the evil of taxation...............watch this space.

[phil61]

having been around a fair few years I have had good opportunities to analyse human behaviour, and in particular, the human behaviour of that unusual species of human, the politician.
I have noticed how their solution to most problems that arise is to tax it.
for example. they decided we were eating too much sugar. so they taxed it
they decided we like our wine too much, so they taxed it.
and everyone will remember the not so beloved "tobacco duty" we all had to pay on our cigarettes.
now tobacco duty was a tax specifically targeting products with tobacco or tobacco products in them. in some cases the amount of duty paid was more than half the cost of the item.
for example, a pack of £6 cigarettes where the tobacco duty amounted to £3.40.
this of course was in addition to the even more beloved duty, value added tax (vat)
the mystery of the logic behind this one I am still pondering over some 40 years after it was introduced.
now I have come to the conclusion that politicians have one big love of their lives........money.
and the fastest and easiest way for them to be united with their lover is taxation.
but where you might ask is my point to all this.
well..............vaping is relatively new.
it does not contain any tobacco products and therefore cannot be subjected to tobacco duty tax.
this adds up to a lot of money not going to the politician.
and the more people who give up cigs and go onto vaping, the more they lose their beloved tobacco duty.
this of course will not be allowed to go on.
therefore I predict that in the near future they will "commission" a "report" into vaping and come up with some .... and bull story of it being harmful to health and others who are around vapers.
to them it will not matter one iota if any of the said report is true. their goal will have been achieved...........ie an excuse to tax.
the price of batteries, juices, and clearomisers will rise dramatically overnight.
and what once was a big money saver to us vapers will become am as expensive game as smoking was, and a nice little earner for mr politician.
to this end I recommend you do, if you can, what I have done.
I have enough batteries, clearomisers, spare parts, and juices to last the rest of my life. that is assuming I don't live beyond 80.
I am 55 and have in stock for example, 70 batteries and 20 mod devices. enough batteries alone to happily vape for 25 years and not have to buy another battery,
same thing goes for the clearomisers and spare coils etc.
so, when they do tax e cigarettes and e liquids, and they will tax it you can be sure on that, I wont be paying anymore tax.
sure its a lot of money to lay out now, but you only buy it all once and as I see it why should I pay 10 grand over the next 15 years to vape when I can buy it all now for 1 grand?
food for thought gentlemen?

 

[TheRussianVaper]

I completely agree with you on the taxation insanity, the bureaucrats don't even care that vaping saves lives. Just goes to show that politicians never care about us the people, all they care about is votes and money. It would be good for people to realize this in all aspects of life. "Government is never the answer."

 

[Vaslovik]

therefore I predict that in the near future they will "commission" a "report" into vaping and come up with some .... and bull story of it being harmful to health and others who are around vapers.
to them it will not matter one iota if any of the said report is true. their goal will have been achieved...........ie an excuse to tax.

You are of course correct in all that you said, and they have already commissioned such reports, calling them "studies". A "study" is the propaganda they have paid someone to cook up pursuant to their taxation agenda and focuses on vilifying the object of the taxation in any way necessary to achieve their ends. Any lie that can be used is used because they know it will cost you big to disprove it and fight them. It's way cheaper to cook up a lie than it is to refute it.

 

[sofarsogood]

having been around a fair few years I have had good opportunities to analyse human behaviour, and in particular, the human behaviour of that unusual species of human, the politician.
I have noticed how their solution to most problems that arise is to tax it.
for example. they decided we were eating too much sugar. so they taxed it
they decided we like our wine too much, so they taxed it.
and everyone will remember the not so beloved "tobacco duty" we all had to pay on our cigarettes.
now tobacco duty was a tax specifically targeting products with tobacco or tobacco products in them. in some cases the amount of duty paid was more than half the cost of the item.
for example, a pack of £6 cigarettes where the tobacco duty amounted to £3.40.
this of course was in addition to the even more beloved duty, value added tax (vat)
the mystery of the logic behind this one I am still pondering over some 40 years after it was introduced.
now I have come to the conclusion that politicians have one big love of their lives........money.
and the fastest and easiest way for them to be united with their lover is taxation.
but where you might ask is my point to all this.
well..............vaping is relatively new.
it does not contain any tobacco products and therefore cannot be subjected to tobacco duty tax.
this adds up to a lot of money not going to the politician.
and the more people who give up cigs and go onto vaping, the more they lose their beloved tobacco duty.
this of course will not be allowed to go on.
therefore I predict that in the near future they will "commission" a "report" into vaping and come up with some .... and bull story of it being harmful to health and others who are around vapers.
to them it will not matter one iota if any of the said report is true. their goal will have been achieved...........ie an excuse to tax.
the price of batteries, juices, and clearomisers will rise dramatically overnight.
and what once was a big money saver to us vapers will become am as expensive game as smoking was, and a nice little earner for mr politician.
to this end I recommend you do, if you can, what I have done.
I have enough batteries, clearomisers, spare parts, and juices to last the rest of my life. that is assuming I don't live beyond 80.
I am 55 and have in stock for example, 70 batteries and 20 mod devices. enough batteries alone to happily vape for 25 years and not have to buy another battery,
same thing goes for the clearomisers and spare coils etc.
so, when they do tax e cigarettes and e liquids, and they will tax it you can be sure on that, I wont be paying anymore tax.
sure its a lot of money to lay out now, but you only buy it all once and as I see it why should I pay 10 grand over the next 15 years to vape when I can buy it all now for 1 grand?
food for thought gentlemen?

I'm concerned about government interference too, including taxes. Stockpiling is a sensible response but doesn't need to be expensive. If I was starting from scratch a 10 year supply of 100mg nic, TC mods and rda's should cost me about $500.

 

[sonicbomb]

It's lazy and profitable.

 

[evan le'garde]

The tax system is weird in the UK, i don't know about anywhere else.

Here's the thing, completely off topic but just thought i'd bring it up and maybe someone might be able to explain it to me. Most grocery items don't carry V.A.T. So you can buy a can of beans, or a packet or rice etc with no 20% value added tax. Thing what confuses me is that the packaging these products come in did at one point during manufacture carry V.A.T. The packaging company would have to have paid V.A.T on their raw materials. So somewhere down the line this value added tax just vanishes into thin air. When we the consumer buy these products the price includes what it cost to manufacture plus a profit margin. We still pay the value added tax in the cost but for some unknown reason it isn't officially recognised and we are told by the government that we don't have to pay V.A.T on those items and we're so very lucky to not have to.

You may say, "well the packaging cost is negligable". I'd say yes it is, for the brand producer it is yes. I'd say that the retailer can charge what they want for it. So for example if they buy it for a penny then sell it to us for 50 we are paying 10 pence V.A.T, unofficially !. There's no limit to how much we are being charged for the packaging. If i bought an eco pack of coffee it will cost me about £4. But if i buy a glass jar of coffee it costs the same. The eco pack the coffee comes in costs significantly less than the glass jar to manufacture. So how much are they charging me up for the eco packaging ?.

It's just weird !.

 

[beckdg]

We should get together and pay to publicize ridiculous lies also.

Tobacco smoke saves kittens
Used motor oil makes great fertilizer

Etc.

Design them to look like it comes from the same sources.

Then turn the tides and expose them when we have public attention.

Tapatyped

 

[supertrunker]

A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on.

T

 

[OlderNDirt]

I agree with all you said and would add.......

When will an analysis be allowed that details everything the average person pays in a year for ALL taxes? Notice how so many taxes are "hidden?" Why don't they show the actual price of gas on the pump, then show the amount of taxes added on to arrive at the price you pay? Ever see the amount of taxes charged on a bottle of the booze of your choice? A pack of smokes? And on and on. I believe most people would be shocked at what they are actually paying annually in all taxation.

As far as stockpiling equipment, the only problem could (notice I said could) be the technological improvements. Looking at the advancements in just the last couple years, who knows what it may evolve into in another 5, let alone 10 years? Avoiding "shinyitis" is one thing, but remaining satisfied with outdated technology might be even harder. I thought I was quite happy and satisfied with what I was using just a short 15 months ago, but would be challenged to go back to it now.

For me, I am pretty well set for at least the next couple years, but do have to deal with shinyitis too frequently. I think I'll worry about preparing for the vapocolyps when it becomes a bit more inevitable.

 

[Bunnykiller]

the government always gets their money... either thru fines or taxes.
if you cant make it legal ... fine it
if you can make it legal ... tax it

 

[Von Vape]

DITTO!​

The governments of the world tried everything to get "us" off of tobacco, warning labels, anti smoking adds, advertisement bans, doctors bringing diseased lungs into grade school & "middle school" class rooms (when did Jr. High turn into "middle school"???) & sponsorship bans. Then they decided to continually raise the taxes on tobacco products, hitting us in the wallet and building quite the tidy nest egg for themselves, a phenominal revenue stream! What they didn't have the foresight to see is that they were taxing THEMSELVES out of that revenue stream. Technology caught up (it's been around since 1963!) and the tobacco dollars began to dwindle.

OF COURSE they are going to try & "Take A Second Bite at The Tobacco Tax" through vaping. That's what "The Deeming Process" is all about. It's not about health concerns. If it were, our governments would actually SUPPORT vaping advancements & technology, using the "supposed" tobacco cessation money they have been collecting all of these years. It's not about product safety. In the U.S. we have Underwriters Laboratories (U.L.) for that and it's not about what's in the "juice". We have the FDA for that. It's about THE MONEY!

IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
DUH...​

I call them "Behavior Modification Taxes". They work like this;
"We" believe that "X" is "politically incorrect" and "we" don't want you to do "that" so "we're" going to tax you until you stop doing "that"."
It's a very effective tactic but always leads to needing a new revenue stream once they've achieved their "supposed" goal.

It's just like the "Safety Corridors" we have on our highways here in Alaska. (I'm sure other states & countries have these too.) First the fines & points were doubled for speeding in these areas. Once enough people got ticketed double for as little as 4 mph. over, the speeding was nearly eliminated. Revenue lost, but wait! Now comes the NEW signs along the "safety corridors", "Headlights MUST be ON at ALL TIMES". Along with that comes, you guessed it, a $50 ticket, 2 points and a half hour lecture on being a scoff law. "Headlights on at all times makes you more visible and saves lives!" Now, in general, that's pretty hard to argue with BUT a) Alaska's catch phrase is "The Land Of The Midnight Sun" AS IN IT'S DAYLIGHT NEARLY 24/7 through the Summer. b) I, for one, am COMPLETELY capable of knowing when I need my headlights and when it's appropriate to have them on and c) If people would PAY ATTENTION while driving, instead of texting, eating & talking on cell phones, they'd be able to see a one ton chunk of steel and glass coming down the road, headlights on or not. You can't fix stupid! But it's not about fixing stupid, it's about THE MONEY!

There goes another !!!

Von Vape

 

[VHRB2014]

Argggg.

 

[Str8vision]

Taxation is inevitable and was their goal from the start. Government's haven't invested all this time/effort spreading malicious lies and disinformation about vaping to justify their efforts to regulate it, it's all about potential revenue $$$ and control.

While some locales/countries already have -light- token taxation and/or in-person sales requirements in place this is only the very beginning, the worst is yet to come but is likely still one to three years away. Just like with cigarettes, once implemented taxes will periodically increase until they represent the majority of total cost. Been there done that, this isn't my first rodeo and I don't plan on being bucked off this horse by lying, greedy, conniving politicians. I'm not worried about batteries, wire, cotton, flavorings etc.. as those items are readily available through other industries intended for other purposes. Atomizers and mods I do have in storage although I doubt obtaining new ones will ever be difficult. Ready made juice and Liquid nic will be their preferred tax targets, that's the choke point with regular recurring sales (revenue) that are easy to restrict/monitor/control.

The only thing we have working in our favor is that government moves at a turtle's pace granting those blessed with foresight ample time to act in their own self interest. Many of us realized what was going on -years ago- and began looking for ways to survive/thrive, planning for the inevitability of government involvement. Personally, through stockpiling, I've divorced federal and state governments from the equation -entirely- and in doing so rendered their future contrived tax schemes null and void. I'll still be enjoying $0.02 per ml NET long after other vapers are forced to pay a $2.00 (or more) for the same or quit vaping.

For the purpose of taxation, it appears the European Union is attempting to establish 1ml of 8mg nicotine as being equal to a pack of (20) cigarettes. At that rate a liter of 100mg liquid nic would be considered equivalent to 12,500 packs of cigarettes. Ouch! Where you live how much tax would there be on 12,500 packs of cigarettes? Just food for thought.

I buy in bulk and only when on sale, the last 100mg nic I purchased cost $50 per liter ($0.00 in taxes) and since I bought several liters shipping was free. Stored at -10F in airtight glass containers, liquid nic has an indefinite shelf life with minimal degradation of strength over an extended period of time (years). It does still oxidize just at a greatly reduced rate, the colder it's kept the slower it degrades.

An avid extractor, I've been making NETs for several years supplying myself and half a dozen close friends. I have enough nic stored for about ten years mixing but plan to add even more to the stockpile later this year -if- the price is right. Funny thing is should heavy taxation hit, while others are losing money hand over fist paying draconian taxes the $$$ value of my stockpile could make me (in assets anyway) quite wealthy.

 

[supertrunker]

Buy pork bellies.

The EU is a different animal and when a law is passed, it is not implemented equally across all the member states, so as a broad generalisation, the French will obey it if it suits them, the Italians are too busy arguing to give a monkey's and the Germans and English will codify it into national law and follow it blindly.

You also forget that there is free movement of people and goods in the Schengen zone and that is part of the reason for the current migrant/refugee crisis as well as recent terrorist attacks.

As a general rule, taxation has been accompanied by representation, and 'sin taxes' have typically been levied against things that are unhealthy. It's hard to make the same case for taxing e-liquid.

T

 

[crxess]

There are two Distinct levels of Society, not the inner levels established by the millions of little cliche's thiking each is Better/more politically correct/etc, but the Absolute Two Divisions most lower level members of Society never realize.

The upper most level which seeks to Set Regulation - Planet Wide - and control every aspect of Human action. Then the Lower level of the Masses Forced or Tricked into Following those Regulations.

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