TFA Only flavors - strange chemical taste - Just recently started

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Thanks for looking that up. I took a look at your link and think I may have seen it on the shelves at one, or more, local retailers. The only thing giving me pause is this (also from their site):
View attachment 653081
3 of the ingredients I recognize as "common" amongst the DIY community: water, sucralose, and citric acid. I don't know anything about the other three (in regards to inhalation): Potassium sorbate, succinic acid, and sodium benzoate. Any thoughts?

Potassium sorbate is the potassium salt of sorbic acid, chemical formula CH₃CH=CH−CH=CH−CO₂K. It is a white salt that is very soluble in water. It is primarily used as a food preservative. Per wiki

Succinic acid per wiki
As a food additive and dietary supplement, succinic acid is generally recognized as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.[21] Succinic acid is used primarily as an acidity regulator[22] in the food and beverage industry. It is also available as a flavoring agent, contributing a somewhat sour and astringent component to umami taste.[12] As an excipient in pharmaceutical products, it is also used to control acidity[23] or as a counter ion.[12] Drugs involving succinate include metoprolol succinate, sumatriptan succinate or solifenacin succinate.

Sodium benzoate per wiki

In the United States, sodium benzoate is designated as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the Food and Drug Administration.[15]The International Programme on Chemical Safety found no adverse effects in humans at doses of 647–825 mg/kg of body weight per day.[16][17]

Cats have a significantly lower tolerance against benzoic acid and its salts than rats and mice.[18]

A paper published in the March 2015 Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture found that sodium benzoate has been replaced by potassium sorbate in the majority of soft drinks in the United Kingdom to avoid the use of anything the consumer might consider an additive, particularly in connection with colours and preservatives.[19]

Association with benzene in soft drinks[edit]
Main article: Benzene in soft drinks
In combination with ascorbic acid (vitamin C, E300), sodium benzoate and potassium benzoate may form benzene, a known carcinogen. When tested by the FDA, most beverages that contained both ascorbic acid and benzoate had benzene levels that were below those considered dangerous for consumption by the World Health Organization (5 ppb).[20] Most of the beverages that tested higher have been reformulated and subsequently tested below the safety limit.[20] Heat, light and shelf life can increase the rate at which benzene is formed.

 

[IDJoel]

Thanks @Sugar_and_Spice for all the extra leg work. I really appreciate it!

The wiki quotes seemed to deal more with ingestion vs. inhalation so I tried to do a little digging on my own. All I really learned is I should have payed WAY more attention in chemistry classes when I was still in school.

All three carried "irritation" cautions in regards to inhalation. But I have no idea whether this is in reference to particles/dust, fumes/vapors, or something else. I also have no idea at what levels these become an irritant. In short "I just don't know."

Do you make your own sweetener with EZ-Sweetz? If so; how (how do you dilute it and use it)? And how long have you been using it?

Thanks again for all the hand-holding; I appreciate you!

 

[Nightowl007]

First attempt was mixing at 1 MIL to 1 MIL. There was a noticeable difference. Less chemical taste, but still there. I was going to try a 1.5 to 1, but decided what the heck. I'm not going to waste much if I just go straight to 2 to 1. Now! There is the flavor I was looking for! It has blueberry notes chased by cheesecake Graham cracker crust! Should I keep going? Or leave it alone? You know I can't just leave it alone! I'm going to try a 3 to 1 just because I can!

OK, 3 to 1 was too much. Flavor is real light.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Nightowl007]

Hey! @JCinFLA, I do have a small amount of CAP super sweet! It's about a year old, but I'm sure it's fine. I hardly ever use sweetener so I forgot about it.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Thanks @Sugar_and_Spice for all the extra leg work. I really appreciate it!

The wiki quotes seemed to deal more with ingestion vs. inhalation so I tried to do a little digging on my own. All I really learned is I should have payed WAY more attention in chemistry classes when I was still in school.

All three carried "irritation" cautions in regards to inhalation. But I have no idea whether this is in reference to particles/dust, fumes/vapors, or something else. I also have no idea at what levels these become an irritant. In short "I just don't know."

Do you make your own sweetener with EZ-Sweetz? If so; how (how do you dilute it and use it)? And how long have you been using it?

Thanks again for all the hand-holding; I appreciate you!

I had researched sucralose several years ago and did purchase some of this sweetener. I tried it first in my cup of hot tea and it didn't fit my taste so I never used it in ejuice or for that matter ever again. I very rarely use any type of sweetener in any of my ejuices, preferring rather to use other flavors for that effect.

I am not necessarily recommending anyone use this nor am I recommending that they don't. That distinction is left up to the users to decide.

Would this work for a temporary fix when you need to make ejuice and don't have any sweetener on hand other than what is in your cubbard. Yes. But I would not continue to use it on a regular basis. But that is just me.

If you look at what the flavor makers sell as their sweetener, most all of them say 100% sucralose. I have no first hand knowledge whether or not they actually synthesize this themselves.

Once again vapers have to make the choice of what they want to use and inhale into their own bodies.

The FDA considers the contents of these 3 formula's to be well below what they consider harmful to our health if ingested. Like you point out inhalation is the unknown, as it is with all of the flavors we are using. Until the studies actually come out, we are all just trying to do the best with what we have available to us.

And please, do not take this the wrong way as it is not geared towards you or anyone here or those who use any of these products, but I continue to shake my head at the level of scrutiny the vaping community puts on themselves when we all smoked knowing how deadly cigarettes are. We all use vaping as a way to live longer and have a better quality of life in doing so. But as everything else in life is there is no guarantee or is there anything that is perfect in this world. The best we can do is get close.

 

[IDJoel]

Yep...I order 4 oz of each flavor each time I order. I keep them in a cool dark place when not in use. I'm not sure if I have to do that, but I feel better about it.

Aaahhh! The light bulb just went on.

Now I understand the motivation to make these flavors work for you. Yes, I would definitely keep these in a cool dark place. I know some mixers will even keep them in a refrigerator, while other yet go so far as to freeze them. I myself have not resorted to any form of refrigeration, just an unused linen closet shelf near the bottom of the closet, and with some concentrates over two years old, have yet to notice a loss of potency. Sepperation from certain manufacturers, about certain flavors (TFA being one of them) has made me nervous in regards to refrigeration; but , of those who use it, I have never heard a complaint. Heat, light, and air are the three main enemies of DIY supplies; control these and you are in good shape.

As for 4 ounce (120mL) bottles; to each there own. I can only speak for myself but I would NEVER but a 4oz. bottle of any untried flavor. Even with doing my research, reading reviews, finding recipes, asking for opinions, I only find about 1 "winner" or "would want to order again," for every 4 or 5 I try. I always start out with the smallest size I can get (8mL to NO more than 15mL) and run it through it's paces. THEN, if I do like it (a 20% or less chance for my track record), I will order a larger bottle. Usually I only opt for a 1 ounce (30mL) bottle. I don't want much more than a 1-2 year supply (thinking "fresher is better" and vaping regs are NOT going to affect flavor concentrate availability), AND I don't want my concentrates sitting for long times in large bottles with lots of excessive headspace. Headspace is air; and air is one of the enemies of all things DIY. When I have a 4 ounce bottle with only one ounce of concentrate left in it, I may as well be leaving the cap off the bottle. I am too lazy, and cheap, to re-bottle them into something smaller, and I don't go through them quickly enough.

Anything I would save in shipping charges by not ordering as frequently would be eaten up in all those ounces of flavors I would rather not have to vape. No, for me, I would rather buy more flavors of smaller, and cheaper, bottles and pay the same shipping (assuming same/similar total package weight), than fewer flavors of larger, and more expensive (even though "I am getting 'bulk' pricing") bottles.

A 4 ounce bottle of TFA will cost me $7.00 at Bull City. A 10mL bottle will cost me $1.29 at Bull City. If I buy 10 bottles of the 4oz. size; that will cost me $70.00. For $69.66 I can order 54 bottles of the 10mL size. I have 40 ounces of shipping weight with the 10 4oz. bottles; and I have 18oz. (540mL / 30mL = 18oz.) of shipping weight for the 54 10mL bottles. Shipping cost winner; 10mL order. Plus, come tasting success, and given my track record, I should have (at most) two winners from the 4oz. order (10 x 20% = 2) vs. 10.8 winners of the 10mL order (54 x 20% = 10.8). Plus, of the ones I don't like; the 4oz. order leaves me with 32 ounces (eight bottles totaling $56.00) of "losers," while I only have 14.67 oz./440mL (44 bottles totaling $56.76) of "losers" from the 10mL order.

Unless I am ordering known "winners" I just can't see any advantage of going straight for 4 ounce bottles. Yes; the price per mL (ounce) goes down as you buy larger quantities. But is it worth it if you have 3.9 ounces of something you would rather not vape? If it works for you; I am glad to hear it.

 

[IDJoel]

I am not necessarily recommending anyone use this nor am I recommending that they don't. That distinction is left up to the users to decide.

Would this work for a temporary fix when you need to make ejuice and don't have any sweetener on hand other than what is in your cubbard. Yes. But I would not continue to use it on a regular basis. But that is just me.

Once again vapers have to make the choice of what they want to use and inhale into their own bodies.

I completely understand what you are saying and I happen to be in agreement with you. I only try to do my "due diligence" and inform myself to the best of my extremely limited abilities and comprehension.

And please, do not take this the wrong way as it is not geared towards you or anyone here or those who use any of these products, but I continue to shake my head at the level of scrutiny the vaping community puts on themselves when we all smoked knowing how deadly cigarettes are. We all use vaping as a way to live longer and have a better quality of life in doing so. But as everything else in life is there is no guarantee or is there anything that is perfect in this world. The best we can do is get close.

I take no offense at this. In fact; I AM guilty of it more often than I care to admit. Actually, that was my realization as I was trying to read the tech docs earlier, and made myself stop.

I do have a (hopefully) healthy respect for trying to learn what I can. My very first success as a DIYer was mimicking a local vape shop's wintergreen recipe. It used 10% LorAnn wintergreen... wait for it... OIL. It was only after I found ECF, and was directed to the dangers of inhalation of oil vapors, that I realized what I was risking and quit using that recipe. I thought for sure that a vape shop (of all places) wouldn't sell me something with a high probability of harm. That was when I became rather "zealous" about knowing what I was vaping.

Since that time I have learned to "not sweat the small stuff." I will try the "better" choices first, but if it is not satisfying I am not above using the "naughty" ones. And you are right; we (as a community) know NOTHING about long term exposure to ANY of our ingredients so it is ALL a gamble. I just recently read that PG may be what is exacerbating my tinnitus. Swell... It is all a learning experience.

A home brewing author made the phrase "Relax! Have a home brew!" a popular mantra within the home brewing community. I need to adapt it to my DIY!

Thank you for the reality check!

 

[JCinFLA]

@JCinFLA You know that the flavor cotton candy is really just em, yes? Its used more for mouth feel than a sweetener tho it has a very light sweetish type of taste. Not usually enough to sweet any juice like sucralose which is an artificial sweetener.

Yep! I knew that, which is why I wrote the following in my earlier post (with emphasis on parts here):

"I've come to the conclusion that everything I came up with...needed alittle bit of something truly sweet, like TFA Sweetener or Brown Sugar, which you don't have. The TFA Cotton Candy really isn't a sweetener per se. It's more of a smoother or blender without actual sweetness, IMO."

 

[JCinFLA]

@Nightowl007 - I don't know if you've had a chance to read the following or not, from Bill's Magic Vapor's Blog. But, he has some great info. in it, that may be helpful to you. I know that a lot of info. in his blogs, and his recipes, were very helpful to me when I started DIY.

How To Eliminate the Chemical/Floral Notes in the Mix | E-Cigarette Forum

Upon rereading the above again myself, I noticed his suggestion about using a variety of creams/vanillas/sweeteners to help enhance, round out, and smooth many primary flavorings. They also can help eliminate floral/chemically notes in eliquids.

I remembered that I'd read that before I'd found several recipes I wanted to make when first starting DIY. Many of them did contain different vanillas, creams, and sweeteners as he'd said. I then placed my intial fairly large TFA flavorings order accordingly. So in addition to the Sweet Cream, Marshmallow, and French Vanilla that you have of those types...I also included some Bavarian Cream, Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, Vanilla Swirl, Whipped Cream, Banana Cream, Vanilla Custard, Sweetener, and Brown Sugar.

I can't tell you how many times I've been glad that I ordered those when starting DIY. Not only were some used in the first recipes I'd found, but they're in many recipes I've seen posted by members on here regularly, too. So, the next time you place an order...you might want to try a little 8mL size of some/all of them to see how they help with your mixes, too. Just my opinion though. Others may suggest otherwise.