Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[Darryl Licht]

It's also called piano wire.

Yes, you should a got the 5 rod model. But piano wire is not too challenging to bend into that shape with 2 pair or pliers. Ive done several.

Doan give up homie. Sometimes You gotta swing the bat a few times before you get a hit.

Oh, and if you have to heat and squeeze coil it wasn't great anyhow. Better to pull it and build s good one

Music(Piano wire)
Piano wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not good at wire bending, and find it very difficult to work with the music wire with pliers, on the thicker dias. at least. I tried it on a 5/64" piece, forget it. But if you can do it, go for it, the wire is cheap.

Tis much easier to bend that thar peeano wire properly if you put it in a vice and then bend them thar angles firstest! <--- say it with the superX Swamper voice! LOL!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Tis much easier to bend that thar peeano wire properly if you put it in a vice and then bend them thar angles firstest! <--- say it with the superX Swamper voice! LOL!

Rather poke it than stroke it.



Good luck.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I called the inventor of the coil gizmo months ago. I emailed him and he called me. I asked him if he knew vapors were using his invention. He had very vague knowledge. I asked him to identify the mandrel sizes and he told me and I wrote them on my gizmo box. I explained to him what we do and the ideal sizes we needed. He said "oh" and could of cared less. I made my own mandrels and use them on my gizmo.

 

[Darryl Licht]

I called the inventor of the coil gizmo months ago. I emailed him and he called me. I asked him if he knew vapors were using his invention. He had very vague knowledge. I asked him to identify the mandrel sizes and he told me and I wrote them on my gizmo box. I explained to him what we do and the ideal sizes we needed. He said "oh" and could of cared less. I made my own mandrels and use them on my gizmo.

To All Those Using Custom Mandrels in Their Coil Gizmos...

Do you simply use one of the larger holes with your custom mandrels, drill your own custom holes, or drill out the smallest hole?

I used a coat hanger to bend this 2.25mm mandrel this evening:

Stock 1.5mm on top.

 

[super_X_drifter]

To All Those Using Custom Mandrels in Their Coil Gizmos...

Do you simply use one of the larger holes with your custom mandrels, drill your own custom holes, or drill out the smallest hole?

I used a coat hanger to bend this 2.25mm mandrel this evening:

Stock 1.5mm on top.

I use the smallest hole the rod will pass thru.

 

[rowsley]

Just went to ace this morning. I brought up music wire and they didn't know they carried the stuff but they didn't have any unless I ordered it. I found some stock brass rods ppl use for hobbies, its made by k&s and also at ace. Only found 1/16, 3/32 and a variety pack of 3 with sized im not sure of yet they are .114, .081 and, .072. Fairly cheap at about 1.29 a pack.

Seems it should be easy to bend but we will see.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Just went to ace this morning. I brought up music wire and they didn't know they carried the stuff but they didn't have any unless I ordered it. I found some stock brass rods ppl use for hobbies, its made by k&s and also at ace. Only found 1/16, 3/32 and a variety pack of 3 with sized im not sure of yet they are .114, .081 and, .072. Fairly cheap at about 1.29 a pack.

Seems it should be easy to bend but we will see.

Brass is fairly soft and may not work well under tension and the wire might even score it? Dunno. Just see how easy it bends - that'll tell ya if you should return it.

 

[rowsley]

Brass is fairly soft and may not work well under tension and the wire might even score it? Dunno. Just see how easy it bends - that'll tell ya if you should return it.

Not what I want to hear this morning lol.
3/32 feels really sturdy. 1/16 not so much. It feels stronger then the very smallest on the gizmo. I hope it works. It was only a few bucks so with a shot. Was that or aluminum lol

 

[rowsley]

Not the prettiest but got them formed. It took some pretty good force to get the bigger ones formed

 

[etherealink]

I'm not. I got 200' of wire coming next week. I just need to find some rods for this gizmo. I'll try to at least get a clothes hanger, I believe they are 2mm if I remember what I just read but would like a variety of sizes. I don't know if hardware store would have anything that I could shape in a crank like these. . of all things I don't have a metal hanger lol

I just recently hit the hardware store here and they had a good variety. Just be sure to do the SAE to metric conversion before you buy!

 

[rowsley]

I just recently hit the hardware store here and they had a good variety. Just be sure to do the SAE to metric conversion before you buy!

Send the good stuff this way lol. If these don't work then I dunno what ill do. Probably just use the tiny coil jig I have. Not looking to keep throwing money on stuff that's not working. But that's what's been happening so far. I mean I really only need a few sizes.

 

[jefx]

So after reading a good chunk of this thread, I decided to try out the tensioned micro coil idea.

What exactly am I supposed to be noticing by doing this?

Efficiency is a nice thing to achieve, but is there supposed to be a noticeable difference in vape quality? Because I can't tell any difference. Marginal increase in battery life and marginal decrease in fluid consumption don't really seem to be worth the extra effort of going through all the extra work with jigs and tension and whatnot.

Is this just more of an "artisan" type of thing?.... You know, where some people are just willing to go the extra mile to produce what they consider a "perfect" product, because they are compelled to do so by internal demand? Or is there an actual apparent increase in vaping quality/quantity that goes beyond subtle gains and nuance?

I'm not trying to be a smartarse here. I'm seriously curious. Like I said, I made several "tensioned" micro coils about a week ago using concepts that I learned from this thread. The only difference I noticed was that my "tensioned" coils gunked up faster than normal, causing a need for re-wicking sooner than I would normally need to (after only 3 tanks or so of my usual tobacco flavored ADV). To me, the added efficiency is worth less than the added work (and re-work) required.

 

[rowsley]

OK HERE YOU ALL GO, THESE ARE THE SIZE OF THE MANDRELS IN THE COIL GIZMO DELUXE:

1.0 mm or .039" AKA: 3/64"
1.55 mm or .0615" AKA: 1/16"
3.2 mm or .126" AKA: 1/8"
4.0 mm or .157" AKA: 5/32"
4.75 mm or .187" AKA: 3/16"

So, as I see it, there is a clear need for a 2 and 2.5 mm mandrel.

I highly doubt I'd ever use the 1, 4 or 4.75mm sizes at all!

After a little trash digging I found my box to confirm and it is indeed the deluxe version and found a tiny mandrel hiding in there. So I do have all 5.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Picked up here from KangerTech SUBTANK Mini for reference.

Mac, I have to agree with Cig on this detail. Although I am not sure I understand your suggestion of keeping the coil clamped to the bit. What kind of clamp are you doing this with. Seems nigh impossible in this small a space. Course my imagination is a little rusty this morning. Got a pic?

Edit: Or do you mean just keep it on the bit?

Both! Protect end turn, stabilize the length of the wind, clamp hard to a bit (flat), fix or compress ends (clamp on either side of coil), lots of purposes. It's not an art form bro…it's about gettin' to the vape and done with the stinks. No simpler way to do that than with simple tools we know work 'cause we use 'em all the time everywhere…except (for some odd reason) in vaping.

Trying to provoke some curiosity especially among new vapers so they don't get stuck in a generic hand jerk. Yet we all do (myself included) for months or years. But to me winding by hand's like tryin' to do some kinda crazy art with our hands tied behind our back and the brush between our teeth. I did it, and still do, trying to figure what if anything it brings to the table. But it's not even close to being an efficient way to get a reliable wind…except in this industry. And of course, fly fishing.

Here's a perfect example Mini Clamps with Vinyl Grips often called bull dog clamps or which resemble precision surgical Dieffenbach arterial clamps.

First simple tool I used to introduce the concept of tension, clamping, de-winding…was the forceps.

Posted on the ProtankMicro thread...The clamp Luke, the clamp! And I guess I'll be adding some details to Protank MicroCoil Discussion!! on clamps as I talk about stabilizing more advanced winds. Inexpensive surgical clamps, forceps, locking tweezers, fly fishing hackle pliers…rubber tipped, flat-tipped, serrated (as in pic)…in short a million things, many of which we have lying around the house are plentiful and cheap.

The pin vise you know. And here's another use for it along with a clamp, twisting the lead for tensioned parallels...

A search for clamps and miniature, hobby or instrument art and craft is productive. Google images is helpful.

For techniques and approaches that's where I need your help. And everyone here. I have a few. We're all bound to come up with a million more. But we will if there's more of us trying to build coherent winds.

Thanks DP, and good luck all.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Brass is fairly soft and may not work well under tension and the wire might even score it? Dunno. Just see how easy it bends - that'll tell ya if you should return it.

Sorry Row, but I have to agree... brass is a soft metal. Might work in the larger sizes but will probably just bend the smaller ones when you get any real tension in there!

Please let us know...

 

[Darryl Licht]

Picked up here from KangerTech SUBTANK Mini for reference.



Both! Protect end turn, stabilize the length of the wind, clamp hard to a bit (flat), fix or compress ends (clamp on either side of coil), lots of purposes. It's not an art form bro…it's about gettin' to the vape and done with the stinks. No simpler way to do that than with simple tools we know work 'cause we use 'em all the time everywhere…except (for some odd reason) in vaping.

Trying to provoke some curiosity especially among new vapers so they don't get stuck in a generic hand jerk. Yet we all do (myself included) for months or years. But to me winding by hand's like tryin' to do some kinda crazy art with our hands tied behind our back and the brush between our teeth. I did it, and still do, trying to figure what if anything it brings to the table. But it's not even close to being an efficient way to get a reliable wind…except in this industry. And of course, fly fishing.

Here's a perfect example Mini Clamps with Vinyl Grips often called bull dog clamps or which resemble precision surgical Dieffenbach arterial clamps.

First simple tool I used to introduce the concept of tension, clamping, de-winding…was the forceps.

Posted on the ProtankMicro thread...The clamp Luke, the clamp! And I guess I'll be adding some details to Protank MicroCoil Discussion!! on clamps as I talk about stabilizing more advanced winds. Inexpensive surgical clamps, forceps, locking tweezers, fly fishing hackle pliers…rubber tipped, flat-tipped, serrated (as in pic)…in short a million things, many of which we have lying around the house are plentiful and cheap.

The pin vise you know. And here's another use for it along with a clamp, twisting the lead for tensioned parallels...

A search for clamps and miniature, hobby or instrument art and craft is productive. Google images is helpful.

For techniques and approaches that's where I need your help. And everyone here. I have a few. We're all bound to come up with a million more. But we will if there's more of us trying to build coherent winds.

Thanks DP, and good luck all.

OK, now there we have it...

Proof that a picture is worth a thousand words! Now I get it... the clamp is a hemostat (aka: roach clip), and I can see exactly how to attempt my next advanced tensioned coil! <--- once I get a pin vice or two that is!

Mac: How do you keep the twist rate even between the two legs? Is that crucial?

 

[MacTechVpr]

OK, now there we have it...

Proof that a picture is worth a thousand words! Now I get it... the clamp is a hemostat (aka: roach clip), and I can see exactly how to attempt my next advanced tensioned coil! <--- once I get a pin vice or two that is!

Mac: How do you keep the twist rate even between the two legs? Is that crucial?

You should have count parity or as close to it as possible or you going to introduce of line resistance. But it's not fatal if you're a bit off. After a few twists you get good. What can happen tho and it's hard to predict is you'll lose the adhesion effect if you are off. The coil will go warmer on one side and fire from that side. So you do have to pay attention.

I try to pull a little on the PV to keep the wind taught. Too much and you'll snap it easy.

The most critical part of this exercise is making sure that you have equal line lengths mated up going into the PV. Just like twisted pair, if they're uneven you'll introduce lead strand separation. Any such break albeit invisible to the naked eye could promote a hot spot right there or for that segment (the lead). So the twists need to be good tight twists.

Twisted lead parallels, the application here, are not beginner's builds but once you understand the concept of tension it becomes a lot easier to appreciate the "why". It's just a damned great vape.

Good luck.

 

[Darryl Licht]

You know you've been bitten by the tensioned micro coil bug; when you see this and all you can think of is finishing your meal and getting back to your vape...

 

[TheBigE]

When I'm participating in a thread especially a large ongoing one I like to go back to the beginning and read a couple pages for a refresher. On page 2 MacTechVpr said:

"If you read back on EFC to the winter/spring of last year most everyone had come to the realization that loose irregular spaced winds were not contributing to the efficiency or performance that was hoped to be attainable."

My latest experiment seems to back this statement up. This weekend I picked up a Lemo and since it came with a prebuilt coil already installed I filled her up and proceeded to vape. This coil was 28 gauge wire about 8 1/2 wraps with an inside diameter of 1/8". The stock coil did not have contact spacing. There was a slight gap between each wrap. I do mouth hits usually three seconds or less. What I noticed with the tank was excessive ramp up. The first hit produced OK taste but not much vapor. On the second hit once the coil was warmed up the production increased.

The long ramp up does not cut it with me. My primary goal is pure intense flavor. After that second pull I feel the atty is over driven and the excess heat starts to degrade the taste. Sure cranking up the wattage might speed up the ramp time but I'm also looking for efficiency and battery life as well as a cool flavorful vape. Besides I was hitting the stock 1.1 ohm coil with 16 watts. That's plenty I'd wager. So after a few ml of juice it was time for a change.




I kept with the 28 gauge but used my .078" (2mm) mandrel in the coil gizmo and applied 7 1/2 pounds of dead weight to the other end of the wire. The resistance measures 1.3 ohms. The difference between this coil and the big 1/8" stock coil is night and day. The first pull on the Lemo yields good flavor and surprisingly quite a bit of vapor too. I left the power level the same at 16 watts. With this new TMC and the tighter draw of the Lemo this RTA is now my favorite. The smaller coil with tension seems to heat up much quicker allowing me to take the shorter hits I like while producing thick vapor with lots of taste. I've released the fire button long before the coil and wick heat enough to start affecting flavor.

Another trait I've noticed since I've started using tensioned coils and in the Lemo in particular is a lack of popping and sizzling for the amount of vapor produced. What I'm finding is a quiet cool draw time after time. I'm really liking the tensioned coil in my tanks.

In the OP Super_x said:

"Tensioned Micro Coils (TMC's) are were the highest levels of efficiency are gained, they are easy for even the beginner to reproduce with the same results/resistance every time and provide a perfect heating element for your atomizer."

As a flavor guy it makes sense to me. The consistency I get from each coil I make with the tensioned method is worth the added effort (if any) in my own quest for that perfect vape. Eliminating as many variables as possible is the key to finding repeatable success. The coil is the heart of our device so why not aim for perfection at the coil building bench?

 

[MacTechVpr]

When I'm participating in a thread especially a large ongoing one I like to go back to the beginning and read a couple pages for a refresher. On page 2 MacTechVpr said:

"If you read back on EFC to the winter/spring of last year most everyone had come to the realization that loose irregular spaced winds were not contributing to the efficiency or performance that was hoped to be attainable."

My latest experiment seems to back this statement up. This weekend I picked up a Lemo and since it came with a prebuilt coil already installed I filled her up and proceeded to vape. This coil was 28 gauge wire about 8 1/2 wraps with an inside diameter of 1/8". The stock coil did not have contact spacing. There was a slight gap between each wrap. I do mouth hits usually three seconds or less. What I noticed with the tank was excessive ramp up. The first hit produced OK taste but not much vapor. On the second hit once the coil was warmed up the production increased….

...As a flavor guy it makes sense to me. The consistency I get from each coil I make with the tensioned method is worth the added effort (if any) in my own quest for that perfect vape. Eliminating as many variables as possible is the key to finding repeatable success. The coil is the heart of our device so why not aim for perfection at the coil building bench?

Well BE you took the tack I took pondering whether to quit or not. Having tried a variety of vape products and loitering on ECF and other pages over the years. Supe's contact coil roused my curiosity that the electronics were finally reaching prime time. But there's this nasty problem with shorts all us techie types are real leery of and I was a huge skeptic. Surely there were alternatives we could pursue that would accomplish this, I thought, even if micro's couldn't be stabilized. Still I figured I'd give the microcoil a shot and make good use of the Burnz-O-Matic. And it did work more efficiently despite an assortment of side-effects, the numbers tell us so. How do we make that dependable and consistently attainable while constraining defects? I doubted that was possible. But as folks keep reminding me…there's more than one way to skin a cat. And tension winding proved a predictable means to bypass the shortfalls in efficiency brought by forming. An outcome that even the inexperienced could attain with simple tools.

Strain is the most precise tool we can use to get a wind to its rated optimal efficiency. If there's a pure definition of a tensioned contact microcoil that is it, a coil that's been wound to that state. Many ways to apply strain. Some more successful, others easier. But it's not merely another tool in the kit. Where contact coils are concerned, it get's us where we want to go.

But the real tool here is a concept. One you mention. The most important one. Wire has it's own perfection, a point of optimal performance in terms of capacity. Strain allows us to more precisely build to that target. Yes, even for a beginner. And I'm down with that.

Thx for the Big ack and good luck. That's a great wind.