The Cessation Claim

[AndriaD]

Kudos. Nice troll but since there is no smoke in vaping, your point is moot. It is imitating smoking at best.

Thank you. My mom said the same thing, to which I replied "No cigarette - no fire - no ash - no smoke -- NO SMOKING!"

vaping is definitely not smoking; it's a placebo for smoking, as well as a nicotine delivery system.

Andria

 

[Alien Traveler]

vaping IS Smoking! Saying vaping helps you quit smoking is another smoker's denial and rationalization. This is so funny.

It is funny. Thanks.

 

[DC2]

Im trying to understand here DC2, I dont see anywhere here where anyone believes we are all alike. So what gives. Do people sharing their experiences upset you or am I just taking this wrong.

If I wanted to respond to something someone specifically said, I would have quoted them.
So really it was more of a general statement, driven by frustration of seeing 5 years worth of threads from people who often don't get it.


New members always come in here thinking "this is what everything is all about, and now I'll tell you so you can all know".
And there are plenty of members that have been around awhile that still don't get it.

And every now and then I take an opportunity (like this thread) to tell them and everyone else how wrong that is.

 

[DC2]

Not going to speak for DC2, but I think, after reading his posts for over a year, what he means is that many people on here think vaping is an either/or proposition.

I would certainly agree that vaping is not an either/or proposition.
Nobody has to quit smoking if they don't want to.

And there are MANY ways to use vaping to get there if you DO want to.


But mainly I was frustrated with the idea that you have to WANT to quit for vaping to work.
That implies that people who are still struggling to quit just don't want to, when it may be MANY other reasons.

 

[AndriaD]

If I wanted to respond to something someone specifically said, I would have quoted them.
So really it was more of a general statement, driven by frustration of seeing 5 years worth of threads from people who often don't get it.


New members always come in here thinking "this is what everything is all about, and now I'll tell you so you can all know".
And there are plenty of members that have been around awhile that still don't get it.

And every now and then I take an opportunity (like this thread) to tell them and everyone else how wrong that is.

And some of us really appreciate it!

Lots of folks say they take one vape and never smoke again. Didn't work that way for me, I had to prove it to myself over about a month's time -- both times.

People say "throw those cigarettes out!" which wouldn't work for me at all, but they don't seem to understand that I have to give myself the option to make a free choice, because without that free choice, I get mad, I feel coerced, and resentment sets in, which is highly detrimental to staying smoke-free -- I'd probably go buy a pack and smoke, just to show that I can make my own choices! The fact of having a partial-pack in a ziplock in my freezer gives me the freedom to choose to not smoke.

Lots of folks seem to think that VG is the end-all and be-all, and if it suffocates me, that's just my imagination. Sorry, but being unable to breathe is NOT imaginary.

And apparently some people even think that vaping IS smoking. It's not -- it cannot be smoking, when there is NO SMOKE. I haven't smoked in 105 days; therefore I am a non-smoker.

Andria

 

[DC2]

My apologies, my friend. That post was not directed at you, but rather as an add-on to DC2's post above mine. Offering options and opinions is what this site is all about.
Making a claim to know the 'best' option for everyone, as some here do, is disingenuous at best.

And I will add to my other previous posts above... what he said!

 

[DC2]

Yet, in last 10 people I tried to convert to vaping, it was the fiddle / ritual factor that SUNK THEM.

I would have never made the switch if I had to keep screwing with leaking cartridges, inconsistent performance, and wicking issues.
Luckily there have been so many advances since I started that those thing are often not something you HAVE to deal with.

I love the ritual, and in fact smoked and now vape mostly BECAUSE of the ritual and everything that surrounds it.
But I HATED fiddling with a serious passion, because it interrupted and basically ruined MY ritual.

 

[Racehorse]

Yet how many times have we heard anyone say "I started chewing nic gum and within days I was a non smoker". How about never.

That was kinda one of the points I made.

You're not going to hear that here because this is a VAPING FORUM.

Keep in mind, over the last 30 years, we know millions upon millions of people have quit smoking, using other harm reduction methods, NRT, SNUS because vaping wasn't around.

If they had already quit, using other methods, they wouldn't be here on a vaping forum most likely.


Look, I don't feel the need to lord it over everything else........whatever helps people with dependencies that may harm their health, I'm all for it.

And I don't like saying "it's only about willpower" because that presupposes that some vapers on here are lazy sloths, because they are vaping and still smoking.......and I say that whatever *brain* neurotransmitters, or digestive disorders, or dependencies they have may not be easily overcome......as a matter of fact, they may not be overcome at all. And that is okay. They are seeking and trying.

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

Vaping is great!~

But I am careful not to make statements, that anyone or anything is "The Way and The Light". (Because only budding cult leaders, their followers and extremists think like that. )

All harm reduction, if it works for somebody, is okay with me.

(I was quit for well over 5 years and I did it on Chantix.) Yes, it was uncomfortable. But it worked until my dog had a terrible hiking accident and I bought cigs). Now I have another harm reduction method to fall back on so will most likely stay quit

 

[Racehorse]

2. If you can quit smoking for a significant period (perhaps 6 months or so), until your sense of taste and smell return, you will no longer like the taste of smoking.

THAT is a good point, one I don't think about but very true!

 

[Phoenix07013]

Was thinking yesterday about the cessation claim of smokers to vapers. I'm not one that has ceased smoking, but am one who has cut so far back that when anyone asks me "are you a smoker," I hesitate for a good 5 seconds and usually respond with, "I'm a happy moderate smoker. Haven't had a smoke in x amount of days."

Anyway, yesterday I was thinking about the many vapers on forums who are (or were):
A. heavy smokers (3+ packs a day)
B. long time smokers (30+ years)
C. having no intention to stop smoking
D. and went on to cease smoking within first week of vaping.

That, IMO, is amazing. I don't know of any other cessation method that could work that well. I was also thinking, yesterday, that I'm kinda surprised cessation isn't 100%. Then followed that up with idea that I'm not part of the cessation crowd, but am part of crowd that has reduced so greatly that I often wonder how any vaper (of open system devices) could continue on as heavy smoker. I honestly find that impossible unless one is trying to do both just to prove some, rather juvenile, point. About 3 weeks ago, I had all of 6 smokes in a day. Vaped normally after that, and it was another week before I had another smoke. As one who's quit cold turkey, I don't think it would be possible to have 6 smokes in a day, have one a week later, and not soon be back to smoking a pack a day or more.

Vaping takes heavy smoking and, rather quickly, reduces it to light smoker and as demonstrated by A, B, C and D above, can take very heavy smoker and reduce them to non-smoker in 7 days or less. I continue to be amazed by stories of people that smoked twice as much as me at my peak (of heavy smoking) and who when trying vaping cut down to zero smokes in a very short period of time.

I am honestly a little surprised that the cessation rate isn't at or very close to 100% for those who do wish to stop smoking. For those who don't, I would be a little amazed if it didn't reduce them to moderate smoker, though with stipulation that might take some time (like 90 days, maybe a little longer). And yet, there are plenty of stories around (online) where the heaviest of smokers with zero intention to quit, have quit smoking in less than a week via vaping. Again, that continues to amaze me.

Just from a statistics perspective it would be hard to come up with an actual rate. In my experience, the people I run into that are avid papers and used to be smokers, are tinkerers, self-reliant and DIYers. The fact that there are forums where people take time to post on makes it hard to come up with a population of failed papers. Someone who couldn't get into it is not going to post.
Vaping is one of those things that is very easily turned into a hobby. This was the case with me, but that was because I am heavy internet user. I say this because at the time I got into vaping there weren't many brick and mortar stores in the area. Without the resources offered in this forum and other internet resources I would be at a loss and would have likely turned back to cigarettes.

 

[AndriaD]

Just from a statistics perspective it would be hard to come up with an actual rate. In my experience, the people I run into that are avid papers and used to be smokers, are tinkerers, self-reliant and DIYers. The fact that there are forums where people take time to post on makes it hard to come up with a population of failed papers. Someone who couldn't get into it is not going to post.
Vaping is one of those things that is very easily turned into a hobby. This was the case with me, but that was because I am heavy internet user. I say this because at the time I got into vaping there weren't many brick and mortar stores in the area. Without the resources offered in this forum and other internet resources I would be at a loss and would have likely turned back to cigarettes.

LOL! If I lost my internet, I'd be in as bad a shape as a cold turkey cigarette quitter! I am COMPLETELY dependant on being able to reach out around the world and find out pretty much anything I want to know!

Just being without the ECF on my 5th and 6th days smoke-free made me a basket case!

Andria

 

[Jman8]

As OP of this thread, I'm not sure what this thread is about anymore.

But what you all are posting I find interesting to read and glad you are all contributing.

I feel unique among ECF'ers.

I'm a dual user that currently doesn't have intention to quit.

Compared to the long term, very heavy smokers, I was a 'light' smoker. But when I was buying 2 PADs and smoking like a chimney for 2 years at one point and then another stint of 1 to 1.5 PAD for about 6 years, I didn't feel like a light smoker nor remotely close to social smoker.

And yet, I have had success going cold turkey. One time for 8.5 years, another time for 2 years, and a third time for 1.5 years. So, one might think once I was into vaping, I'd quit easy. And to this day, I do believe I could quit easy, but am between kinda happy and extremely pleased to be a moderate / social smoker.

I am amazed that cessation isn't higher than say 60 to 70% of all that try (open system) vaping because I think most people don't care to entertain being 'social smoker' and just assume quit if they find something that can truly replace their cravings for smokes. And each time I read of heavy / long term smoker ceasing without much trying or much desire to quit (entirely), I'm thinking anyone short of heaviest of the heavies ought to have easier time.

At same time, as dual user, I do think it would help some potential users to not think of vaping as way to replace smoking. Like don't even advocate for that, and let it be entirely up to the person. Armed with knowledge that the heaviest smokers have ceased, it really ought to be unspoken that you may someday (very soon) wish to stop smoking if you are now vaping.

Also seems a little weird to me that we celebrate people quitting smoking here but not too much celebrating going on for dual users that have cut way back. Packs nowadays last me 3 weeks. I bought a new pack last night (while out being social) and had no issues giving 3 away to friends that wanted one (and are smokers). I think I had 4 smokes yesterday, and zero so far today. Not sure when I'll even have another one, though pretty sure I will smoke again.

I get that we are all different, but am still amazed that cessation rates aren't even higher cause cutting way back and even quitting strike me as super duper simple. And I have stories from the heaviest smokers around to back that up.

 

[r77r7r]

J- I think there is a good thread for dual users. Nice supportive group when I popped in...

 

[chopdoc]

If I wanted to respond to something someone specifically said, I would have quoted them.
So really it was more of a general statement, driven by frustration of seeing 5 years worth of threads from people who often don't get it.


New members always come in here thinking "this is what everything is all about, and now I'll tell you so you can all know".
And there are plenty of members that have been around awhile that still don't get it.

And every now and then I take an opportunity (like this thread) to tell them and everyone else how wrong that is.

Thats kinda what I was thinking seeing your close to 20K post I figured you heard it a lot and I had to ask. No disrespect meant, just curious.

 

[amoret]

Just from a statistics perspective it would be hard to come up with an actual rate. In my experience, the people I run into that are avid papers and used to be smokers, are tinkerers, self-reliant and DIYers. The fact that there are forums where people take time to post on makes it hard to come up with a population of failed papers. Someone who couldn't get into it is not going to post.
Vaping is one of those things that is very easily turned into a hobby. This was the case with me, but that was because I am heavy internet user. I say this because at the time I got into vaping there weren't many brick and mortar stores in the area. Without the resources offered in this forum and other internet resources I would be at a loss and would have likely turned back to cigarettes.

This is very important. Especially for something that has not been mainstream, not been doctor recommended. I doubt very much that I could have been successful if I hadn't found ECF while trying to find products. I was able to ask questions and get good answers about what would work well for me before I even started.

Of course I was also "lucky" enough to have health problems that meant that I had specific questions to ask about what would work for me. That is part of why I cringe when I see the "You have to get a mech mod, an RBA, into rebuilding, a high watt device, etc. when people are asking really basic questions that don't involve any need for going advanced right away.

 

[irwink]

I believe:
For those who really wish to stop smoking cessation rate for "cold turkey" method is about 100%.
For those who really wish to stop smoking while vaping cessation rate is about 100%.
For those who hope to stop smoking cessation rate is pretty low with any method.
Actually, as I remember, research shows that overall cessation rate with vaping is rather low (as with any other method), but vaping do help to decrease smoking.

P.S. However, cessation rate is high for ECF members.

These are only, as you said, your own beliefs. As anecdotal evidence there are at least 10 people in my workplace that vape and are tobacco free. Through conversation I have learned that none of them are members or readers of ECF.

 

[chopdoc]

That was kinda one of the points I made.

You're not going to hear that here because this is a VAPING FORUM.

Keep in mind, over the last 30 years, we know millions upon millions of people have quit smoking, using other harm reduction methods, NRT, SNUS because vaping wasn't around.

If they had already quit, using other methods, they wouldn't be here on a vaping forum most likely.


Look, I don't feel the need to lord it over everything else........whatever helps people with dependencies that may harm their health, I'm all for it.

And I don't like saying "it's only about willpower" because that presupposes that some vapers on here are lazy sloths, because they are vaping and still smoking.......and I say that whatever *brain* neurotransmitters, or digestive disorders, or dependencies they have may not be easily overcome......as a matter of fact, they may not be overcome at all. And that is okay. They are seeking and trying.

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

Vaping is great!~

But I am careful not to make statements, that anyone or anything is "The Way and The Light". (Because only budding cult leaders, their followers and extremists think like that. )

All harm reduction, if it works for somebody, is okay with me.

(I was quit for well over 5 years and I did it on Chantix.) Yes, it was uncomfortable. But it worked until my dog had a terrible hiking accident and I bought cigs). Now I have another harm reduction method to fall back on so will most likely stay quit

Thats the curious thing Racehorse. I work my entire adult life in the oil fields of Louisiana and known many who smoked and only a few who quit. My sister quit with I believe chantrix as well as one friend. I known many who used the patch and it didnt work and a few who tried the gum. In the 40 years I smoked I never really tried to quit because i loved it too much but in the last few years I could feel it killing me and was resigned to the awareness that the first heart attack was coming and I wont make it out of my early 60's like my father (smoker) and my grand father (also smoker).
I am 49 and feel I have a new lease on life since I quit 3 months ago. I know I did massive damage to my body with smoking but I also know I have a far better chance now of living longer than either my father or grand father did.

Now your very right in saying everyone is different. No argument from me on this and yes, this is a vaping forum BUT, have you heard of a patch forum or a nico-gum forum? Neither have I. the drug one might have a forum, I donno. Yet the one glaring thing is that many have quit smoking from vaping and estimates that I have seen shows it over a %30 success rate wher other stop smoking cessation devices are not even close. That speaks volumes alone.

With your estimate of millions upon millions of people who quit, how many did it take closing the casket lid for them to quit. Some were able to shake the habit but its well known quiting smoking is harder than quiting some drug that starts with an H. Yet with vaping there is countless testimonies of people who picked up a started kit and 3 to 7 days later never smoked again. That isnt easily brushed aside and no other smoking cessation device out there can do that. My own 40 year 3PAD habit ended exactly that way and I knew I had to quit but didnt really want to. Now I am damn glad I did.

 

[AndriaD]

I get that we are all different, but am still amazed that cessation rates aren't even higher cause cutting way back and even quitting strike me as super duper simple. And I have stories from the heaviest smokers around to back that up.

I don't think that the amount one smokes is necessarily an indicator of one's mental attachment to smoking -- it *can* be, but in my own case, I was smoking a pack -- or less -- a day, mainly because I really couldn't afford to smoke any more than that. But 18-20 yrs ago, I was smoking 3+ pks a day. And while I wasn't smoking a lot of cigarettes in recent memory, I *was* smoking twice as frequently as the number of cigarettes would indicate -- I smoked 120s just so that I could "smoke them twice" -- it saved money. And mental attachment? Those things were a veritable ball and chain, to me, that I had to drag around every minute of the day. When we bought a house in 2011, one of my own personal requirements was a convenient outdoor space, for smoking -- in the house we bought, it's a covered front porch. I was attached AND THEN SOME -- but I was also really tired of being imprisoned by my own addiction.

I think a fair sized group of people make noises about wanting, needing to quit, but don't actually want to; they're brainwashed by the ANTZ into thinking that quitting smoking is somehow required, or their doctor/spouse/kids/boss wants them to, but they really don't have any real interest in it, for themselves; so, they might make an effort, but without that inner commitment, just as soon as they hit hard going, they're back to smoking, blaming the method they used to try and quit -- when in fact it was the lack of internal motivation. That probably applies to me, too, when I tried using the patch. My 3-month quit cold turkey was at my boyfriend's behest, and when suffering a bout a strep throat at the time, smoking was ungodly painful, so I quit -- but during that entire 3 month span, the smell of cigarettes remained very tempting to me, and the sight of anyone smoking made me crave unmercifully -- so no huge surprise that when I hit that 3-mo depression, I went right back to smoking.

And then, as Racehorse points out, there are those who get something else entirely from smoking tobacco -- maybe they have a really stubborn brain chemistry disorder, or intestinal disorder, or other inflammatory disorder, and haven't tried WTA -- maybe don't even know about it. I think my severe colon dysfunction surrounding/after my appendectomy had a GREAT deal to do with those awful cravings, and brief return to smoking, borne out by the return of the cravings after I'd successfully been back to smoke-free for 10 days -- but thankfully, I had some WTA, and it worked -- whether it was the colon problems, or just a really long-term addiction problem, or some combination -- WTA relieved it, so I was able to remain smoke-free. It helped too, that I had already experienced a bit more than 3 mo smoke-free, and had come to really enjoy being a non-smoker during that time, and wanted to keep it, having once again regained it.

Andria

 

[Phoenix07013]

Interestingly enough I ran across this on reddit. In a study with a 51% retention rate, heavy papers showed a higher percentage of cessation.

"Daily use of electronic cigarettes for at least 1 month is strongly associated with quitting smoking at follow up. Further investigation of the underlying reasons for intensive versus intermittent use will help shed light on the mechanisms underlying the associations between e-cigarette use, motivation to quit and smoking cessation."

Original article:

UMass Boston Study: Smokers Who Use E-Cigarettes Regularly More Likely to Quit Tobacco | Virtual-Strategy Magazine

Study link

A Longitudinal Study of Electronic Cigarette Use in a Population-Based Sample of Adult Smokers: Association With Smoking Cessation and Motivation to Quit

In the end I think that those who wish to stop smoking by whatever means they choose is possible. There is a group of us, the self reliant tinkerers and DIYers, who have gone above and beyond to stop smoking by switching focus from a mere cessation method to an enjoyable hobby.

 

[kbf101998]

Yes everyone is different, however in my circle of 'smoker' friends nothing worked until they tried 'vaping' to quit.

I was a pack and a half to two packs a day smoker for 40 years! I truly enjoyed smoking, always felt I met the nicest people at the ash trays . I was a happy smoker until my favorite brand was discontinued. I smoked the same brand of cigs for 35 years, my house never smelled like smoke--I didn't smell like smoke and I enjoyed every minute of it. Then it all changed... I had to switch brands and about the same time BT decided to add more harmful chemicals and make flame ......ant paper. Uggg--the smell gagged me. I couldn't stand to even walk in to my own bedroom. Yes--I smoked in my house--It was MY house, had smoked in my house and my car for all these years and no one in my family complained, until the flame ......ant paper! For the next few years I tried everything -- the patch, Chantix, I was hypnotized - cutting back slowly--nothing worked.

I had purchased my first electronic set up from a mall cart in 2008. I tried them for a day and went back to smoking, it was not a pleasant experience. In January 2013, I purchased the Blu system. They did not taste bad, but the batteries lasted about 10 minutes and I was busy and would just go pick up the cigs and smoke when the battery died. In June 2103, I decided that there had to be something better than that out there and 'Googled' vaping and up came ECF--I lurked and read and decided to visit the ONE B & M in my area.

When I went in to the store, they were not busy, and they were very helpful. I left with a starter kit ( an ego pass through battery and a clearo, I think a TS3) and about 6 flavors of juice, but more than that some good advice. The guy helping me said--"start this and when you really want a cigarette--HAVE ONE! The first week I only smoked 3 cigarettes--the second week none!

I really had no real intention to quit--I wanted to cut back. I was really surprised that it worked! Now 519 days later--I smell better--my house smells better and I feel better. I have no intention to quit vaping. I enjoy it as much as I enjoyed smoking!