I hope it's something I can go get locally instead of having to order it. That would be nice for a change. 
Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
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Good proof of elongation. You definitely got past closest proximity from my understanding of the principles. And a good experiment as proof. Thanks.
Your results are pretty consistent with what I see in early adaptation. It's good that you did the variations. No way to get around making those comparisons. Part of the learning curve. We have to learn the mechanics whether we wind by hand or mechanical assistance. What it takes physically by adjustment or pressure. There is an ideal zone of performance for the wire.
Note on a few things…
• Adhesion as I've used the term in a general way pertains to closest proximity of contact surfaces (mutual exclusion, Pauli Principle). Where a deflection of surfaces commences and lateral compression force yields to elasticity, elongation (think squeezing a hot dog too hard). There may be other factors as I say discussed pertaining to stability of the set but for purposes of oxidation it's the first presentation or orientation of the wire at that level of strain. I believe a balance of lateral and linear forces marks the demarcation of adhesion.
• Rainbowing is an indication of broken adhesion, stress imparted back into the wind dislodging turn to turn contact. Another cause is skew, mechanical friction impeding the wind from returning to balance after strain added at some point at the set (think stretched slinky). Compression can induce this as well (off-axis). What raking, stroking or "cueing" as @super_X_drifter found relieves allowing the wire to resume its wound or equilibrium state. But if not easily so to respond a stratification of turn temperatures continues I ditch. Typical to see some variation in res in these circumstances even as the wind may appear perfect. If you pulse to completion the variations go permanent.
• Black spots are imperfections in the wire. I cannot explain their cause in Kanthal and never delved seriously into it. It may affect performance but having initially run into the phenomenon while pulsing t.m.c.'s discard them. It's rare. However, in one recent twisted lead pair, my first published in fact, a very large one developed early in oxidation in on one lead. It's never impaired stabilization or performance. I've had two more in operation and that one I've kept to monitor the impact. So far about 6-weeks and as many wick changes and quite stable for both res and turn congruity. Wouldn't seem to be affecting temperature.
• The more efficient the phase transition the more solids or pigments pass through in sublimation. Realize these solids tend to trap in wicking. If pressure is kept consistent as by a matched build (wick, wire, flow and air) and consistent use this tendency is reduced. That's how I have a test out now past 7 months with Nextel.
• As builds get tighter in terms of relative strain the zone of optimal density becomes consistent, a deep temperature gradient. The point at which the ratio of thermal energy to vaporization is highest as a factor of overall power. Why quite some time back [Protank] I started suggesting we use just enough for adhesion as I believe that the ideal is closer to the point of closest proximity than further strain, i.e. you can't improve on what is already the closest fit and balance. Why it seems easier to find in a hand wind which I recommend strongly as reference for comparison.
You will find to our great advantage that forces that would normally affect a no-strain contact or compressed open wind things like expansion force may not have the same impact on the stability of wire proximity as with a t.m.c. These winds do get separated in operation with robust gas expansion and porting between susceptible micro spaces interstitially. Strain constrains coil geometry and symmetry where oxidation formed in adhesion. However, they are susceptible to the same flaws such as warping if overheated by under juicing or too high power. Higher energy levels (force) than used to create the wind may distort it. So there consistency in attaining a balance of strain is again important to consistency of production not merely durability. If extended beyond their capacity they can be repaired by compression but will tend to exhibit higher temps behaving more like a conventional unstrained wind.
The goal of any wind is the most stable closed circuit possible. That's the advantage in form and function strain and contact bring as mechanisms to achieve practical oxidation and target resistance. They are neither mutually exclusive.
Good luck. And thanks for the great feedback.
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Don't forget weight lifting lol!We have to guess what department it's in. We already have covered, hardware, sewing, fishing. Let the guessing begin!
The reason it relates is because it's all about metallurgy. Metals have similar properties regardless of what they are used for. That's the scientific part. All metal wires can be stretched to improve them, but many times we don't do that.
Romex is an example. Your house wiring could be stretched, and would conduct electricity more efficiently, but who does that?
That would only work if federally mandated - ie, all manufactures had to stretch the Romex before sale. Then the increase in efficiency would add up to booku bucks, nationwide. But that's probably not going to happen.
But for us vapors, the coil is the thing that matters. Since we are concentrated and focused on the coil, then the coil is the "thing" to watch. We only have that one (or two) coils of wire. (Or 3 or 4, depending on your build, right?)
When we tension the wire for the coil, we are "finishing" the manufacturing process. It should have already been done at the factory, but it wasn't. We are doing that step with tension. It's nothing but a better break-in period for the coil.
Sort of like buying a brand-new car: You're supposed to take it easy on the engine for the first few thousand miles to let it break in. It's just not ready to go when you first get it.
Or it's like seasoning a cast-iron pan. It's just not ready to cook when you first get it.
We're breaking it in; getting it set; finalizing it's parameters.
oohhh noooo, another tool I gotta buy?
We have to guess what department it's in. We already have covered, hardware, sewing, fishing. Let the guessing begin!
Worse. It's homemade. It's a pair of tweezers with a 2.3mm hole bored thru both blades then the ends of the blades ground off. Makes holding a coil on a 2mn rod insane
the ends can't unwind when you go to bend the legs. It took the dude 2 carbide bits to git er done it's good to have friends with skillz. I'll post s pic when I get a chance
Ok, I'm going to keep this quick and simple but please note that I chopped up Mac's comments just for simplicity sake.
1. The rainbowing (poor use of the term) I'm referring to is the coloring many are getting while dry firing a formed coil. See the photo:
coil by Kent Hill aka Twisted Messes.
2. I agree with the idea of using just enough tension, whether in-hand or by some form of gizmo to impart a tiny a stretch stabilizes the overall geometry of the coil and that the optimal and almost instant vaporization of juice is the best definition of efficiency however; that is a mix of wattage, wire size, # of wraps/diameter and wicking... not only the addition of tension to the mix. Further, I agree that trying to push the amount of strain on the wire is the opposite of the goal. More than that, finding just enough is the goal will get you to the sweet spot of adhesion and a coil that is solid like steel.
3. The oxidation, when stable, gives a barrier against gunking the coil and also helps slow scorching the wick when temps are set smartly.
All in all, it's a delicate blend that all comes down to being subjective to the end user. The concepts we are playing with here - scientific or not - are simply a way to get to that Oh My God! moment of a perfect vape with every build. Let's get everyone to that level.
Good luck folks.
1. The rainbowing (poor use of the term) I'm referring to is the coloring many are getting while dry firing a formed coil. See the photo:
2. I agree with the idea of using just enough tension, whether in-hand or by some form of gizmo to impart a tiny a stretch stabilizes the overall geometry of the coil and that the optimal and almost instant vaporization of juice is the best definition of efficiency however; that is a mix of wattage, wire size, # of wraps/diameter and wicking... not only the addition of tension to the mix. Further, I agree that trying to push the amount of strain on the wire is the opposite of the goal. More than that, finding just enough is the goal will get you to the sweet spot of adhesion and a coil that is solid like steel.
3. The oxidation, when stable, gives a barrier against gunking the coil and also helps slow scorching the wick when temps are set smartly.
All in all, it's a delicate blend that all comes down to being subjective to the end user. The concepts we are playing with here - scientific or not - are simply a way to get to that Oh My God! moment of a perfect vape with every build. Let's get everyone to that level.
Good luck folks.
Lol, my 1/8" mandrel is homemmadeWorse. It's homemade. It's a pair of tweezers with a 2.3mm hole bored thru both blades then the ends of the blades ground off. Makes holding a coil on a 2mn rod insane
Just a quick vid on the vapor production of the fav build from my test group... on my instagram "etherealink93" if it won't load the link here. Nevermind, the link won't work
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Read the first few and the last few pages, sorry I didn't read the 30 some in the middle. Are the coiling gizmos still recommended? I'm thinking about picking up one of http://www.artisticwire.com/product-p/jtprofwin.htm for some different projects, non vaping related. Wondered if it could be used, even if it is a bit big, for coils for my kayfun.
Angus, it's not required at all but it makes things very easy to repeat. The rods go down to 1.5mm and maybe 1mm so you'll have no trouble at all with a kf.
Another day off of work and 4 more test builds... I'll leave the tech specs on my blog and just drop the basics here.
Another day off of work and 4 more test builds... I'll leave the tech specs on my blog and just drop the basics here.
Sorry about the double posting, apparently the delete option is hiding after the move...
Hey all hows it all going? I thought i would drop in and say hi i have been super busy with work. But i have been rocking the T.M.C for a long time now thanks to MAC he taught me well. I run this on an apollo mod in a darkhorse, and i have heard from vape meets i have been too that this method is a waste of time. (this is just my two cents take it for what you will) Now i will tell you i started my rebuild fiasco with PT2 and that is the hardest thing to rebuild and make it work right. But i will tell you that if you can rebuild SMALL itty bitty coils and install in in a PT2 everything is a breeze. I have perfected the t.m.c on any mandrel i like 2.5mm or even 3.0mm i run these on my dark horse daily, and i am not a super subohming vaper. My sweet spot is .25ohms.
In the year i have been vaping i have upgraded to mods and then updgraded to different ones many times, and i will say it doesnt matter which way you use. But keep one thing in mind that no matter what tool you use wrap with tension straight from the spool you will never go wrong. I wrap all my coils this way get perfect adhesion everytime i rebuild coils install and wick in less than 8 mins (yup i timed it). I could go faster but whats the point well my point is doesnt matter whos method is better or which tool you us i person prefer a pin vise it works great no problems. As long as you are getting safe and happy vape from it enjoy.
Enough for now have fun yall vape on!
In the year i have been vaping i have upgraded to mods and then updgraded to different ones many times, and i will say it doesnt matter which way you use. But keep one thing in mind that no matter what tool you use wrap with tension straight from the spool you will never go wrong. I wrap all my coils this way get perfect adhesion everytime i rebuild coils install and wick in less than 8 mins (yup i timed it). I could go faster but whats the point well my point is doesnt matter whos method is better or which tool you us i person prefer a pin vise it works great no problems. As long as you are getting safe and happy vape from it enjoy.
Enough for now have fun yall vape on!
The parties over here now along with SuperX's newest video review of the MasterCoil.
Friday Night Vaping _X_tra | Page 11 | E-Cigarette Forum
Friday Night Vaping _X_tra | Page 11 | E-Cigarette Forum
Maybe you're right! Many around the world use strain as a technology to improve their vape. And many more to come no doubt from the visibility the challenges to it now will certainly bring it. Tension won't cease to exist because we merely dismiss it. The purpose and utility of it to help assure the reliable functionality of contact coils has been confirmed by folks more knowledgeable then both @super_X_drifter and myself both here on this thread and elsewhere. It's fascinating to consider, I agree, that some might imagine that this genie can be put back in the bottle. Wishful thinking perhaps.
Nice video though demonstrating how to initiate a close contact coil. However, that falls short of the very definition of what a microcoil is — a coil wound into direct uniform contact, for the function of substantially increasing its production when achieved.
"Micro Coils for rebuildable atomizers - coils with...touching wraps and...These coils perform similar to an oldschool coil of roughly 1/2 the resistance."
Loose contact would not seem to meet that description as even a hand wind in contact applies more tension pressure than simple rotation. Why? It's not just a factor of the appearance but the characteristics of the wire which change with force applied.
Look up a guy by the name of @vapdivrr who did a lot of valuable testing for us two years ago on what it actually takes to produce oxidation by electrical annealment for a hand wound loose contact coil. It's a lot of work and in good part I believe why folks began to torch open winds to ensure stability.
The whole premise derives from SxD's marvelous adaptation of the compressed contact coil to begin with and the practical temperature stability lent to it for tank use brought by tension winding. Coilers fall short of that result but do produce a close contact coil which SxD rejected for over-heating from center as seen in this video with only very light low power pulsing. And then of course there's that pancake thing if you fail to avoid adding any compression or strain…exactly what's necessary and desirable to make the wire and wind stable.
Early on I demonstrated to vendors that simple thumb pressure applied on wire as it's rotated on a plain old screwdriver produced a tighter more symmetrical coil than any forming coiler I've since seen or tested. Even imparting a little tension if finger pressure is enough. Many videos on that everywhere. And the best part of that...you can fold that Jackson back in your pocket.
My whole objection to the imputed principles of coiling Mt is omission. Coilers don't impart tension or produce functional microcoils. They look like a duck. The whole deck needs to be put on the table.
I've seen a lot of fads come and go on ECF Mt; but real knowledge doesn't go away.
Good luck Mt.
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These are the best coils I've ever made and mounted and pulsed to perfection to date. It's been dubbed by a friend as the build that killed Lincoln (it's on a derringer).
Now, after building a few coils over the last two + years, I can say that it, once pulsed up real slow and easy and cued that it vapes better than any coils I've ever mounted. Making a perfect coil is not to tricky. It's the mounting that will upset even the most perfectly wound, tensioned or formed coil. Here's what I ask of those with different opinions:
Shoot a vid of your coil creation, mounting, and firing sequence. Don't clip out anything. Keep the camera on the whole time. Zoom that biatch right in on the coils. No squeezing either. Unless you are useing monster wire (I'm only using 27 ga) you are gonna see some seperation, even if minute. I'd lay $20 paypaled to anyone who can show me a 27 or 28 ga coil from start to fired till blue and ready for wick that your coils gonna get some tiny gaps. Let's see them vids. And I promise I'm good for the $20. Anyone wanna take me up on this lil wager?
Now, after building a few coils over the last two + years, I can say that it, once pulsed up real slow and easy and cued that it vapes better than any coils I've ever mounted. Making a perfect coil is not to tricky. It's the mounting that will upset even the most perfectly wound, tensioned or formed coil. Here's what I ask of those with different opinions:
Shoot a vid of your coil creation, mounting, and firing sequence. Don't clip out anything. Keep the camera on the whole time. Zoom that biatch right in on the coils. No squeezing either. Unless you are useing monster wire (I'm only using 27 ga) you are gonna see some seperation, even if minute. I'd lay $20 paypaled to anyone who can show me a 27 or 28 ga coil from start to fired till blue and ready for wick that your coils gonna get some tiny gaps. Let's see them vids. And I promise I'm good for the $20. Anyone wanna take me up on this lil wager?
ohboyohboy, I'm game with my original wire twisty method, I'll try to get a vid, I still think my twist method is the best I've seen so far for me anyway, I bet my wraps are as consistent as anything else out there
I totally agree with you turbo bro. That little deal you got and your man fingers (I have girl fingers that don't hold up to abuse well) does produce one hell of a coil. For me it's never been about the difficulty of making a killer coil - it's the mounting part that usually F's up the perfection of what I thought was a perfect coil.ohboyohboy, I'm game with my original wire twisty method, I'll try to get a vid, I still think my twist method is the best I've seen so far for me anyway, I bet my wraps are as consistent as anything else out there
But for what it's worth, I prefer as little hassle and girl finger splitting as possible when making a coil. I say with all honesty that these coils vape as good if not better than any I've made in my couple of years of RBing A's
If there's something better either im way off the mark or I just don't really care. My unregulated vape kicks AYUSS in spades
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