Well I have been trying to get some life insurance due to the fact that I have a son and am type one diabetic and I was told by many agents that if I quit smoking for a year the rate would be cut in half. Most of the time they said I wouldn't even beable to get life insurance. Now I do not have any besides the low amount offered by my work. Anyone know if I use the Ecig would I still have to pay the higher rate as I am not technically a "tobacco" user anymore. Its only been 3 months with no tobacco so far but wondering once I get to that 12 months what can I do if anything...??
The E-Cig and Life insurance rates??? Anyone have experience???
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I think it varies state to state (government stupidity at its finest) but in my state they ask "In the previous 10 years".
If it were me I wouldnt tell them that you use an e-cig. Most insurance companies do not consider the e-cig as a "quit smoking product" like the do the patch or other such items. just make sure when the time comes to have some 0 nicotine juice and vape that for the amount of time it takes nicotine to get out of your body (I forgot the answer to that question and Im still half asleep lol)
Honestly I plan to be Nicotine free in less than 6 months. My outlook on it is I am doing this to get rid of the addictive chemicals. I may still vape once I am on 0mg but that doesn't mean it has to be an addiction
Just in case none of that makes since...I am still half asleep lol.
Honestly I plan to be Nicotine free in less than 6 months. My outlook on it is I am doing this to get rid of the addictive chemicals. I may still vape once I am on 0mg but that doesn't mean it has to be an addiction
Just in case none of that makes since...I am still half asleep lol.
My work insurance tests for nicotine as criteria for a smoker. So, regardless of how you get your nicotine your considered a tobacco user and pay the higher rate.
Many insurance companies ask if you are a nicotine user, then there is a write in area for further explanation. I put "NRT" as my nicotine use. That's nicotine replacement therapy. What gets me is they ask you how many times a day you use nicotine. Do I put a hundred? 2 puffs here, 2 puffs there. I put 10.
You need to be off of nic for several months before you chemical levels will drop far enough not to be detected by the blood draw.
You need to be off of nic for several months before you chemical levels will drop far enough not to be detected by the blood draw.
My husband is an underwriter for life insurance. You get physical exam when going for life insurance, and give a blood and urine test. If you have nicotine in your system you are charged nicotine rates. It doesn't matter if you smoke cigarettes, use the patch, gum or e-cig. Most of the insurance companies are no longer calling it a "smoker" rate....It is now a nicotine rate. If you put that you are a non smoker on the application you better explain where you are getting your nicotine from because they will find it in your blood test. And underwriters will think you are lying...and they hate when people lie. Trust me....I live with one. LOL
I work for an independent insurance broker and everything that msilvia above said is true....a few years ago we had a client apply for life ins and claimed she was a non smoker on her app and that she had quit smoking 1 year before she applied for insurance. After her medical exam we got a call stating they found nicotine in her lab results. When we contacted the applicant she said that she quit smoking using nic gum and she still uses it multiple times daily unfortunately, she was denied coverage as a non smoker until she gave up the gum for at least a year. Some companies have changed their application to include ecigs in the "Do you smoke" question. Some companies may allowed ecig users to apply for a non smoker rate, but none of the carriers we use do. You could always look into a company that offers a simplified issue (less medical questions) and sometimes no medical exam required but the monthly/yearly rates for such policies are very, very expensive.
@ mighty26 - I am a Life Insurance agent, so I think I can help you. First, understand that you will have a blood test that looks for cotinine in your blood, the by-product of nicotine. If it's there, you will be charged smoker rates. Second, realize that vaping and smoking are two different things. Cigarettes, cigars, chewing tobacco, etc., all have carcinogens, thus the higher rates. Vaping does not have carcinogens. However, Insurance companies have not yet made this distinction. So what to do?
Apply as a non-smoker. Then, find out your lab date. 5 to 7 days before your lab date, stop any and all nicotine products, including vaping any nicotine liquids (I suggest you get some 0 nicotine liquid for those few days.) When they draw blood, there will be no nicotine / cotinine in your system, and you will come out clean. You will be charged non-smoker rates. Here is some more info on doing that:
How Long is Smoking Cigarettes Detectable on an Exam? | eHow
Is this fraud? No. You are no longer a smoker at the time of your application, so no fraud is present.
In addition, every life insurance policy has a 2-year contestability feature. This means that the Insurance Company has 2 years from the date you sign your application to contest any of the statements / answers in your application. After this period expires, the policy can no longer be contested (i.e., if you die, they MUST pay the benefit), except in cases of gross fraud. And as I said before, this is not fraud. And it especially is not gross fraud.
Maybe the husband of @msilvia would disagree with this approach, but the underwriting department does not make payout decisions upon death, legal does. And for them to prove gross fraud in the use of vaping for an answer to a nicotine use question would subject them to a lengthy trial where they would have to justify charging the same rates for non-carcinogenic nicotine use versus carinogenic nicotine use, which they would be unable to do. At some point, insurance companies may have to recognize non-carcinogenic nicotine use and make rate adjustments accordingly for the slight increase in health risks due to nicotine use in itself. But then they'd arguably also have to start making adjustments for caffeine use, etc. Not going to happen. So until Insurance companies make those adjustments, which I don't think they ever will, there is no fraud and they will make the payout. Period.
So vape away, apply as a non-smoker, and beat the cotinine test as described above.
BTW, if you live in California I'd be happy to sell you a policy. PEACE!
Apply as a non-smoker. Then, find out your lab date. 5 to 7 days before your lab date, stop any and all nicotine products, including vaping any nicotine liquids (I suggest you get some 0 nicotine liquid for those few days.) When they draw blood, there will be no nicotine / cotinine in your system, and you will come out clean. You will be charged non-smoker rates. Here is some more info on doing that:
How Long is Smoking Cigarettes Detectable on an Exam? | eHow
Is this fraud? No. You are no longer a smoker at the time of your application, so no fraud is present.
In addition, every life insurance policy has a 2-year contestability feature. This means that the Insurance Company has 2 years from the date you sign your application to contest any of the statements / answers in your application. After this period expires, the policy can no longer be contested (i.e., if you die, they MUST pay the benefit), except in cases of gross fraud. And as I said before, this is not fraud. And it especially is not gross fraud.
Maybe the husband of @msilvia would disagree with this approach, but the underwriting department does not make payout decisions upon death, legal does. And for them to prove gross fraud in the use of vaping for an answer to a nicotine use question would subject them to a lengthy trial where they would have to justify charging the same rates for non-carcinogenic nicotine use versus carinogenic nicotine use, which they would be unable to do. At some point, insurance companies may have to recognize non-carcinogenic nicotine use and make rate adjustments accordingly for the slight increase in health risks due to nicotine use in itself. But then they'd arguably also have to start making adjustments for caffeine use, etc. Not going to happen. So until Insurance companies make those adjustments, which I don't think they ever will, there is no fraud and they will make the payout. Period.
So vape away, apply as a non-smoker, and beat the cotinine test as described above.
BTW, if you live in California I'd be happy to sell you a policy.
PEACE!@ JAY12 do you think 0 mg nic could contain small amounts that could be detectable cause I know they say it may have traces of nicotine... They say that if you fail the test and test positive that would be on my "record" for 7 years? Sorry I am from Wisconsin :-(
I have heard Prudential Life Insurance will lower your rates if you are honest and just tell them you have been using e-cigarettes rather than smoking for the past year. Prudential is apparently the only Insurance Company that offers an e-cigarette discount from what I hear. If your going to quit nicotine for 7 days you might as well quit nicotine for good, no? I mean the worst of physical withdrawal is day 3 or 4.
I have a life insurance policy through my job which asks if you are a tobacco user, but they never test anyone. I always wondered how they would tell if you lied (not that I did)... test your corpse?
@mighty26 - depending on who you get the 0 nicotine liquid from, and their Quality Control, there might be some nicotine in there. But a bigger concern is to make sure you use a NEW tank / carto / atty for the 0 nicotine liquid, so there is no left over nicotine that may get in your bloodstream. A better choice, if you are concerned, would be to either (a) just stop vaping 5 days before the test, or (b) buy some PG fluid at Walmart and vape that on those days. I dunno much about which PG to buy, but lots of folks on this board can steer you in the right direction. Also, you should opt to have the lab work done at a lab rather than your home, just in case you have anything laying around that might tip them off, or a scent that could make the nurse enter notes with her suspicions of you being a smoker or vaper.
@Plumes.91 - I'm not familiar with the Prudential policy you are referencing, but I highly doubt the rates for a vaper would be LESS than that for a non-vaper. And worse yet, all the information on a Life Insurance application is uploaded to a main database called the M.I.B. (Medical Information Bureau), which every underwriter at every Insurance company checks for every new Life Insurance application. So if you tell Prudential you vape, and then decide not to buy their policy (maybe they "rate" you and thus increase your initially quoted monthly premiums because of other health problems, such as slightly elevated blood pressure, glucose levels, etc.), now you have to go somewhere else and admit you use nicotine, or else you WILL be lying on your application, which usually results in an automatic denial. Even if you are not auto-denied, your rates will be adjusted to that of a smoker. Not a good idea. Usually, policies like these (and no medical check policies) are basically a bait and switch technique. Tell us the truth now, then when we approve the policy we'll adjust those teaser rates we showed you beforehand with adjusted rates for all your medical history woes. And sorry, if you go anywhere else, they'll all know about what you disclosed in your application so you're not gonna get a better rate there, either. Just a bad idea overall. Stay away from those.
@Finn the Human - I'm not telling folks to commit fraud, here. I could lose my license for that. BTW, my real name is {Insert name of another agent I dislike, just in case.} (LOL) What I'm trying to do is tell people that vaping and smoking are two different things, and since that is not differentiated by Life Insurance companies, you can prevent it from being an issue by following the steps I have outlined. But I digress - you asked how they can tell if you lied? If you die from Lung Cancer, as an example, or even a stroke or heart disease, Insurance Companies can request what's known as an "APS", short for "Attending Physician Statement", from both the hospital where you were treated as well as your Primary Physician (they can also ask for an APS at the time of your application, see below for more details.) If there are any notes in the files that you smoked at or near the time you submitted your application, or that your continued smoking was the cause of death, they can refuse payment of the death benefit and simply pay your beneficiary a return of the premiums paid into the policy. They do this more often than you might think.
To break it down, here is fraud versus non-fraud:
Fraud (examples, there are many more instances of fraud, but here's a few just to give you an idea)
- You had a melanoma removed and failed to report it on your application
- You were treated for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes or pre-diabetes, or kidney/thyroid problems and do not report it on your application
- You had a surgery and fail to report it on your application
- You had a disease (even though now you're cured) and fail to report it
Not Fraud
- You had an illness that has no relation to increased health risk and fail to report it on your application (i.e., cold, flu, virus, acne, a one-time rash)
- You forget to list each and every physical, doctors appointment, etc. that you have ever been to in the last ten years. Honestly, most people don't keep those records, and the Insurance Company is aware of that. But keep in mind if it was for a serious condition (i.e., getting treatment for high cholesterol), you need to list that, or it could be considered fraud if you don't.
- You quit smoking 7 months ago, and you answer "No" to the question that asks, "Have you used cigarettes / nicotine containing products in the last 12 months?" Why is this not fraud? Because many people forget exact dates, so it's hard for the Insurance Company to prove you intentionally committed fraud by your answer to this question.
As an agent, my job is to help my clients find an affordable life insurance policy that will protect their loved ones, while also protecting the interests in the companies I sell through by ensuring my clients are as honest as possible on their applications. But morally, I always feel like the company has the upper hand and I would like to see my clients beneficiaries get their payment without any problems upon the death of their loved ones. Insurance companies are not in the people business, they're in the money making business, and they will do everything possible to protect their profit structure. As such, they are aware that a percentage of the population lies on their applications, and have thus adjusted their base rates to compensate for that percentage.
Here are some things I tell all my clients:
- I recommend my clients ALWAYS get a copy of their MIB report before filling out a Life Application, especially if they have completed another application or been treated in a hospital within the last 7 years. You can get a copy of your report for FREE at the following link:
MIB.com - Request Your MIB Consumer File
After you get your report, make sure to put all items on the report on your life application, or you will be considered as withholding relevant information that they will see once they get their report. If anything is WRONG on the report, you can contact MIB and they will tell you how you can dispute it.
- Applications for policies of a high dollar amount (ie., $1 million plus) are more likely to have the underwriter ask for an A.P.S. at the time of the application. Lesser amounts (i.e. $500K or below) usually rely on the application itself and the MIB report. And remember, the A.P.S. from your Primary Physician is basically a copy of ALL his/her notes on you from all of your visits to that doctor. Anything in that file CAN AND WILL be used against you. Believe that!
- Applications for policies with death benefit amounts out of proportion to income or future estate tax needs will likely also result in an A.P.S. and/or an outright denial. For example, if you request a $5 million policy, but you only make $25K a year, and you are currently 50 years old, underwriting tables will say that your remaining lifetime earnings are about $500K (I'm estimated, it may be more or less), so the $5 million policy is not justified. The principal for insurance is to make the beneficiary whole, not richer than they would be if their loved one had lived. So keep your death benefit in a close relation to your income and estate tax needs.
- Applications for low death benefits (i.e., $200K and below) are rarely challenged upon death, even if fraud is suspected. The cost involved on disputing these lower benefit policies is too high, so they usually just payout.
- I also recommend my clients make their spouse the owner of the policy rather than themselves. So you would make John Smith the "Insured" and "Mrs. Smith" the "Owner" of the policy. Why? Stuff happens. For example, John is the "Insured" and the "Owner" of his policy. A few years later, he and his wife are fighting. She kicks him out. He's ......, so he calls the Life Company and cancels the policy. They reconcile a few weeks later, and now he wants to get the policy back. Too late, sucka! You cancelled, now you must re-apply, with rates reflecting your current age and all the medical problems you incurred since your initial application. There will be a BIG difference in rates. So make your wife the owner, and on her policy make the husband the owner. When you kick out the hubby (or the wife), they can't cancel a policy that YOU own. And don't you, either. That would just be foolish. Along these lines, remember also to NEVER buy a joint policy listing both the husband and wife as insureds, since there can only be one owner. Get separate policies.
- If an insurance company plays the "Fraud" game at the time of your death, get a lawyer. Here's how the game goes: "Mrs. Smith, we found out your husband lied on his application and that he was a smoker. As such, we don't have to pay you the $500K death benefit since he committed fraud. By law, all we are entitled to do is return the premiums you paid into the policy. But since we are such nice guys, we are going to offer you $50,000 if you sign here today. If you don't sign now, our offer is off the table." What a bunch of B.S. They know if you get a lawyer, they will have to prove the fraud, and not only that, but prove that that fraud directly resulted in the cause of death. Do not be fooled. Get a lawyer and get all your cash (less attorney fees, usually 25% - 33% of the settlement amount, but those fees sometimes also have to be paid by the Insurance company if it is shown that they tried to pull the wool over your eyes.)
I could go on and on, but I think I have already bored most of you by now. This is a vaping forum, not an Insurance forum. So vape on my friends!
@Plumes.91 - I'm not familiar with the Prudential policy you are referencing, but I highly doubt the rates for a vaper would be LESS than that for a non-vaper. And worse yet, all the information on a Life Insurance application is uploaded to a main database called the M.I.B. (Medical Information Bureau), which every underwriter at every Insurance company checks for every new Life Insurance application. So if you tell Prudential you vape, and then decide not to buy their policy (maybe they "rate" you and thus increase your initially quoted monthly premiums because of other health problems, such as slightly elevated blood pressure, glucose levels, etc.), now you have to go somewhere else and admit you use nicotine, or else you WILL be lying on your application, which usually results in an automatic denial. Even if you are not auto-denied, your rates will be adjusted to that of a smoker. Not a good idea. Usually, policies like these (and no medical check policies) are basically a bait and switch technique. Tell us the truth now, then when we approve the policy we'll adjust those teaser rates we showed you beforehand with adjusted rates for all your medical history woes. And sorry, if you go anywhere else, they'll all know about what you disclosed in your application so you're not gonna get a better rate there, either. Just a bad idea overall. Stay away from those.
@Finn the Human - I'm not telling folks to commit fraud, here. I could lose my license for that. BTW, my real name is {Insert name of another agent I dislike, just in case.} (LOL) What I'm trying to do is tell people that vaping and smoking are two different things, and since that is not differentiated by Life Insurance companies, you can prevent it from being an issue by following the steps I have outlined. But I digress - you asked how they can tell if you lied? If you die from Lung Cancer, as an example, or even a stroke or heart disease, Insurance Companies can request what's known as an "APS", short for "Attending Physician Statement", from both the hospital where you were treated as well as your Primary Physician (they can also ask for an APS at the time of your application, see below for more details.) If there are any notes in the files that you smoked at or near the time you submitted your application, or that your continued smoking was the cause of death, they can refuse payment of the death benefit and simply pay your beneficiary a return of the premiums paid into the policy. They do this more often than you might think.
To break it down, here is fraud versus non-fraud:
Fraud (examples, there are many more instances of fraud, but here's a few just to give you an idea)
- You had a melanoma removed and failed to report it on your application
- You were treated for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes or pre-diabetes, or kidney/thyroid problems and do not report it on your application
- You had a surgery and fail to report it on your application
- You had a disease (even though now you're cured) and fail to report it
Not Fraud
- You had an illness that has no relation to increased health risk and fail to report it on your application (i.e., cold, flu, virus, acne, a one-time rash)
- You forget to list each and every physical, doctors appointment, etc. that you have ever been to in the last ten years. Honestly, most people don't keep those records, and the Insurance Company is aware of that. But keep in mind if it was for a serious condition (i.e., getting treatment for high cholesterol), you need to list that, or it could be considered fraud if you don't.
- You quit smoking 7 months ago, and you answer "No" to the question that asks, "Have you used cigarettes / nicotine containing products in the last 12 months?" Why is this not fraud? Because many people forget exact dates, so it's hard for the Insurance Company to prove you intentionally committed fraud by your answer to this question.
As an agent, my job is to help my clients find an affordable life insurance policy that will protect their loved ones, while also protecting the interests in the companies I sell through by ensuring my clients are as honest as possible on their applications. But morally, I always feel like the company has the upper hand and I would like to see my clients beneficiaries get their payment without any problems upon the death of their loved ones. Insurance companies are not in the people business, they're in the money making business, and they will do everything possible to protect their profit structure. As such, they are aware that a percentage of the population lies on their applications, and have thus adjusted their base rates to compensate for that percentage.
Here are some things I tell all my clients:
- I recommend my clients ALWAYS get a copy of their MIB report before filling out a Life Application, especially if they have completed another application or been treated in a hospital within the last 7 years. You can get a copy of your report for FREE at the following link:
MIB.com - Request Your MIB Consumer File
After you get your report, make sure to put all items on the report on your life application, or you will be considered as withholding relevant information that they will see once they get their report. If anything is WRONG on the report, you can contact MIB and they will tell you how you can dispute it.
- Applications for policies of a high dollar amount (ie., $1 million plus) are more likely to have the underwriter ask for an A.P.S. at the time of the application. Lesser amounts (i.e. $500K or below) usually rely on the application itself and the MIB report. And remember, the A.P.S. from your Primary Physician is basically a copy of ALL his/her notes on you from all of your visits to that doctor. Anything in that file CAN AND WILL be used against you. Believe that!
- Applications for policies with death benefit amounts out of proportion to income or future estate tax needs will likely also result in an A.P.S. and/or an outright denial. For example, if you request a $5 million policy, but you only make $25K a year, and you are currently 50 years old, underwriting tables will say that your remaining lifetime earnings are about $500K (I'm estimated, it may be more or less), so the $5 million policy is not justified. The principal for insurance is to make the beneficiary whole, not richer than they would be if their loved one had lived. So keep your death benefit in a close relation to your income and estate tax needs.
- Applications for low death benefits (i.e., $200K and below) are rarely challenged upon death, even if fraud is suspected. The cost involved on disputing these lower benefit policies is too high, so they usually just payout.
- I also recommend my clients make their spouse the owner of the policy rather than themselves. So you would make John Smith the "Insured" and "Mrs. Smith" the "Owner" of the policy. Why? Stuff happens. For example, John is the "Insured" and the "Owner" of his policy. A few years later, he and his wife are fighting. She kicks him out. He's ......, so he calls the Life Company and cancels the policy. They reconcile a few weeks later, and now he wants to get the policy back. Too late, sucka! You cancelled, now you must re-apply, with rates reflecting your current age and all the medical problems you incurred since your initial application. There will be a BIG difference in rates. So make your wife the owner, and on her policy make the husband the owner. When you kick out the hubby (or the wife), they can't cancel a policy that YOU own. And don't you, either. That would just be foolish. Along these lines, remember also to NEVER buy a joint policy listing both the husband and wife as insureds, since there can only be one owner. Get separate policies.
- If an insurance company plays the "Fraud" game at the time of your death, get a lawyer. Here's how the game goes: "Mrs. Smith, we found out your husband lied on his application and that he was a smoker. As such, we don't have to pay you the $500K death benefit since he committed fraud. By law, all we are entitled to do is return the premiums you paid into the policy. But since we are such nice guys, we are going to offer you $50,000 if you sign here today. If you don't sign now, our offer is off the table." What a bunch of B.S. They know if you get a lawyer, they will have to prove the fraud, and not only that, but prove that that fraud directly resulted in the cause of death. Do not be fooled. Get a lawyer and get all your cash (less attorney fees, usually 25% - 33% of the settlement amount, but those fees sometimes also have to be paid by the Insurance company if it is shown that they tried to pull the wool over your eyes.)
I could go on and on, but I think I have already bored most of you by now. This is a vaping forum, not an Insurance forum. So vape on my friends!
In response to jay12.....my husband and I have had many discussions about this and he has told me that the reason insurance companies charge nicotine rates for use of e-cigs is because there is no difinitive way to prove that someone is actually using an e-cig and not actual cigarettes/tabacco products. If the nicotine shows up in the blood/urine the applicant will be charged nicotine rates because they only have the word of the applicant, and its the people that lie that ruin it for the rest of us.
Funny you should mention stopping the nicotine before the test, I told my husband that I was going to suggest the same thing. He chuckled and said that he can't suggest that being an underwriter but that would be the only way around it at this point.
He agrees that vaping is not smoking...and that vaping is healthier...but he has a job to do and has to follow his company's policies. He hopes that someday there will be a test that can tell the difference between nicotine from vaping and nicotine from smoking.
Funny you should mention stopping the nicotine before the test, I told my husband that I was going to suggest the same thing. He chuckled and said that he can't suggest that being an underwriter but that would be the only way around it at this point.
He agrees that vaping is not smoking...and that vaping is healthier...but he has a job to do and has to follow his company's policies. He hopes that someday there will be a test that can tell the difference between nicotine from vaping and nicotine from smoking.
As for myself I would not knowing lie about anything it always comes back to haunt me that being said!
First question I would ask myself I'm I a smoker then I'm I going to be tested for smoking cigs which I don't.
Or I'm being tested for useing nicotine.
If I was only being tested to see if I smoke which I don't, I would ask a friend of mine what he gets over the counter and takes the day the insurance company makes him take a test to see if he smokes. He has done this a few times.
He has over a million dollar policy on himself.
Sorry I don't know the stuff he takes but I'm sure if you ask around you might find out.
First question I would ask myself I'm I a smoker then I'm I going to be tested for smoking cigs which I don't.
Or I'm being tested for useing nicotine.
If I was only being tested to see if I smoke which I don't, I would ask a friend of mine what he gets over the counter and takes the day the insurance company makes him take a test to see if he smokes. He has done this a few times.
He has over a million dollar policy on himself.
Sorry I don't know the stuff he takes but I'm sure if you ask around you might find out.
Lol, well, do a mouth swab?- how many smoker's have a mouth full of Vegetable Glycerin?
Seriously tho, there's 4000 chemicals in a cig to choose from. Just maybe pick any other than nic?
I can tell you this...I would not do it...you may end up paying out all that $$ for nothing. My husband used to be an Insurance Agent...he wrote a policy for a Man that claimed he was a "Non Smoker" the claim went through...a long while later that same man had a Car accident...they ended up doing an Autopsy on him...guess what?? Came back with Nicotine in his blood and the insurance Company refused to pay his Family any $$ because of it. My husband tried and tried to get that family their $$ and his company refused it..they family got a Lawyer and still they lost. So for a long time, all that $$ paid into the Policy, was for nothing. Save yourself and your family the heartache..if you plan to continue with Vaping that has Nicotine in it..just pay the higher rates and be done with it. It's your family who will end up suffering in the end...all because you wanted to save a few bucks a month.
I am an Insurance Agent and have been for over 22 years. To those who write nonsense posts that autopsies are done for car accidents and the Insurance Company refused to payout because there was nicotine in the blood, that's just utter bull. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just saying that your not presenting all the facts here.
First, "they" would not perform an "Autopsy" unless there was reason to believe that a medical condition was the cause of the accident. "They," in this case, would be the police or local authorities. If an autopsy WAS performed, it was likely that "they" suspected the driver was intoxicated or that a medical condition (such as a heart attack) was the cause of the accident. Yes, the Insurance Company can refuse to payout for any reason, as they hate to payout. But once you hire a decent lawyer, the burden of proof is on the Insurance Company to prove that (1) You lied at the time of your application, (2) The lie was intentional, and (3) that the lie led to or significantly contributed to the cause of death. I highly doubt those 3 conditions were all met in this case.
What is more likely is that the driver was drunk and caused the accident leading to his death as well as the injury/death of others. In every Insurance policy, there is a clause that says that if you die while committing a felony (or during war), they will not pay. So you can't buy an Insurance policy today, rob a bank tomorrow and expect your beneficiary to get paid if the police shoot and kill you during your escape. Nor can you get behind the wheel of a car, drive intoxicated, crash your car and expect your beneficiaries to get paid. This is what most likely happened here.
But lets (for arguments sake) say all the conditions were met - the only thing I can think of is that this particular client caused the accident which caused the authorities to request an autopsy to see if a medical condition had led to the accident. The autopsy then revealed that the cause of death was a heart attack while driving. He was a heavy smoker and had told his doctor this several times throughout the years, including near the time when he completed his application. The doctor made notes accordingly, and the Insurance company found this out when they requested an APS from the doctor after the death. The autopsy showed the heart attack was from heart disease caused by smoking. So yes, it is possible.
However, I must state this is a highly unlikely set of events, and I would guess the Insurance Company is one of those cheapo "beat all rates" types that some folks prefer to go to AND that the policy had a high value AND that the lawyer was highly incompetent AND that the Insurance Company couldn't care less about your husband's future business (Insurance companies do weigh in the success of their agents, you know, and how much they can piss them off before the agent takes their business elsewhere.) So there are a lot of variables to consider here.
But realize for this to happen, the man was a tobacco smoker. Not a vaper. To my knowledge, there is no documented evidence that vaping leads to heart disease, lung cancer, etc. So you are not "lying" on you application. You are simply answering the question that "NO", you do not use a nicotine containing product that is known to lead to serious medical conditions, which is the intent of their question. And in the car accident case above, the Insurance Company would not be able to prove that (1) the man smoked cigarettes during the time of his application (who would tell their doctor they smoke cigarettes when they are not, since they are vaping instead?) and (2) that vaping led to the heart disease, which led to the heart attack, because there is no documented evidence that vaping leads to heart disease. So had your husbands client been a vaper instead of a cigarette smoker, his beneficiaries would have been paid the full death benefit.
Finally, your comment "all because you wanted to save a few bucks a month" makes me wonder if your husband really ever was an Insurance Agent. Here are some sample rates:
Male, Age 40, $500K 30 year term policy, excellent health, through American General Life
Smoker - $58 month / $639 year
Non-smoker - $260 month / $2,889 year
I suspect you have your life insurance through a group plan with your employer, because clearly you have no idea of the difference in rates for smokers vs. non-smokers. Good luck with that. When you lose your job someday, or retire, say goodbye to that cheap Life Policy and say hello to an agent who will be more than happy to sell you a 10 year term policy with rates of $400 per month, if you can afford it, or even qualify with all the medical problems you will have by then.
Smart people, like @mighty26, buy an individual Life Insurance policy when they are still young and working and can afford the premiums to protect their families for the rest of their lives. Other people, well, write nonsense posts about what they think they know.
First, "they" would not perform an "Autopsy" unless there was reason to believe that a medical condition was the cause of the accident. "They," in this case, would be the police or local authorities. If an autopsy WAS performed, it was likely that "they" suspected the driver was intoxicated or that a medical condition (such as a heart attack) was the cause of the accident. Yes, the Insurance Company can refuse to payout for any reason, as they hate to payout. But once you hire a decent lawyer, the burden of proof is on the Insurance Company to prove that (1) You lied at the time of your application, (2) The lie was intentional, and (3) that the lie led to or significantly contributed to the cause of death. I highly doubt those 3 conditions were all met in this case.
What is more likely is that the driver was drunk and caused the accident leading to his death as well as the injury/death of others. In every Insurance policy, there is a clause that says that if you die while committing a felony (or during war), they will not pay. So you can't buy an Insurance policy today, rob a bank tomorrow and expect your beneficiary to get paid if the police shoot and kill you during your escape. Nor can you get behind the wheel of a car, drive intoxicated, crash your car and expect your beneficiaries to get paid. This is what most likely happened here.
But lets (for arguments sake) say all the conditions were met - the only thing I can think of is that this particular client caused the accident which caused the authorities to request an autopsy to see if a medical condition had led to the accident. The autopsy then revealed that the cause of death was a heart attack while driving. He was a heavy smoker and had told his doctor this several times throughout the years, including near the time when he completed his application. The doctor made notes accordingly, and the Insurance company found this out when they requested an APS from the doctor after the death. The autopsy showed the heart attack was from heart disease caused by smoking. So yes, it is possible.
However, I must state this is a highly unlikely set of events, and I would guess the Insurance Company is one of those cheapo "beat all rates" types that some folks prefer to go to AND that the policy had a high value AND that the lawyer was highly incompetent AND that the Insurance Company couldn't care less about your husband's future business (Insurance companies do weigh in the success of their agents, you know, and how much they can piss them off before the agent takes their business elsewhere.) So there are a lot of variables to consider here.
But realize for this to happen, the man was a tobacco smoker. Not a vaper. To my knowledge, there is no documented evidence that vaping leads to heart disease, lung cancer, etc. So you are not "lying" on you application. You are simply answering the question that "NO", you do not use a nicotine containing product that is known to lead to serious medical conditions, which is the intent of their question. And in the car accident case above, the Insurance Company would not be able to prove that (1) the man smoked cigarettes during the time of his application (who would tell their doctor they smoke cigarettes when they are not, since they are vaping instead?) and (2) that vaping led to the heart disease, which led to the heart attack, because there is no documented evidence that vaping leads to heart disease. So had your husbands client been a vaper instead of a cigarette smoker, his beneficiaries would have been paid the full death benefit.
Finally, your comment "all because you wanted to save a few bucks a month" makes me wonder if your husband really ever was an Insurance Agent. Here are some sample rates:
Male, Age 40, $500K 30 year term policy, excellent health, through American General Life
Smoker - $58 month / $639 year
Non-smoker - $260 month / $2,889 year
I suspect you have your life insurance through a group plan with your employer, because clearly you have no idea of the difference in rates for smokers vs. non-smokers. Good luck with that. When you lose your job someday, or retire, say goodbye to that cheap Life Policy and say hello to an agent who will be more than happy to sell you a 10 year term policy with rates of $400 per month, if you can afford it, or even qualify with all the medical problems you will have by then.
Smart people, like @mighty26, buy an individual Life Insurance policy when they are still young and working and can afford the premiums to protect their families for the rest of their lives. Other people, well, write nonsense posts about what they think they know.
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They can not legally discriminate if you were to say that you are using nicotine lozenges, the patch, or the gum. If they were to try, they would have a class-action lawsuit on their hands. I would say that you have given up all tobacco products (since an e-cig is still considered a tobacco product), and that you use the gum.
Have a pack of gum on standby in case you need to "prove" it. That's how I dance around the nicotine in my bloodstream.
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