The BBC Takes A Stab At E-Cigarettes

[NoizMaker]

Hey guys,

I was watching Hifistud's VapourTrails show archive today and he covered some disturbing news that worries me big time.

I am not sure which questions to ask, or what to really do with this information, so I decided to share it and get everyone's thoughts on it.

Read The Article - Click Here

To me (and this is just my opinion) this whole article seems a little contrived. The article mentions "oils" that are generally not present in e-liquid as well. I am not a medical professional at all and wouldn't even know where to begin when it comes to all of this... But I can see how inhaling oils could be damaging.

They claim it is possible that this man died from electronic cigarettes... Which I think is a really big claim to be making with no evidence other than an xray and a theory. But hey, what do I know right?

This can't be good news for any of us though, as the bans are rolled out across the states and HC is seizing more shipments now more than ever (but keep in mind it is still relatively safe to import whatever you want from OOC).

So, what do you think?

 

[Kams Cats]

Well the only thing I can think of is someone making their own juices and using oil based flavourings. Is that possible? Then really doing a lot of heavy vaping.

 

[NoizMaker]

Well the only thing I can think of is someone making their own juices and using oil based flavourings. Is that possible? Then really doing a lot of heavy vaping.

Well what is particularly interesting is that it says this about what he was vaping - "...Dr Allcock said that the brand Mr Miller had been using seemed to involve a mixture of nicotine and some oil..."

It may be possible he was DIY'ing the juice but that excerpt indicates it was a specific companies juices. No way to know really

 

[smokum]

Managed to come across this so far...... but I'm still reading and searching....

ECITA BLOG

 

[NoizMaker]

Managed to come across this so far...... but I'm still reading and searching....

ECITA BLOG

Thank you for the info Greg. That information sure does give a bit of a clearer picture. Looks like the man started vaping in October of 09... *looks at joined date*

 

[smokum]

I see this Doctor's name mentioned in quite a few past cessation discussions as well as on voting panels in support of smoking bans. No concrete links yet.... but its sure starting to smell fishy to me.....

 

[smokum]

There is also a discussion here on ECF started by RoyalGate :ECF discussion of topic

 

[NoizMaker]

Gave the other thread a read and it is very interesting to say the least. Isn't it a complete and total conflict of interest for an "un-biased" news network to publish this article? Especially when the Dr didn't do a single test on the oils found in his lungs, the e-liquid or device he was using?

I know he didn't come right out and say it, but the article is certainly skewed more towards making the claims of E-Cig users seem like biased malarky... When we all know differently.

 

[smokum]

Well come on...... he "is" a doctor isn't he ? And they never lie or have personal agenda's right ?

 

[rachelcoffe]

That "doctor" is talking pure and utter b.s.!

Firstly, e-juice doesn't contain "oils" - if it did, it would clog & kill your atty like that. Everyone knows that. Everyone except this guy. If there were the kind of oils in there that we're talking about, it wouldn't be vapable. The atty would cease to function almost immediately.

---

Secondly, this clod admits that he has no idea what his patient's e-juice contained...and he still hasn't tested it, or examined it. He's just speculating out of his behind! His term was that it "seemed" to contain oils. Idiot. Perhaps he thinks a counterfeit bill that "seems" like real money is legal tender. Perhaps he thinks that a little white pill that "seems" like Aspirin can't possibly be something else. Perhaps he'll go berry-picking next in the woods & find some berries that "seem" to be perfectly safe, and eat the lot of them.

---

Thirdly, contrary to the falsehood he stated, there is indeed plenty of "systematic research assessing the overall safety of inhaling" the ingredients in e-juice.

Doubtless this alleged "doctor" has no idea that PG is not only used extensively in food & drink, but that it is also commonly used as an inhalant - in asthma inhalers as a carrier, and in some hospitals as an air disinfectant, to mention just two examples. And nicotine is inhaled in all manner of ways, deadly & safe.

---

Lastly (and it's the most irresponsible, laughable statement)...he speculates that vaping "may" have killed his patient. And this speculation is based solely on what - his uninformed guess? Considering that he's already plainly demonstrated that he knows nothing about the basic nature & ingredients of e-juice, and that he didn't test or analyze the e-juice...I'd bet good money he hasn't conducted an autopsy, either. Continuing on...how old was the patient? What was his medical history? Lifestyle habits, drug use? How long had he suffered from his rare condition? All relevant questions.

(EDIT: OMG, the patient had arterial disease and emphysema!!! Go figure!)

---

Consider...if vaping was in any way responsible, do you honestly believe we would not have seen a great many deaths by now? Or certainly a dramatic increase in reported cases of lipid pneumonia?

Of course we would have. And surprise surprise: we haven't. No one has. Because vaping doesn't cause this condition, and that's a fact. It's a fact because we haven't seen any notable increase in reported cases of the above condition (a very rare, unusual form of pneumonia), and because no one in the world has noted any rise in deaths amongst vapers. None whatsoever.

In fact, the only noteworthy condition that countless doctors have noted amongst vapers is a great improvement in health!

So relax, calm down, and dismiss this tabloid nonsense for what it is: feces. It's no more credible than the story about Elvis having just opened a cafe on the moon, in secret cooperation with Richard Branson.

EDIT: Even better - Peter Cole of Decadent Vapours confirmed the following: "If the residue is a non-volatile oil, it must have come from [tobacco] cigs, not e-cigs. Essential oils readily evaporate at ambient temperatures and wouldn’t leave any oily residue in the lungs. If you put non-volatile oils into an eliquid, they don’t make it into the vapour because they will just burn on the coil rather than vaporise." And clog it up & kill it, as we also know...in short order.

Keep on vaping, friends! This hogwash story was just that - hogwash. It's the same sort of tripe that we saw in the FDA's now-debunked "cartridge analysis" & just as that didn't hold any water, nor does this. It is demonstrably, provably crap. And no doubt someone down the road will conduct specific clinical tests to prove it, just to say "look, we tested the bleeding obvious for you, ok?" But yeah.

 

[wood]

it worries me especially with all the vaper complaining of sick feelings
just kinda scary

 

[NoizMaker]

it worries me especially with all the vaper complaining of sick feelings
just kinda scary

Well, coming from one person who has experienced some discomfort with vaping I can say it was nothing compared to smoking. When I woke up in the mornings as a smoker I almost dreaded my first deep breath... It hurt and felt like pins and needles.

A year and a half into vaping and my lungs feel great! My first breath in the morning isn't painful and I can't wait for my morning vape. I did have some symptoms for a while, but since I started moving away from PG (which is the culprit for me) I have been a-ok and back to vaping with no worries. Not all are this lucky and I am relieved that I can at least Vape PG/VG mixes in the meantime.

My personal opinion on the matter is that everyone's body is different and we are not "meant" to be inhaling VG or PG or even nicotine into our lungs. I am sure there has to be some kind of health effects to it, but at this point we really don't know.

If you probe a little deeper, you will find out that this Doc certainly does have time and work invested into anti-smoking advocacy and has nothing to substantiate his claim other than a wild hypothesis.

 

[Kobudo]

I have been vaping for over a year, and have never felt better. It's pretty obvious from the ECITA blog post, as well as a basic understanding of what is and is not in a vaporizer, that the man in the article had some pre-existing medical conditions due to smoking. Sounds like he needed to switch about 15 years ago, if it would have been possible.

 

[TTP]

Gave the other thread a read and it is very interesting to say the least. Isn't it a complete and total conflict of interest for an "un-biased" news network to publish this article? Especially when the Dr didn't do a single test on the oils found in his lungs, the e-liquid or device he was using? ...

It might be un-ethical, but not unheard of. Remember the whole "Vaccines are the cause of Autism" bandwagon?

 

[IanK1968]

I dont know what this "oily substance this quack scare monger is talking about.

PG is a mineral based oil and breaks down very quickly in the body, they are very difficult to detect. So PG is out as the "oily substance" on his lungs.

VG is used in aroma therapy, is very safe, and like PG does not last long enough in the lungs for a doctor to find an "oily substance"

This doctor is full of poo poo for lack of a better word. If the guy quit using the e-cig 2 months before he died then there would be absolutly no chance in hell there would be any "oily substance" from PG or VG seeing the oils dont make it to the lungs after being zapped in the atty, and whatever reaches your lungs disappears within minutes. You would have to vape a HECK of a lot of PG and VG for any "Oily substance" to remain on the lungs, like vaping 20 e-cigs not stop at the sametime over weeks after the lungs will still get rid of the oils within a couple hours, maybe a day.

I wish these docs would do some investigation before opening their mouths.

 

[NoizMaker]

It might be un-ethical, but not unheard of. Remember the whole "Vaccines are the cause of Autism" bandwagon?

Haha I certainly remember. I am glad the Doc who started that lost his license.

 

[IanK1968]

continuation to my previous post.

Candy oils. Some are used as an inhalant such as the peppermint and Cinnamon candy oil which is used as a decongestant. But I cant find any other info on candy oils. I still cant see these oils remaining in your lungs over 2 months. Then again im still very new and all I know is what ive learned prior to me choosing e-cigs which isnt much lol

Nicotine liquid. Nicotine is a liquid alkaloid. It is water soluble, that eliminates that right there.

Is there anything Iam missing?

The sick feelings I got, was first day OD'ing myself lol, the nausea probably detoxing from all the tar and crap and getting used to vaping. The taste issues could be anything from me catching a cold, to my taste buds coming back, to my juice steeping to long. PG and VG are safe to inhale. Nicotine you would have to inhale 5mg in a pretty short period to get a very mild case of nicotine poisoning. You would really have to get your vap on to do that.

All this stuff I have learned in a short period and some of it is probably wrong, Iam still learning, so forgive me in advance for any mucks ups in my posts.

 

[kelleymcm]

another BS indicator here is ...
If the DR suspected e-cigs contributed to this man's death,
why wait till now to bring it up ?

The poor man died over 6 months ago !

This is just sensationalism...which is just a long word for CRAP!!!

pleasse excuse me for jumping into your conversation ....

 

[NoizMaker]

continuation to my previous post.

Candy oils. Some are used as an inhalant such as the peppermint and Cinnamon candy oil which is used as a decongestant. But I cant find any other info on candy oils. I still cant see these oils remaining in your lungs over 2 months. Then again im still very new and all I know is what ive learned prior to me choosing e-cigs which isnt much lol

Nicotine liquid. Nicotine is a liquid alkaloid. It is water soluble, that eliminates that right there.

Is there anything Iam missing?

The sick feelings I got, was first day OD'ing myself lol, the nausea probably detoxing from all the tar and crap and getting used to vaping. The taste issues could be anything from me catching a cold, to my taste buds coming back, to my juice steeping to long. PG and VG are safe to inhale. Nicotine you would have to inhale 5mg in a pretty short period to get a very mild case of nicotine poisoning. You would really have to get your vap on to do that.

All this stuff I have learned in a short period and some of it is probably wrong, Iam still learning, so forgive me in advance for any mucks ups in my posts.

I believe everything you just said sounds about right to me. I stay away from oils completely because I am such a freak for atomizer life. I don't have any medical expertise, but I can say that I have never felt healthier in my whole life.

To me, the BBC has lost all credibility with this (what little they had in the first place) and this blatant fear-mongering misinformation piece is more than frustrating. We obviously have to get our ducks in a row and figure out a way for vaping to be tested.

 

[IanK1968]

We need to know how much PG and VG we are truly taking in every day. if we vape 80%vg and 20%vg (for arguments sake) we vape 4ml a day. we are taking in 3.2ml of pg and .8ml of vg. (this is inaccurate but close top real) how fast does out bodies get rid of the oils, how much is deemed safe to inhale. those are 2 that need to be tested. If they are and anyone knows please let me know. Is it safer to inhale PG rather then VG or vice versa. Is candy oil bad. Nicotine pretty much has been tested to exhaustion with the gum, patch, lozenge, cigarettes, nicorete inhaler. Its the other stuff I would like to get a definitive answer on.