EU The European Union Ignores Science and Common Sense-Dr K Farsalinos

[Anjaffm]

"It's War says France"!

E-cigarette et institutions européennes non-élues : c'est la guerre.

Scroll down the French for the English

great link, thank you!
Great summary of the dangers of this horrible proposal.
Which proposal goes, by the way, against the freedom of speech (= constitutional right) of citizens in the democratic countries of the EU.
Prohibiting private citzens from speaking in favor of e-cigarettes (!) would be violating their constitutional rights. It would also violate the rights of the press.

Oh, it would also make this forum illegal. I was told that this forum is based in the UK. (= EU member country)
This forum, the German vapers forum, many things that we take for granted as citizens of a democratic country.

And that... in a tobacco regulation (!).

In Germany, we will also contact several organs of the press.

About the e-mail:
IMHO, it is problably best to send a personalized text (stating your experience alone, and your opinion alone) than to send a 'formatted', massified one, and let them receive thousands of copies of the same text. I believe the impact of such text would be greater, because it would stress the fact that these are actual people adressing them, who went thru the trouble of telling them their personal story about the e-cig, and why it's important to them.

Just my 2 cents...

But yes, of course, dear!
Of course the personal story is important! No copy and paste a whole text from somewhere else please!

Yeah, even if we write personal mails, the ANTZ will still call us "Astroturfs" = paid industry shills. Which is precisely what THEY are. Takes one to suspect one, eh? BUT the real MEP's, the people who do their jobs in Brussels, the people who go to work just like we do, they know a personal mail when they see one. I read one link about the EU parliament vote on 8 Oct.. and one MEP from the UK said , like "Those people are real".

Go ahead dears, do write to your MEP's.
Let them know that we are real people. With very real concerns! Please!

I t's my belief that most governments have links to both BT & BP, they are far too powerful a lobby to be ignored & carry massive financial clout (another gross understatement) nuff said!
I'm no 'conspiracy theorist ' either just a 'realist'.....age does that

Oooohhh yes!
Big Pharma has their fingers in the pie, big time. Even a TV reporting show in Germany showed it once. How a so-called non-profit organization lobbying the EU against e-cigs was paid by Big Pharma.

And in some cases, Big tobacco is not idle either:

For example, in Lithuania (the country that has the EU Presidency at the moment):
that is a small country. Belonged to the Soviet Union until approx. 1990, got annexed by the Soviet Union after WWII.
A small country, and not rich. So, of course they do appreciate the .. uhm.. presence of Philip Morris.
http://www.investlithuania.com/files/files/PDF/philip_morris_in_lithuania.pdf

The Investments in Lithuania made by PMI since 1993 exceed 143 million USD

And, well, having been a Soviet republic until approx. 1990, naturally, such things as "freedom of the press" and "freedom of expression" .... such things are kind of new .. to people from a country that used to be a Soviet republic. So why not try and forbid that silly "freedom of expression" by individuals in the entire EU? Worked well in the Soviet Union, did it not?

Yes, yes, it is now 2013. So what?
In 1990 (when Lithuania ceased to be a Soviet Republic), I was 30 years old. At the age of 30, my "education" and the forming of my mind on many things had pretty much been finished. On things such as "freedom of expression", "freedom of the press", "freedom of information".
People who grew up in the then Soviet Republic of Lithuania also got an education at that time.
Which was quite different from mine, believe me.
And there are some things that you cannot re-think.

(.. why do you think that the ANTZ are poisoning the minds of children with their nonsense? .... )

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Here's an interesting list of who spends how much lobbying congress in the US, don't know if there is a similar organization in the EU but this one is interesting. Note that tobacco isn't even in the top 20 here, they spend >12% of what BP has to buy congress.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

 

[jpargana]

Holy Mother of God... It turns out that the RIVM (Government Institution for Public Health and Environment) has ties to Big Pharma. Now the monkey comes out of the sleeve, as we say here in Holland.

Usually I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but I'm going to make myself a tin foil hat tonight. With a chimney so my vapor can escape.

When in doubt, follow the money trail...

(Except, there seems to be no doubt after all...)

 

[Julie W]

Dear friends,

There are 2 online petitions, signing them would be a great help.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/No_ban_on_electronic_smoking/
Freedom of Choice for Smokers Petition

Signed & shared

 

[jpargana]

(...)
It is important to remember that Members of the European Parliament are people. Just like us. When they go to the bathroom, they do not look any different that we do
(...)

Well... it just occured to me that they may not look that different... and yet, I'm pretty sure they get to poop in a room just about the size of my entire place.

If someone knocks at their bathroom door, they really have to yell to make themselves heard. And to the guy standing at the door, it will sound more like "Occupied... pied... ied..." !

Now, if someone came knocking at my bathroom door, I would not even have to speak if i didn't feel like it. I could just kick the door and be done with it !!

So you see, Anja dear, there is a difference after all !!

 

[Anjaffm]

@jpargana:

tee hee hee

But apart from the size of the bathroom, those MEP's do the same things in a bathroom that you and I do

I got that good idea from my mom, a very wise woman. She once said to me when I was a young girl:
"Anja, if you are ever afraid of somebody, of their high position, and you think you cannot dare to speak to that person, because they are so high and you are "only a person" - then just remember this: When that high and mighty person goes to the bathroom, that person will look just like you do!"

............

-- My mom worked for the government, in a public authority. Already in the 1960s, when public authorities had a very vertical chain of command. It was "Yes, Mr. (insert rank of high-ranking civil servant)." "No, Mr. (insert rank of high-ranking civil servant)". But when she got the feeling that she had to sink into the floor with awe of the great Mr. Oberamtsrat (high-ranking civil servant in his own public authority), that bathroom trick sure helped

............

So, dears, just remember that the MEP's are not kings. Not saints to be worshipped. They are people, just like us. Who do a job, just like us.

So go ahead and write to them

 

[Julie W]

quote Anja:

"Who do a job, just like us".......

And we put them there to do it, they were elected to do it, & it's up to us to make sure they do what they were elected for i.e. to represent the people...
we are paying them after all.

If not I say off with their heads

 

[Dave_in_OK]

A civil servant only has power if their masters allow them too. Remember we are their masters not the other way around and when they forget that we need to remind them!

 

[jpargana]

Hello all,

Below is the translation to English of the mail I intend to send in a while to the Portuguese MP's who voted against the directive on the 08th...

I just thought about sharing it... maybe you can harvest some ideias...


Please, please, do not Forget to write to your MP's too, people!!!
We can only stand United!!


"Dear Sir,

I would like to thank you in advance for the time spent reading this message.

First of all, I want to congratulate you for having voted, on the past 08th November, against the EU Directive that would have medicalized the electronic cigarette.

This Directive would have, for all practical purposes, banned from the market a product that has greatly improved my health and my quality of life. I'm fully aware that I speak also in behalf of maybe thousands of people in Portugal who, just like me, have personally experienced the countless advantages of the electronic cigarette - certainly, this is not the first message adressed to you on this matter...

This issue is very important for me, and to many users as well, because I have gone thru several failed attemps to quit smoking, sometimes without any help, other times using pharma products... to no avail.
By the end of 2008, I heard about this 'electronic cigarette'. It seemed a good choice over the smoking of cigarettes. But was it really safe? Obviously, before embarking blindly into this 'new style' presented by the electronic cigarette in Portugal by 2008, I research the medical studies that were already available at the time.... above all, it was my health that would be jeopardized if I were to make a bad decision.

Satisfied with everything I read for about a month an an half, I then decided to switch to electronic cigarettes (It was then the beginning of 2009). It was a personal and informed decision, one I have not regretted to this day. Till today, I have not fell back to smoking again, with the obvious health benefits that followed.
I am quite sure that countless other users would present similar accounts on this matter.

It is paramount to understand that the electronic cigarette, unlike the several pharma products already in the market, should not be considered as a new quit-smoking therapeutic, but instead as an alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes. Non-alchoolic beer, for example, is marketed and publicitized not as a therapeutical mean to fight or prevent alchool abuse, but instead as just another market alternative, one that is healthier than other, similar products already in the market.

Likewise, the electronic cigarette is not used in a perspective of 'quitting cigarettes', unlike pharma products. In fact, the very name of the product (electronic cigarette) makes that distinction clear: users intend to keep the behavioural aspect of smoking, and the addiction to nicotine, but in a way that allows them to stop 'smoking', in the very strict meaning of the word (stop inhaling cigarette smoke, which is detrimental to their health). That is, they intend to keep using some sort of cigarette, only this time an alternative cigarette to those already in the market. One that is workable for the user (by simulating the act of smoking in a satisfying manner), but with much lesser health risks.

To keep insisting in too heavy regulation, disproportionate to the low risks involved (already extensively documented), would be taking away from millions of long-term users in the EU the only workable alternative to tobacco smoking. Tobacco smoking is, as far as I know, responsible for the anually death of about 700.000 persons in the EU. It is with some strangeness that we do not see any forthcoming regulation to ban tobacco cigarettes...

We would like to ask you, if possible, to convey the ideas and fears presented above to your peers who, somehow, still support the thesis that the electronic cigarette should be heavily regulated, beyond reason. That line of though, I believe, can only be born on some sort of ideological issue concernig the act of smoking, or rather, the mimicking of smoking, because from a medical and scientific perspective, there are not a great deal of doubts about the obvius benefits of using an electronic cigarette to replace tobacco cigarettes.



Kind Regards,"

 

[NicoHolic]

This is scarily similar to, but even worse than, what I've been expecting from the FDA. That is:

1. Ban retail sales of liquid nicotine
2. Ban all nicotine flavors except tobacco
3. Restrict nicotine level to 20-25 mg/ml
4. Restrict retail sales of nicotine to sealed, unrefillable, prefilled one milliliter cartomizers

I wonder if the draft for this proposed EU legislation came from a draft of the coming FDA NPRM... or vice versa?

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

This is scarily similar to, but even worse than, what I've been expecting from the FDA. That is:

1. Ban retail sales of liquid nicotine
2. Ban all nicotine flavors except tobacco
3. Restrict nicotine level to 20-25 mg/ml
4. Restrict retail sales of nicotine to sealed, unrefillable, prefilled one milliliter cartomizers

I wonder if the draft for this proposed EU legislation came from a draft of the coming FDA NPRM... or vice versa?

I'd say they both are being heavily lobbied by BP, these rules play into basically banning them which is what BP wants.

 

[Anjaffm]

@jpargana:

wonderful!

Two things though, please
1. The MEP's who voted FOR are the ones who voted FOR us They are the ones who voted FOR the amendment No 18 in the form that would NOT make e-cigs medicines

2. (my own .. preference)

and the addiction to nicotine,

May I suggest replacing this with:

and keep consuming nicotine for their pleasure

To my mind, it is not beneficial to speak of "addiction". As we know, the nicotine in e-cigs is much less addictive than the nicotine-other-substances combination in tobacco smoke. In addition, I would just not mention the word "addiction" at all. To my mind, it has a negative connotation. We consume nicotine for our pleasure. Period. - Same as we consume alcohol and coffee for our pleasure

Apart from that: great letter, dear

 

[Steamix]

Let's not forget :

EU health chief resigns in corruption scandal - Businessweek

Happened before, gonna happen again, likely to happen right now...

 

[Anjaffm]

@Steamix:
yup
And Lithuania (EU council presidency) being in bed with Big Tobacco (to the tune of 143 million US$ investment by Philip Morris in Lithuania since 1993) is .. uhm... quite interesting as well, in this trilogue business.

................

Ok, dears, have you all signed this petition and shared it
- in your home forum in your home country
- in any social media where you are active
?

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petitio..._from_excessive_EU_regulation/?email&mobile=1

German forum coming in.
And now is the time to ask for personal favors on Facebook or any social media where you are active.
(I shared on Facebook and asked specifically do "please do me this favor. You do not have to be from Europe to sign)
This thing is time-critical. To the max.

go go go

To our American friends on this forum:
This is one big favor that you can do to us European vapers: Sign this petition and share it / pass it on. Help us get the 20.000 signatures. Please.

 

[dick39]

@jpargana:

To my mind, it is not beneficial to speak of "addiction". As we know, the nicotine in e-cigs is much less addictive than the nicotine-other-substances combination in tobacco smoke. In addition, I would just not mention the word "addiction" at all. To my mind, it has a negative connotation. We consume nicotine for our pleasure. Period. - Same as we consume alcohol and coffee for our pleasure

Anja, this is very interesting.
I would even say more, this is a very very very interesting point of view.
This tells me, if the EU consider our e-cig as an addiction, because e-sigs contain nicotine, that they have to ban all cafeïne and alcohol products, AND tobacco products.
Period.

 

[jpargana]

(...)
2. (my own .. preference)

"and the addiction to nicotine,"

May I suggest replacing this with:

"and keep consuming nicotine for their pleasure"


To my mind, it is not beneficial to speak of "addiction". As we know, the nicotine in e-cigs is much less addictive than the nicotine-other-substances combination in tobacco smoke. In addition, I would just not mention the word "addiction" at all. To my mind, it has a negative connotation. We consume nicotine for our pleasure. Period. - Same as we consume alcohol and coffee for our pleasure
(...)

Yes... good idea! You know, I actually struggled a bit with that one

Anyway, I still did not send anything. Still time to change that.

 

[jpargana]

Now, that's a relieve... petitions signed, and mails sent !!

In my usual group of friends, there used to be only me vaping. About three weeks ago, a couple started vaping too. Minutes ago, as I was passing the guy the links and the adresses so that they could voice their concerns too, I was told that his mother-in-law has also joined us just 2 days ago! So, my number has just been multiplied by four in just three weeks! Those people will fight too!!

Please, please... I urge you ALL to do the same ! The half-hour you spend writing some lines and e-mailing them can make all the difference!

Cheers!

 

[Orb Skewer]

'Addiction' is a label used abused, to vilify

Carl Hart, "HIGH PRICE: A Neuroscientist's Journey of Self-Discovery That ..." | Talks At Google - YouTube

 

[LDS714]

Yeah, even if we write personal mails, the ANTZ will still call us "Astroturfs" = paid industry shills. Which is precisely what THEY are. Takes one to suspect one, eh?

I have often maintained that the first line of defense of a liar is to call others out for lying.

 

[Julie W]

This is a foretaste of things to come
In the EU you can expect to pay € 9.60 for 2 recharges of half a ml each, or €96.00 for 10mls

Rechargeable | Vype UK

So I was right to stock up on my DIY supplies it seems advise everyone to do the same

(mods if in the wrong place please move)