The Abomination of Desolation?

[chimney55]

Dispensational Zionism

The future dispensational kingdom involves a racial prejudice favoring the Jews above even saved Gentiles during the millennium.

Replacement theology involves racism to incite Christian to hate Jews that have not come to faith. They rarely use the words "Christ killers" in their rhetoric today but the intent can be seen. It worked a few hundred years ago during the Spanish Inquisition. Today, they just hope and pray that the Arabs will get rid of the Jews. (which they won't but they'll die trying.)

 

[Southern Gent]

Well SG...you went and did it...got me studying all the more, lol! It's gonna take a while for me to break assimilate and break down.

I do want to say however that I have not stated that I am a dispensationalist...right from the start there are some things about dispensationalism in your definition I disagree with, lol!

Thanks....i think....oi......

Of course no one has to agree with it. It is just my reasons why i am not a dispensationalist. Everyone has a reason I suppose whether it be pro or con.

I'm soaking my hands in Palmolive right now.....Madge says hi

 

[Southern Gent]

Replacement theology involves racism to incite Christian to hate Jews that have not come to faith. They rarely use the words "Christ killers" in their rhetoric today but the intent can be seen. It worked a few hundred years ago during the Spanish Inquisition. Today, they just hope and pray that the Arabs will get rid of the Jews. (which they won't but they'll die trying.)

I don't know what "replacement theology does"....I'm more interested in what the Bible says. My point is that even a reverse rhetoric will not stand the test of scripture. If we listen to scripture there will be no rhetoric and all are accepted as equals.

 

[chimney55]

Third, dispensationalism has Christ endure a second humiliation by leaving heaven (which is His throne) to return to rule on earth (which is His footstool) only to finally have His personal Kingdom rule rebelled against.

Could I get an exact quote for your parenthetical statement that the earth is His footstool?

 

[chimney55]

I don't know what "replacement theology does"....I'm more interested in what the Bible says.

I realize that you don't care for labels. But replacement theology is a term for a teaching that says that the church replaced the Jews (even unsaved ones) as God's chosen people.

 

[Southern Gent]

Could I get an exact quote for your parenthetical statement that the earth is His footstool?

Isaiah 66:1

 

[Southern Gent]

I realize that you don't care for labels. But replacement theology is a term for a teaching that says that the church replaced the Jews (even unsaved ones) as God's chosen people.

This not what Paul taught nor is it the other way around that the Jewish nation would be exalted over the Gentile. The teaching is of equality. There is no upmanship between Jew & Gentile because in God's eyes they do not exist.

 

[lmrasch]

Okay Southern Gent....as I started studying Dispensationalism I thought to myself, "why am I studying something that is not even in the bible? This is a lable that man has put on a group of believers, making them a subgroup of Christianity...just as I don't follow Paul or Apollos, but Christ and him alone, I certainly will not put myself into a group that the bible doesn't even recognize. I really don't need the lable . This labeling business only further divides the body....

If we want to stick to scripture alone, I'm down with that but really don't want to waste my time and brain power on anything else....

Love ya brother

 

[Southern Gent]

Okay Southern Gent....as I started studying Dispensationalism I thought to myself, "why am I studying something that is not even in the bible? This is a lable that man has put on a group of believers, making them a subgroup of Christianity...just as I don't follow Paul or Apollos, but Christ and him alone, I certainly will not put myself into a group that the bible doesn't even recognize. I really don't need the lable . This labeling business only further divides the body....

If we want to stick to scripture alone, I'm down with that but really don't want to waste my time and brain power on anything else....

Love ya brother

It is a doctrine and you are correct that it is neither mentioned nor taught in scripture. Much the same as replacement theology is not mentioned nor taught. Both doctrines are an abomination that divides..it is therefore not scriptural. This has been my point the entire length of the discussion. It is for this reason that we need to know what it is we believe and why we believe it. This replacement theology by it's very nature (to teach the hatred of anyone) is not of God. The exalting of a Jewish nation over God's children is just as ungodly because it is not truth. If God was taken at His word concerning the matter...neither doctrine would exist. It is perhaps the truth that many adhere to one or the other without knowing exactly what it is they stand for.

 

[lmrasch]

It is a doctrine and you are correct that it is neither mentioned nor taught in scripture. Much the same as replacement theology is not mentioned nor taught. Both doctrines are an abomination that divides..it is therefore not scriptural. This has been my point the entire length of the discussion.

ok...I'm down with that ....no more labeling.....plain scripture. No more quotes from what a man has written in a commentary, I am trying to stay away from them...Discussion is good, as long as there is a two way dialogue going on.

I'll come right out and say to you, I have not gone through 8 years of seminary so my way of communication is different than yours. I am a pretty simple girl who has followed the Lord for 30+ years, following what I believe is a gospel that God has given us and tho not easy to interpret, it can be with the guidance of the Holy Spirit who has written the truth on our hearts as the plumbline.

My husband was a pastor at one time, so I know what "practicing religion" is like and I try to stay away from doing that. Not that the church was teaching me that, just that I played a "role". Climbing of the ladder in order to reach the pinaccle, thinking somehow that would make me closer to God....I was wrong. Yes, I loved the Lord, yes I read the Word, yes I sought truth...however, because of politics I missed the mark. Things that were supposed to be important, weren't. Programs became important, numbers became important, and my pastor preaching on the radio became important...which lead to money becoming more important....Life experience has taught me the most as far as application of the Word, and oh what a life it has been.

There are mysteries that God is yet to reveal to me, and I pray that I am not so schooled in my mind that when I'm 80 I can say that there isn't something yet to be learned and that I may have been wrong about some things.

My desire is that my heart stay pliable, my mind conformed to that of Christ's, and humble enough to study all the more to prove what scripture is saying to my heart.

Every day there is something new that God is showing me through the Word, things that I simply didn't see before or didn't see a need to apply at the time. I am grateful that His mercies are new every morning. God is already showing me things about myself through my relationship with you brother...how studying is important, and becoming a workman needing not to be ashamed, correctly handling the word of truth. Although I don't agree with you, I see that your drive to get your point across has driven me deeper into the Word. I truly am trying to understand where you are coming from, it's just a difficult road, we seem to be on opposite sides of the same fence, lol. If we do end up on the same side of the same fence with our beliefs I would be more than thrilled, but even if we don't....I thank God for you.

Pray for me that I would be open to learn more from the Word of truth as God sees it and I will do the same for you...that is all that really matters anyway.

 

[lmrasch]

It is a doctrine and you are correct that it is neither mentioned nor taught in scripture. Much the same as replacement theology is not mentioned nor taught. Both doctrines are an abomination that divides..it is therefore not scriptural. This has been my point the entire length of the discussion. It is for this reason that we need to know what it is we believe and why we believe it. This replacement theology by it's very nature (to teach the hatred of anyone) is not of God. The exalting of a Jewish nation over God's children is just as ungodly because it is not truth. If God was taken at His word concerning the matter...neither doctrine would exist. It is perhaps the truth that many adhere to one or the other without knowing exactly what it is they stand for.

Haha..you added some stuff while I was drafting my response....sneaky, sneaky...nah just kidding. But anywhoo...I guess the understanding of who the Jewish nation is regarding God and us is where we don't see eye to eye. While I don't exalt them OVER us, I do see that they are special to God because God says so.

 

[blondeambition3]

ok...I'm down with that ....no more labeling.....plain scripture. No more quotes from what a man has written in a commentary, I am trying to stay away from them...Discussion is good, as long as there is a two way dialogue going on.

I'll come right out and say to you, I have not gone through 8 years of seminary so my way of communication is different than yours. I am a pretty simple girl who has followed the Lord for 30+ years, following what I believe is a gospel that God has given us and tho not easy to interpret, it can be with the guidance of the Holy Spirit who has written the truth on our hearts as the plumbline.

My husband was a pastor at one time, so I know what "practicing religion" is like and I try to stay away from doing that. Not that the church was teaching me that, just that I played a "role". Climbing of the ladder in order to reach the pinaccle, thinking somehow that would make me closer to God....I was wrong. Yes, I loved the Lord, yes I read the Word, yes I sought truth...however, because of politics I missed the mark. Things that were supposed to be important, weren't. Programs became important, numbers became important, and my pastor preaching on the radio became important...which lead to money becoming more important....Life experience has taught me the most as far as application of the Word, and oh what a life it has been.

There are mysteries that God is yet to reveal to me, and I pray that I am not so schooled in my mind that when I'm 80 I can say that there isn't something yet to be learned and that I may have been wrong about some things.

My desire is that my heart stay pliable, my mind conformed to that of Christ's, and humble enough to study all the more to prove what scripture is saying to my heart.

Every day there is something new that God is showing me through the Word, things that I simply didn't see before or didn't see a need to apply at the time. I am grateful that His mercies are new every morning. God is already showing me things about myself through my relationship with you brother...how studying is important, and becoming a workman needing not to be ashamed, correctly handling the word of truth. Although I don't agree with you, I see that your drive to get your point across has driven me deeper into the Word. I truly am trying to understand where you are coming from, it's just a difficult road, we seem to be on opposite sides of the same fence, lol. If we do end up on the same side of the same fence with our beliefs I would be more than thrilled, but even if we don't....I thank God for you.

Pray for me that I would be open to learn more from the Word of truth as God sees it and I will do the same for you...that is all that really matters anyway.

Me too SG! I'm down with that too! Finally we're on the same page and we won't use any more 'labels' because now I finally fully 'got' what you're saying. I think I will ALWAYS have a burden for Israel and her current 'state of the World' position, but I do fully recognize and 'see' where you're coming from scripturally.

 

[Southern Gent]

Haha..you added some stuff while I was drafting my response....sneaky, sneaky...nah just kidding. But anywhoo...I guess the understanding of who the Jewish nation is regarding God and us is where we don't see eye to eye. While I don't exalt them OVER us, I do see that they are special to God because God says so.

Right. You perhaps see them as special whereas I can find nothing that indicates that they are any different from anyone else whether it be good or bad. If I were to preach in Israel, I would preach the same message that I preach here. I would not preach their destruction and doom...I would not preach their exaltation because either and both would lead to the loss of souls, division and arrogance. As the apostle Paul preached without question: a child of God is a child of God regardless of his color, race or location on a map. God himself has erased all of that conjecture because it was exactly that conjecture that caused the rejection of his Son.......but we as humans tend to like conjecture for whatever reason.

 

[blondeambition3]

Right. You perhaps see them as special whereas I can find nothing that indicates that they are any different from anyone else whether it be good or bad. If I were to preach in Israel, I would preach the same message that I preach here. I would not preach their destruction and doom...I would not preach their exaltation because either and both would lead to the loss of souls, division and arrogance. As the apostle Paul preached without question: a child of God is a child of God regardless of his color, race or location on a map. God himself has erased all of that conjecture because it was exactly that conjecture that caused the rejection of his Son.

I am really with you on this SG! Hallelujah!

 

[Southern Gent]

I am really with you on this SG! Hallelujah!

Amen.....it is a Christian thing that we have done....

 

[Southern Gent]

Me too SG! I'm down with that too! Finally we're on the same page and we won't use any more 'labels' because now I finally fully 'got' what you're saying. I think I will ALWAYS have a burden for Israel and her current 'state of the World' position, but I do fully recognize and 'see' where you're coming from scripturally.

We are children of the Almighty God....yea indeed brothers and sisters

 

[Southern Gent]

My husband was a pastor at one time, so I know what "practicing religion" is like and I try to stay away from doing that. Not that the church was teaching me that, just that I played a "role". Climbing of the ladder in order to reach the pinaccle, thinking somehow that would make me closer to God....I was wrong. Yes, I loved the Lord, yes I read the Word, yes I sought truth...however, because of politics I missed the mark. Things that were supposed to be important, weren't. Programs became important, numbers became important, and my pastor preaching on the radio became important...which lead to money becoming more important....

This is very telling of the way things are. When programs and rules become more important than people then we have ourselves a serious problem. Jesus told the people, unless your religion is better than the Pharisees you will not see heaven. Indeed the Pharisees placed their emphasis on the program and rules while the people withered away. Instead of concerning ourselves with every other nations salvation, perhaps we should be asking prayers and intervention on our own behalf. It is surely telling but also very true.

 

[blondeambition3]

We are children of the Almighty God....yea indeed brothers and sisters

Amen! Hallelujah! Now we can indeed rejoice (in love like the Brethren we are!)... as we are indeed Brothers & Sisters in Christ!

 

[blondeambition3]

This is very telling of the way things are. When programs and rules become more important than people then we have ourselves a serious problem. Jesus told the people, unless your religion is better than the Pharisees you will not see heaven. Indeed the Pharisees placed their emphasis on the program and rules while the people withered away. Instead of concerning ourselves with every other nations salvation, perhaps we should be asking prayers and intervention on our own behalf. It is surely telling but also very true.

Amen Brother SG! This is a definite truth.

 

[chimney55]

We are children of the Almighty God....yea indeed brothers and sisters

I see that we neither one of us will move from our stance. To keep peace on the forum, I am no longer going to argue the point. (but I can't promise that we won't .... heads elsewhere. )