That is why US Vape industry is on the edge of destruction right now

[dreamvaper]

let’s summarize the dire findings in that chart.

• We now have 27.7% thinking e-cigs are more harmful or much more harmful than cigarettes, and 62% think as harmful or more harmful. There is absolutely no substantive basis whatsoever to think this.
• Only 2.6% have an approximately accurate perception “much less harmful”.
• “Less harmful” now stands at only 8.6%, but even this is a misperception – less could mean a bit less but far short of much less. 20% less harmful is still wildly inaccurate and would be included in this answer.
• “Don’t know” in this context is probably a significant barrier to switching. Given the conflicting and confusing information circulating, don’t know would be a reasonable answer and a reason not to risk switching.
• The trend is deteriorating but bears no relation to actual knowledge – the biomarker data collected since 2014 suggest very low toxicant exposures and several studies show improving clinical outcomes compared to smoking.
  
  More info can be found here: E-cigarette risk perceptions – an American crime scene

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IMHO nobody will save US vape industry when every year amount of US voters who thinks vaping is more or at least as much as harmful as regular smoking is increasing X times.
Plus more and more people believe that flavoured vaping options are being sold to make their kids start to vape and get evali at some point.

Seems like Vape advocating organizations along with US vapers altogether did much less than the ones interested in destroying this industry for the passed 5+ years

That's a shame to witness what's happening in the US. Especially when most of you guys aren't even fighting back for your rights to vape.

 

[smacuser]

How, exactly, did the UK do it right?

Was it vapers protesting in the streets, or a government who followed the science?

 

[dreamvaper]

UK is far from being perfect on this topic, but I believe the main things that lead to such different approaches are:

Differences Between The UK & US Healthcare System

Big tobacco in the US having much more influence on the politics and their decisions

A government who followed the science - that one as well. Connected to the first 2 points for sure.
--
There was only 3 deaths in the UK reported that were in some ways connected to vaping during last 5+ years.
Evali bullsh@t did affect the UK but not even close to what was and still is happening in the US.

As for American Heart Association, American Cancer Society, American Lung Association, and the American Thoracic Society having all that crap about e-cigs on their official pages compared to the UK equivalents, you guys should ask them about it and demand they'll change it Asap and not mislead people anymore.

 

[smacuser]

I take it there’s not a lot of pharmaceutical ads during the nightly newscasts over there.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

How big is the tobacco agriculture industry in the UK?

 

[dreamvaper]

I take it there’s not a lot of pharmaceutical ads during the nightly newscasts over there.

I barely watch TV but I guess there's not a lot.

btw, file:///tmp/mozilla_nikitab0/guide-to-uk-immigration-and-visa-options-for-us-citizens-wishing-to-live-in-the-uk.pdf

How big is the tobacco agriculture industry in the UK?

didn't find the exact numbers but I guess not too much, UK imports tobacco from other European countries.

 

[puffon]

How much does the UK government collect from tobacco companies to allow their product to be sold?
Not including taxes.
MSA Payment Information
The Master Settlement Agreement and Attorneys General

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I barely watch TV but I guess there's not a lot.

btw, file:///tmp/mozilla_nikitab0/guide-to-uk-immigration-and-visa-options-for-us-citizens-wishing-to-live-in-the-uk.pdf



didn't find the exact numbers but I guess not too much, UK imports tobacco from other European countries.

That's why they are more vape friendly than the USA and other countries that have a large tobacco agricultural industry.

Also, the public is told what to think through the media. The public prefers it that way because it's a really easy way to live. More time for beer, football and such. It's a win-win because the government happens to prefer it that way, too. In the USA, the media says vaping is lethal, in the UK they say it's much less harmful than smoking. But either way, true or not, it's all just media brainwashing.

 

[rosesense]

I resent the implication that we in the US have done nothing and allowed this to happen. The fact is we have small numbers of vapers in comparison and don't have the money to fight gov and the big pharma, tobacco etc. There have been petitions, pickets, letters, lawsuits and nothing has stopped this mess.

 

[smacuser]

When I get time this evening, I’ll expound more about the current state of affairs here in the US. Touch points will include Edward Bernays, The Hegelian Dialectic, the formation of the Federal Reserve, and the ending of another type of prohibition that has been decades in the making.

 

[englishmick]

How much does the UK government collect from tobacco companies to allow their product to be sold?
Not including taxes.
MSA Payment Information
The Master Settlement Agreement and Attorneys General

Politicians and government agencies aren't directly financed by corporate interests in the UK. At least not as openly as in the US. They have to exert their influence indirectly rather than just showing up with a big check.

 

[englishmick]

I resent the implication that we in the US have done nothing and allowed this to happen. The fact is we have small numbers of vapers in comparison and don't have the money to fight gov and the big pharma, tobacco etc. There have been petitions, pickets, letters, lawsuits and nothing has stopped this mess.

Yeah, we tried. I sent dozens of emails and even some handwritten letters. Lots of us did. Maybe that kind of activity would have more effect in the UK. In the US we could send millions of letters then a corporate donor shows up with a bag of money and it's all over.

 

[englishmick]

let’s summarize the dire findings in that chart.

• We now have 27.7% thinking e-cigs are more harmful or much more harmful than cigarettes, and 62% think as harmful or more harmful. There is absolutely no substantive basis whatsoever to think this.
• Only 2.6% have an approximately accurate perception “much less harmful”.
• “Less harmful” now stands at only 8.6%, but even this is a misperception – less could mean a bit less but far short of much less. 20% less harmful is still wildly inaccurate and would be included in this answer.
• “Don’t know” in this context is probably a significant barrier to switching. Given the conflicting and confusing information circulating, don’t know would be a reasonable answer and a reason not to risk switching.
• The trend is deteriorating but bears no relation to actual knowledge – the biomarker data collected since 2014 suggest very low toxicant exposures and several studies show improving clinical outcomes compared to smoking.
  
  More info can be found here: E-cigarette risk perceptions – an American crime scene

----
IMHO nobody will save US vape industry when every year amount of US voters who thinks vaping is more or at least as much as harmful as regular smoking is increasing X times.
Plus more and more people believe that flavoured vaping options are being sold to make their kids start to vape and get evali at some point.

Seems like Vape advocating organizations along with US vapers altogether did much less than the ones interested in destroying this industry for the passed 5+ years

That's a shame to witness what's happening in the US. Especially when most of you guys aren't even fighting back for your rights to vape.

Is there any similar analysis of public perceptions about vaping in the UK? I seem to recall reading that the Brits generally have a more positive view of vaping, but there is a major push going on by various groups to change that.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Especially when most of you guys aren't even fighting back for your rights to vape.

That's not true - At All. Many over here have been fighting the good fight, for years.

If you would have paid closer attention to, and read, the many threads on the topic here on ECF you wouldn't have made such an erroneous statement.

We've been fighting all along!

 

[dreamvaper]

Is there any similar analysis of public perceptions about vaping in the UK?

check the link in the 1st post - at the end of the article there is one from the UK

That's not true - At All. Many over here have been fighting the good fight, for years.

And that's why I wrote that most of you didn't. I believe it's a pretty safe bet to say that at least 51% of ECF users from US did nothing in sense of fighting for their vaping rights.

 

[ppeeble]

Money. The UK has the national health service - Losing revenue from the sale of tobacco (Cigarettes: 16.5% of the retail price plus £4.90 on a packet of 20) is massively offset by the savings on health (approx £2.5 Billion a year on smoking related illness)
It's always money. Every time. The science is always welcome as long as it aligns with the money.
And i really can't recall anyone in the UK fighting for their right to vape. We just grumbled a bit as all the ridiculous EU rules came into play...

 

[Jwaterski]

I’m guessing the UK doesn’t have the PSA’s that we have every day telling how vaping is killing the children.

 

[zoiDman]

let’s summarize the dire findings in that chart.

• “Don’t know” in this context is probably a significant barrier to switching. Given the conflicting and confusing information circulating, don’t know would be a reasonable answer and a reason not to risk switching.

Be Very Careful drawing Population Inferences based on Survey Means. Especially if the Survey Mechanics is Not Fully Understood. Or have a Significant Likelihood that they might Not Be Randomized or Reflective Samples.

Take that "I don't know/ never heard of e-cigs" Percentile.

First off, the Author of this Cumulative Bar Graph created this Category. And makes a Note in the Original Presentation of such...

"Note: ‘Don’t know’ is handled inconsistently across the surveys, so I have merged ‘don’t know’ and ‘never heard of e-cigarettes’ (some care needed)"

E-cigarette risk perceptions – an American crime scene

What is Interesting (at least to Me) is that the HINTS 4 CYCLE 4 (2014) related Question is " I've never heard of electronic cigarettes " with a response of 7%.

This seems almost Impossible that a Randomized Survey in 2014 can recoded that Only 7% of the individuals responded that they have "Never Heard of Electronic Cigarettes". Especially given the Results for the Previous and Following Years.

Compared to smoking cigarettes, would you say that electronic cigarettes are… | HINTS

The Other thing that is Subtle but Noteworthy is the use of "I don't know". Verses what the actual selection wording for Question D17 on the survey of "I don’t know enough about these products."

https://hints.cancer.gov/docs/Instruments/HINTS_FDA_English_AnnotatedForm.pdf

"I don't know" can be construed as an Accurately (or Inaccurately) Informed person saying they Can't Draw some Conclusion for a Multiple of Reasons. Whereas "I don’t know enough about these products." clearly Identifies a Perceived Lack of Information by the Survey taker.

A High Percentage response ( 15 ~ 20%) of "I don’t know enough about these products." should be a Huge Warning to Data Collectors that Overall Data Collected by this Survey may have too High of a Subjective Lean to be considered Factually Representative regarding Other Questions asked in the Survey.

All I'm say'n is that this Combining of Data Results and Rewording of Answer Results is Confusing as Best. And Mis-Leading as Worst. Especially given the Only 7% Response in 2014 for " I've never heard of electronic cigarettes " which should be a Huge Red Flag.

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TL/DR:

Careful reading Too Much into Bar Graphs of 3,700 or so Survey Takers when How the Survey was Administered or How well the Survey Participants was Randomized is Unknown.

I can make a Survey say just about Anything I want it to Say. Depending on How I Choose my Participants. And if I am Willing to Toss Out Surveys until I find the One I Want.

 

[zoiDman]

Money. The UK has the national health service - Losing revenue from the sale of tobacco (Cigarettes: 16.5% of the retail price plus £4.90 on a packet of 20) is massively offset by the savings on health (approx £2.5 Billion a year on smoking related illness)
It's always money. Every time. The science is always welcome as long as it aligns with the money.
And i really can't recall anyone in the UK fighting for their right to vape. We just grumbled a bit as all the ridiculous EU rules came into play...

Exactly.

If I'm the One who has to Foot the Bill when someone gets sick from Smoking and there is a Healthier Alternative, that is Going to Save Me Money, wouldn't I lean towards the Healthier Alternative if Nothing Else than from an Accounting Perspective?

Verses something like the US Health System, where the Push is for Individuals to buy Health Insurance. Let them get as Sick as they Want from something like Smoking. And then Just Raise Insurance Rates or make it Harder for Smokers to get Insurance.

 

[englishmick]

check the link in the 1st post - at the end of the article there is one from the UK

OK. Guess I bailed out before I got to that section. Looks like the process of turning the public against vaping in the UK has been progressing slowly but steadily. The numbers are still way better than in the US though.