The Alien Vapors vs AVE issue...

[dr g]

just to clarify- they are both legitimate sellers.

Insomuch as the scam company is violating trademark to sell its product AND trying to steal that trademark, I strongly disagree.

 

[peterforpats]

Insomuch as the scam company is violating trademark to sell its product AND trying to steal that trademark, I strongly disagree.

just to be clear I am not defending "the company that shall not be named"- but short of a legal decision everything is just opinion. I agree , but alien visions e-juice has done nothing to counter the other company's claims or product- if they can't be bothered why should I be bothered? I know which company to order from- caveat emptor

 

[dr g]

just to be clear I am not defending "the company that shall not be named"- but short of a legal decision everything is just opinion. I agree , but alien visions e-juice has done nothing to counter the other company's claims or product- if they can't be bothered why should I be bothered? I know which company to order from- caveat emptor

No legal decision is required for it to be plain the other company is appropriating the trademark. That's because a legal decision is not required to establish a trademark, it's when a company uses the mark in commerce. Clearly, AVE has been using the mark for years before AV started its scam.

We can all see they are violating the trademark, the fact that AVE hasn't (yet) pursued legal action to shut them down doesn't make their actions legitimate. That would be like saying something isn't a crime unless you get caught.

 

[Tatsel_Morte]

But...It's not a crime if I don't get caught. It's an accomplishment. lol

Still, AVE should have began to at least try to stop this. It's just plain wrong...

 

[dr g]

But...It's not a crime if I don't get caught. It's an accomplishment. lol

Heh funny, but false. Then again, us noticing what they are doing is them getting caught.

 

[InTheShade]

...but I'll concede the point since it's not the crux of what I was saying...

That's too funny. It wasn't the crux?

No this is not the same, if someone made a clone recipe of boba's and called it something else that would be fine. The Smok tank is not called a Vivi Nova, that would be a trademark infringement (if it were enforceable).

That's pretty plain to me. That was exactly what you were saying.

Come on, we're not idiots on this forum. Please don't insult our intelligence by "conceding a point" when you should just be saying "I'm sorry I was wrong"

 

[dr g]

That's pretty plain to me. That was exactly what you were saying.

... in the cherrypicked portion of the post you quoted.

Come on, we're not idiots on this forum. Please don't insult our intelligence by "conceding a point" when you should just be saying "I'm sorry I was wrong"

No, that wasn't the point of what I was saying at all. The rest of my post you neglected to quote makes it clear:

The issue here is the fact that Boba's Bounty is an established trademark. It is critical to the identification of the juice and this other company using the mark is not kosher at all. Being that both companies are in the US something CAN be done about it. IMO AVE has more than enough income to put a lawyer on the case.

Trademark infringement is eminently actionable in the US. Less so in China, as I alluded to in your quoted material. I am well aware, as you should be, of the use of what would be brand names in the US as descriptors of cloned goods in China. That fact that I didn't think the smok vivi was one of these products in no way nullifies what I said, and I specifically noted the fact that this is done in China with impunity.

 

[InTheShade]

AVEJuice is the right site. Man it's pretty disgusting that we even have to say that.



No this is not the same, if someone made a clone recipe of boba's and called it something else that would be fine. The Smok tank is not called a Vivi Nova, that would be a trademark infringement (if it were enforceable).

The issue here is the fact that Boba's Bounty is an established trademark. It is critical to the identification of the juice and this other company using the mark is not kosher at all. Being that both companies are in the US something CAN be done about it. IMO AVE has more than enough income to put a lawyer on the case.

Feel free to apologize to the poster that you dismissed out of hand any time you like.

 

[zapped]

There is no issue.

Alien Vapors is run by a P.O.S

Your issue could have been easily avoided by taking the time to read the threads of approved vendors and doing your homework.

Im sorry you ran into this problem but it really is your own fault and no one elses.

 

[six]

Ever heard of RY4 ? was Dekang, Hagsen, Ruyan or someone else the originator?
How many reputable juice suppliers make a copy/version of ry4 and name their version ry4,,, almost all of them.
Same goes for most if not all popular flavors.

Not everyone agrees that AVE's boba's bounty is anything special or even good.
If push came to shove seems the one that registered the name would have the rights to the name if there were any such thing.

Fraud, no. Shady business practice, maybe, Business as usual for ejuice makers, yes.
Flavor names have been ripped off for as long as ejuice has been around.

I haven't read the entire thread before replying, so if someone else addressed this, I will later edit:

You do not understand the RY4 issue. And, if using it as an example, you really should. The search box can be helpful with this and so can google. So, if you want all of the details, you can search. Otherwise, I will be happy to nutshell it: Once upon a time, juice came but from but a couple of sources (of course that didn't stay that way long...). --> RY4 was a favorite among many - the recipe changed - the fellow who developed the flavor to begin with left the company and joined the other - . Meanwhile, RY4 as it once tasted was unavailable. It could not be had for love nor money. - At the second company, the fellow who developed the flavor was unable to reproduce it (missing ingredient was the rumor - exclusive to the company he left). RY4 remained not what it began as and the original formula still could not be had. In fact, it still does not exist in either company. The guy who made it could not reproduce it, and the company he left could not retrieve the recipe. It is lost forever for whatever reason.

So. A few folks tried to sort it out. A lot of that was done by trial and error and discussion among members of this very forum... Still to this day, no one has quite done it as far as I can tell.

As to "business as usual for ejuice makers"... well, I'm not sure I can see your point of view.

I will say, though: ECF has indeed occasionally warned its members about fraudsters, defective products, and other similar issues. The OP seems to be asking for them to continue that tradition regarding this issue. It does seem to me that isn't a bad idea. I'm just not so sure if ECF thinks such intervention is in their best interest. With such high google rankings, they do have the power to make or break a vendor, so maybe they've considered that fact and are hesitant to be seen as abusing that power. Who knows? --- Our talking about Alien Vapers not being legit here on ECF might be plenty in the long run without any official statement, really. Again: The google rankings and quick indexing of this forum really has some power....

EDIT: Not that anyone addressed this previously, but I forgot to answer your question. RY4 tells you all by itself where it came from first in its own name. RY - 4th Recipe. Ruyan.

I forgot to really express any sort of opinion and that, I think, is also something the OP was looking to get. My opinion is simple. If that "company" will use such a method to try to make a buck, what might they use in your Juice to make a buck... or what might they leave out... or how much are they willing to invest in quality ingredients, a clean place to make the juice, or even proper safety measures? It would be worth ordering some and getting it tested. There used to be a member who worked in a lab who would test nic levels and other details. Maybe that individual might show up and do us all another favor like he did when a supposed lab grade nic vendor was selling dangerous amounts of nic packaged as safe amounts of nic.

 

[six]

Yes it would be straight forward If push came to shove legally speaking.
Alien Visions E juice - AVE (the one that produces the subjectively better tasting version) would lose the right to use the name.
Alien Vapors - AV ( the one that produces a nastier tasting version) registered the name Boba's Bounty.

What can be done about it is recommend the one you prefer.

Well, that's why we have what is called "Prior Art" in our trademark and copyright laws. If they actually had to fight it out in court, the scammers at Alien Vapers would lose the house. --- Full disclosure: I used to sit through hearings on these sorts of issues. I did litigation support for a few lawfirms who specialize in these cases. Prior Art is the thorn in the proverbial sides of scammers like Alien Vapers. No matter what moves they've made to trademark a product name, they're out of luck when prior art comes out and usually the judge just stops the proceedings and rules... I even saw one judge not only stop and rule, but also suggest a method of countersuit to retrieve damages (and his advice was completely successful even beyond the wildest dreams of the party we represented.).