know what you're missing!)…need sub ohm vaping advice. | Page 3 | E-Cigarette Forum.

    ughh yeah don't use the ceramic... get some .5 claptons for the best flavour.

    I should add, I really, really didn't like those ceramics, they made the tank way too hot.

    I would agree 100% on externally wicked crushed or matted ceramic wick coils. Haven't encountered a one that I would consider a flavor device. However, braided ceramic (Nextel) according to almost all the dozens of long term vapers I've set up with it beats alternatives hands down. Flow, see below (a little gig I did). Not to mentioned that maintenance immediately restores it to pristine and fresh operation in minutes and in place. And then there's that little thing that the wind and wick can then last for months (years for the latter). It's like that. :D

    Good luck. :)

    p.s. Now does this look "hot" to you?

    Now this this look "hot" to you?
     
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