The Clone Wars - Tearing the Vaping Community Apart

[67Tele]

"Wheel Go Round" was a saying on another forum. I'm new here but, was a charter member of a particular guitar forum that started 15 years ago. It's almost identical to ECF in layout, moderation, level of helping, knowledge and support. When it first started it had maybe 200 members. It's grown. During that time there have been phases sometimes acrimonious and polarizing, changing with new people coming in but in the end and above all each member treats each other member with respect and...

"Wheel Go Round"

 

[Equilibrium]

To be totally real it's gotten to the point that I am saving up for authentics, as I've been made to feel like not a vaper anymore simply because I have mostly clones. Out in public or at a vape meet people give the dirtiest looks and the most judgemental comments. Honestly when I read the forums I think that half the people out there consider me worse than a neo nazi or clan member simply for having cloned hardware.

Why do you care so much about what other people think?
If someone is close enough to tell my mod is a clone... they're too damn close!
People should mind their own business really.

 

[HgA1C]

Drama is right. I took several hours to provide manufacturing facts in the authentic's suing clones thread, starting on page 145. I believe I received maybe a couple of responses from those espousing upon the merits of authentic's. The thread has remained silent for 19 hours and it was averaging around 80 posts per day. No one really attempted to engage me in dialect upon the facts of American manufacturing. Basically, it appears that there is a subset of vaping that have become elitist and do not understand imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Take a read from page 145 if you want to see what I mean.

Overall, my opinion is that the majority of vapers don't really care about clones. Some may support them, some may not like them, but overall they are accepted/understood by the majority. I also believe most would prefer to buy American if it is an option to their pocketbooks. The problems start when the majority attempt to engage the irrational exuberance displayed by these zealots. Take a read from page 145 if you want to see what I mean.

 

[NathanielFT]

There is no real community thats why. Every 'community' there is from religion, politics, gaming, geographical, etc. splinters off into sub cliques who differ in opinions and fight about it. Those who perpetuate the idea of a community are those who want to defend vaping from legislation, those who want to profit from vaping, those who genuinely want to help others, and those who just want something to belong to


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[snork]

Drama is right. I took several hours to provide manufacturing facts in the authentic's suing clones thread, starting on page 145. I believe I received maybe a couple of responses from those espousing upon the merits of authentic's. The thread has remained silent for 19 hours and it was averaging around 80 posts per day. No one really attempted to engage me in dialect upon the facts of American manufacturing. Basically, it appears that there is a subset of vaping that have become elitist and do not understand imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Take a read from page 145 if you want to see what I mean.

Overall, my opinion is that the majority of vapers don't really care about clones. Some may support them, some may not like them, but overall they are accepted/understood by the majority. I also believe most would prefer to buy American if it is an option to their pocketbooks. The problems start when the majority attempt to engage the irrational exuberance displayed by these zealots. Take a read from page 145 if you want to see what I mean.

I understood and appreciated your posts.

 

[JohnnyBGoode]

Keep in mind that a larger group of vapers isn't even American and couldn't give a rats ... about buying American (at best).
Also a lot of the designs aren't American to begin with.
Next to that, I think Americans now earn more from clones being (re)sold locally than the whole original market in itself is worth.
Add to that all being sold which Asia product to begin with and the originals market is a small niche at best.

 

[HgA1C]

I understood and appreciated your posts.

Thank you. I really am quite sad occasionally, for leaving a field I put way to many hours and passion in. However, there is no money in it, without running a business. The advances in technology over the last 30 years have really marginalized the labor component of manufacturing in high tech facilities. I would have had to branch off as a consultant, sales rep, or kept job hopping up the ladder. I personally just wanted to excel at my level in the industry, but hit a glass ceiling.

I am upset at the fact that some of these "authentic"* makers don't reinvest or start charging realistic prices. There are some that do. I will gladly give my money to them for their American made products.

*Authentic: Vaping was invented in China, we are technically stomping all over their intellectual property. In America they would have had intellectual rights that would have stunted the rapid growth we have seen.

 

[snork]

Thank you. I really am quite sad occasionally, for leaving a field I put way to many hours and passion in. However, there is no money in it, without running a business. The advances in technology over the last 30 years have really marginalized the labor component of manufacturing in high tech facilities. I would have had to branch off as a consultant, sales rep, or kept job hopping up the ladder. I personally just wanted to excel at my level in the industry, but hit a glass ceiling.

I am upset at the fact that some of these "authentic"* makers don't reinvest or start charging realistic prices. There are some that do. I will gladly give my money to them for their American made products.

*Authentic: Vaping was invented in China, we are technically stomping all over their intellectual property. In America they would have had intellectual rights that would have stunted the rapid growth we have seen.

It was just nice to see someone who actually *knows* something describe how comparing Chinese and American manufacturing costs can't be done. The other things, I'll leave for a clone war.

 

[440BB]

Every hobbyist group grows to the point that elitism, outrage and one upsmanship rear their ugly heads. Car lovers argue over which brand is best (correct answer: Mopar) and bass players argue over which bass is best (correct answer: Peavey) Both groups will continue to enjoy the product of their choice for the foreseeable future, so their communities (and debates) remain intact.

For those of us who see vaping primarily as a great way to stop smoking, bickering over clones and clouds is just irrelevant. While a few thousand hobbyists argue about the details, big tobacco and pharma, through the FDA, will keep millions of smokers from getting legal access to good vaping solutions. That is what will tear this community apart.

 

[bluecat]

I don't think it is tearing it apart. You have one side that thinks one way and the other.. the other way. Then, you have the extremists on both sides. Typical human relations. One thread was actually a good conversation.

The only one thinks it is tearing us apart is if you have a strong belief one way or the other. Personally I don't give a crap if you buy authentic or clone. I know what I buy and I still fall asleep on my pillow without worrying whether I have a clone or if you care that I didn't buy an authentic.

 

[bluecat]

Drama is right. I took several hours to provide manufacturing facts in the authentic's suing clones thread, starting on page 145. I believe I received maybe a couple of responses from those espousing upon the merits of authentic's. The thread has remained silent for 19 hours and it was averaging around 80 posts per day. No one really attempted to engage me in dialect upon the facts of American manufacturing. Basically, it appears that there is a subset of vaping that have become elitist and do not understand imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Take a read from page 145 if you want to see what I mean.

Overall, my opinion is that the majority of vapers don't really care about clones. Some may support them, some may not like them, but overall they are accepted/understood by the majority. I also believe most would prefer to buy American if it is an option to their pocketbooks. The problems start when the majority attempt to engage the irrational exuberance displayed by these zealots. Take a read from page 145 if you want to see what I mean.

I read it mate. It was very interesting and appreciated from the manufacturing side. As I was studying in college way back when, the automation phase was at the fore front. I went to many manufacturing/processing companies to learn about their innovation in robotics. Also had a family member in a high ranking position at a major manufacturing company (USA). He soon lost his job because of these improvement, which he himself implemented.

About buying American. We are in a global market. I would say most of us Americans do by American with 80-90% of our purchases. When told I should support Americans buy purchasing a vape device I don't get all giggly inside. I prefer to support myself.. who just happens to be American. SO in a strange way.. I am supporting America just not the way others look at it.

 

[bluecat]

Isn't it sad, though? While the vapers are busy arguing over "intellectual property" of metal tubes , the prohibitionist forces are making great strides towards securing a crippling and definitive victory against our choice to quit smoking and switch to an alternative 100 to 1000 times safer.

The ANTZ are in full blown attack mode, from the highest levels:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/fda-regulations/556080-fda-deeming-regulation-proposals.html
to each and every last village in the nation:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-cigs-under-fire-orwellian-shadowy-cabal.html

In the meantime, out of an estimated 6.24 million vapers in the US, only a few thousand expressed their opposition to FDA's proposed regulations.

If we keep fighting over metal tubes instead of fighting for our right to vape, all of this discussion and all others at the top of this forum will be moot. I urge all vapers to get involved in advocacy and fight back against the ANTZ lies and propaganda. Visit the News forum, comment on articles in the media, write to your congresscritters, state, and local officials, show up and testify at hearings for local ordinances. Don't let them take this life-saving alternative away from us!

Ummm. I do both. I wouldn't call it fighting. I do share my views with both the people here and those politicians that are in my district. I can't influence politicians that are outside my district. If one does not like my views.. feel free to move on from them. I do it all the time.

 

[roosterado]

AOZ Authentic Only Zealots This includes only those who constantly gripe about clones. Most Authentic Owners Just enjoy their Vaping and Let other Vapers enjoy what they want to enjoy in Peace -IMO

 

[Rule62]

"The clone wars are tearing the vaping community apart". So, the solution is to start another 'clone war' thread.
Ok...got it. SMH

 

[Zealous]

To be totally real it's gotten to the point that I am saving up for authentics, as I've been made to feel like not a vaper anymore simply because I have mostly clones. Out in public or at a vape meet people give the dirtiest looks and the most judgemental comments. Honestly when I read the forums I think that half the people out there consider me worse than a neo nazi or clan member simply for having cloned hardware.

This is weird. Not saying this isn't happening to you but I can't imagine seeing it IRL. I pretty much never care what someone is vaping on. I'm more happy to just see vapers when I see them. And, except for in the vape shop, it's been my experience that people don't really care what I'm vaping either. The fact that I even know what someone else is using has caused me to be called a vape nerd (lol) so apparently in my neck of the woods it's not too important.

 

[JohnnyBGoode]

This is weird. Not saying this isn't happening to you but I can't imagine seeing it IRL. I pretty much never care what someone is vaping on. I'm more happy to just see vapers when I see them. And, except for in the vape shop, it's been my experience that people don't really care what I'm vaping either. The fact that I even know what someone else is using has caused me to be called a vape nerd (lol) so apparently in my neck of the woods it's not too important.

Same here... Maybe because vaping is not such a big 'thing' here. I get more of the 'are you smoking???' stare than anything else.
I enjoy seeing fellow vapers in the wild still. We are still a minority at best here. Most of those I do spot, walk around with some ego device.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator

 

[Scy123]

Clones are whats keeping the community going! No ones gonna pay $250 for a mod and $150 for an rba. If it was authentics only their would be much less of a community.

 

[FattyJ]

This argument will be moot if the FDA has their ways about regulation. If anything will tear this community apart it will be the FDA and BT - BP not clones.

 

[skoony]

like any new emerging market there will be growing pains.
as the market grows and vendors gain more business acumen the market will mature
along more traditional models.
as this happens vendors are going to do more to protect their product lines,ramp up production and
be more competitive in general.
this will allow lower pricing and availability. consumer knowledge will grow. the sale of 1.1 clone copies will
fall. as the price of authentic's drop so must the knock offs until their profit margins are so low the quality
will be appalling enough for us consumers to take notice.
don't get me wrong there will still be knock offs but,only of the higher end mods where profit can be maximized.
1 to 3 years down the road the sales forum will have a sub forum-is this fake? you already see these type posts
on the regular forums. in the end we the consumers and the market will iron all this out.

i personally don't like when our discussions turn into personality conflicts. along with good debating skills
one must also develop good people skills. the person on the other computer is not your sworn enemy.
a little common courtesy and good facts will do. notice i said common courtesy not respect.
respect is earned.common courtesy is how we all get along without really knowing each other.
that's what makes a good community.

regards
mike