The Echo Thread
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I got my echo kit on the 7th, so one week ago today. Been using my special blend in one cart (roughly 80/20 or less VG) and dk black clove in the other (100% PG). Noticed the bad taste on the 12th or 13th, mostly in the first cart but getting noticeable on the second by the 13th.
I checked your link and USA Mix, regardles of the actual manufacturer, is considered a sweet juice. Can't speak for Clove, maybe someone else can help.
TxTumbleWeed has only posted one observation about the Echo he was not more thrilled with over the GO-GO and that was the useful length between cleanings. He will correct me if I am wrong but I believe he and others have said a week or so between cleanings.
In spite of its better flavor than others for many, that is one small area the Echo is behind on as compared to the Igo and GO-GO cartos based on user reports/feedback.
I figured why not take the cartridge apart and see what's going on in there. It's no surprise that I found more burnt stuff. I updated my previous post with the pictures.
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I wonder if using Hangsen's juice is the answer. I've never tried it. Is there anyone who has who can report their findings. I would, but I'd have to import it from the States. It might be a bit of a mission to find it as most of it is rebranded by the retailers. I know Liberty Flights sells it rebranded as their standard juice and Mtn Vapor has it too. It just amazes me that Hangsen can make claims of over 100 refills when some users are only getting a few refills.
I found the draw stiffening up a bit after rotating 3 cartos for about 12 days. So much so, that I was hitting the 5 second cut off every drag (which never used to happen). I thought my cartos were on the their way out but it was just the tiny airholes on the battery thread that were a little clogged up. Cleaned them with a needle and the draws definately improved.
Here's my thoughts on the nasty taste of the echo cartos and some other issues they have. I have been using two echo-e cartos for a little over a week now. I'm using them in conjunction with a Riva 1100 and a KGO 1100. So far so good with both of them and I'm not ready to post a detailed review of them but I do have some theories on why some are getting a burnt taste right out of the box and some are getting a burnt taste within a couple days of usage. It all has to do with the placement of the filler in the carto, IMO. After the fact we discovered there was a batch of gogo cartos that just didn't work properly in relation to the first batch that came across the pond. We discovered that it was due to the fact that in the manufacture process the filler was not seated at the bottom of the carto shell so wicking was sub standard right off the get go. Pushing the filler down to meet the atty solved this problem. Now as more people use the echo cartos we are getting the same reports and reports of burnt flavor withing a couple days. I believe that the filler will tend to shrink from the bottom depending on the juice used. If the carto is allowed to develop dry spots in the course of usage then the coil will in effect dry burn underneith the filler, casting off carbonized bits and mixing with the clean juice giving one a funky flavor. I also believe that it will be more apparent with the echo type cartomizers as the base of the carto is wider than the top of the carto. Basicly, the wider surface area at the base will tend to dry out at a faster rate than the narrower section at the neck. In both faults the immediate fix is to push the filler down and keep the cartos wet at all times. Once the atty is caramelized up with residue and it starts spitting chunks of carbon to mix with the fresh juice, the only way to remedy the situation is to perform a Mohawk rebuild and dry burn to remove all traces of burnt material. Even with the filler showing burnt stuff it can be cleaned and reinserted without problem.
The pictures you show are a classic example of a carto running dry at the bottom where the coil is and the coil spitting carbon chunks mixing with the juice, thereby giving you that nasty taste. The solution, I believe is to shove the filler down on a brand new carto, prior to filling it then making sure it is totally saturated with juice prior to using it. Once in use, if you are using juice with a high VG or sugar ratio you need to keep it topped off regularly and not run it close to empty. I know this defeats the whole purpose of a large capacity carto that holds 3+ mls of juice but frequent topping off may be necessary to keep the echo carts working smoothly.
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That is what happened with mine. I've never had any burnt taste they are talking about but after five days the draw begin to stiffen as you mentioned.
when you fill them up and you get the dark stuff coming out of the end that is the crud that has built up on the atomizer coming off a little. i have been taking them apart after extended use pulling out the filler and doing a soak in everclear , then a warm water rinse. after this i have been able to do a dry burn using a 808 to 510 adapter with a ego battery . just like you would with a regular atomizer. then rinse it again to get the burnt ash off. that center tube will not burn rather it gets discolored by the burnt juice residue that is on the wick. i went to the hardware store and bought some aluminum tube just slightly bigger than the center tube and was able to clean the filler and put it back in.after this type of cleaning the come back to about 90% of new. i also tried removing about 3/4 of an inch of filler and this helped with thicker juice say 60/40 mix .
I agree with all of the above and would like to add a few observations. I don't know if they are relevant or not, but feel free to let me know what you think, Mohawx.
#1 Since the weather has warmed up I'm having a much easier time getting the cartos to wick properly. This would fall in line with the theory that the juice consistency/viscosity has a lot to do with the problem... the thinner the juice the fewer problems.
#2 Some of the cartos that would not wick before,and were giving off bad vapor, work perfectly after cleaning. The two methods of cleaning are Ultrasonic+bake --or-- completely disassemble+ultrasonic+dryburn. It appears that both methods work.
Therefore... I do not think it's the glue... rather the coil dry burning as Mohawx stated above.
if it were the glue it would be a typically problem for all bottom coils , they seem to all use that same glue the ones from bloog smokeless image and so on all use it.
Hi, I am a newb and the echo is my 1st "real" pv. Can you point me to some detailed instructions for doing the "rebuild" I am understanding up to putting the filler back in. I have two carts that this has happened to and would like to try it. I am currently on my 3rd one but only 4th day and it is currently doing okay. Thanks.
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This thread was for gogo specific cartomizers but the system is proven to work well with all horizontal coil cartomizers like the Echo, Igo and of course the gogo. I suggest you read the whole thread as there are updates to the original post that have been added and discussed. Good luck......Mohawk.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ego-type-models/188388-how-clean-rebuild-gogo-cartomizer.html
Thank you very much mohawkx. I am off to find straws..lol. My first two lasted a week so I guess if I cannot get this to work, $6.00 a week for carts is still cheaper that analogs!!!
Pull the filler first and take the blank carto with you when you look. Check the bars and taverns and the quik-stops like circle -K or 7-11. You'll find straws that work just perfect and fit over the center tube at one or the other place. In addition to the straw for covering the centertube, The McDonald's straw is really important as it is very big and wide for working with the filler in a uniform manner.
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I don't understand exactly what you want to do. The Echo comes with a rubber whistle tip. You can use 801 whistle tips from a cartridge to replace it although they are basically the same tip. If you are talking about taking out the round plug on a 801 carto and inserting that instead of a tip it wouldn't work very well even if it fit.
I had a large bag of Dollar Store straws that have been sitting around that I use. They are so much smaller than regular straws which makes them annoying to drink with them. Fortunately they work perfectly for this purpose.
Where you use McD's straws I use tweezers to evenly tamp down the filler.
We are a resourceful bunch, aren't we?
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