The final countdown to August 8th - your FDA comments NEEDED

[Rickajho]

Good morning everyone.

My eyes have tears in them. Those tears represent all the heart and soul of thousands of vapers that have shared their stories and experiences. They represent the vapers that were willing to put their soul into a battle we never imagined we would have to fight. In some cases, lives were at great risk until they found vaping.

I applaud each and every one of you.

*grabs tissue*

Thank you



Dammit need more tissues

Robin needs a ice cream? (And no, it's not too early in the day...)

 

[Robino1]

Robin needs a ice cream? (And no, it's not too early in the day...)

Nah, just more coffee and a my vape!

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

Basically, FDA has taken the position that it cannot exert regulatory jurisdiction over e-cigarettes (by deeming them as "tobacco products") without subjecting them to the whole host of provisions of of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (TCA), the provisions of which would essentially destroy the industry with paperwork filings alone (none of which accomplish anything positive or beneficial for consumers).

Given that, our position is that if you can't exert jurisdiction without destroying that which you seek to regulate, then, no, you can't exert jurisdiction.

To my lawyer-wannabe analysis, this sounds like both an opening statement AND a closing statement in a court of law.

The only thing that needs to be said in-between, is to demand the FDA present the fair & accurate cost/benefit analysis as required by law.

Powerful!

Judges are going to be a critical factor going forward.

Well done CASAA!!!!

 

[choochoogranny]

Grrrr, as of now, the site is only showing over 59,000 comments. What happened to the other 20,000?

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

Grrrr, as of now, the site is only showing over 59,000 comments. What happened to the other 20,000?

Probably had a robot-widget thingie go through and siphon away every comment that started with "As an adult cigar smoker...!

 

[Robino1]

Grrrr, as of now, the site is only showing over 59,000 comments. What happened to the other 20,000?

This just taken:



I see the same number from yesterday????

 

[Robino1]

Probably had a robot-widget thingie go through and siphon away every comment that started with "As an adult cigar smoker...!

Let's hope.

 

[choochoogranny]

Okay, my tin foil hat on now.....FDA planned on relenting to the cigar lobby. Straw man. Get cigar people to flood the comments and here and there delete the e-cig comments? FDA gets to play Santa Claus to cigar lobby; and since e-cig people aren't interested enough to send in comments, why they don't care what's done to them.

How do you lose 20,000 comments between 3 a.m. and 9 a.m.?

Edit: Just looked again and it's got the 75,735 figure again.....Then I read the asterisk explanation. So, looks like the cigar people will have a lot of comments not counted and maybe a few of our own.....Taking off the foil hat now.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I'm scared. Probably going to stock up on 100mg nic this month...

 

[aikanae1]

The count is all over the place. I left the browser open for a couple of hours and instead of 57k it was showing 45k. Then I refreshed and it was back to 57k again. Last night I thought it was 77k - wasn't there an article in the Hill saying comments had topped 70k?

I know when I go into view all camments, I put in the search term "cigarette" and the result is apx 7k and that doesn't seem to change. It hasn't gone down or up since last night.

I did notince off the the right hand side colum this message;

* This count refers to the total comment/submissions received on this document, as of 11:59 PM yesterday. Note: Agencies review all submissions, however some agencies may choose to redact, or withhold, certain submissions (or portions thereof) such as those containing private or proprietary information, inappropriate language, or duplicate/near duplicate examples of a mass-mail campaign. This can result in discrepancies between this count and those displayed when conducting searches on the Public Submission document type. For specific information about an agency’s public submission policy, refer to its website or the Federal Register documen

I'm curious to see if they count "I an adult consumer of premium cigars ....." form letters. I don't think I saw an original letter for cigars (there must have been ONE) and I will do a happy dance if they dump the form letters from American Academy of Pediatrics - who knew doctors couldn't come up with original content?

But other than that, I didn't see form letters for / against ecigs. That's kinda rare with this many comments.

 

[Hoosier]

I want to thank everyone who took the time and submitted comments. I especially want to thank my never-a-smoker and non-vaping wife who submitted her comments. She is just beautiful through and through.

I want to remind all you wonderful people that the fight is not over. The process continues and if you didn't join us in this step, there will be other opportunities to help yourself and all vapers. No matter how screwed up our system is, the voice of the people can still make a difference. It takes us all to make enough noise to be heard, but it's a beautiful noise.
Sent by big fingers on a tiny phone via Tapatalk

 

[choochoogranny]

So it's a good thing NOT to send them a "form" letter to even get it counted and even IF everyone of them is sent by by a different person. You don't count if your comment is too much like another's.

Scrambling/changing the numbers, Aikanae, the government is good at. The better to confuse you and me....The better to hide the truth. Does anybody believe the IRS for example? How about the employment/unemployment numbers? Lemme see....Hm-m-m-m...

 

[tA71ana]

This just taken:

View attachment 363441

I see the same number from yesterday????

Folks, We are dealing with the Feds here.
Their Technology is a bit behind the times - trust me.
They might be compiling all of these comments with a program that still runs COBOL (no joke)

 

[ColoKaren]

I have to apologize in advance for my ignorance--I'm an old lady college student, and that's been eating me alive for the past several months. I haven't read the entire FDA document(s), so please forgive me that.

I've read the line here several times that 99% of existing vape products will be banned by the FDA (perhaps pending endless piles of paperwork and experiments on monkeys before being accepted for public consumption). Can someone kindly break this down for me? For example, I've read that IBTanked tanks and Ikenvape cartos will be banned specifically, presumedly among nearly every other product.

 

[zoiDman]

So it's a good thing NOT to send them a "form" letter to even get it counted and even IF everyone of them is sent by by a different person. You don't count if your comment is too much like another's.
...

I think a Comment from an Individual is Always Better than a Forum Letter with an Individuals name at the Bottom of it.

Keep in Mind. This was a comment period Not a voting period. And the Side that makes the Most Comments Doesn't "Win".

When I read the Comments posted by members here in this Thread, I saw POV's that range the Entire Gambit from people of Every Age Group. And from People that have been using an e-Cigarette for a Couple of Days. To People who have been using one for 5 Years. Multi Page Presentations with Links to 3 or 4 Line statements. And Everything in between.

I didn't see this when I read Comments that started with... "I am an adult who smokes premium cigars."

A comment period like we just saw, in My Opinion, does a lot of things. Of Course, it solicits Comments. But it gives the FDA a sense of where there is going to Opposition and where there is going to be Support on things. It gives the FDA and Congress a gauge as to just how Organized and Active a sector of "Tobacco" users may, or may Not be. And also how well Educated people in General may be about a Certain Issue.

Receiving 10,000 Forum Letters about Premium Cigars Doesn't Bring much in the way of any Personal Perspective. Or add anything New to the Consideration of Potential Rules. But it Does Demonstrate a High Level of Organization.

 

[marlight]

I'm scared. Probably going to stock up on 100mg nic this month...

I already ordered mine yesterday from MFS who is, thankfully, having a sale on it this month.

 

[choochoogranny]

Then, ZoiDman, 10,000 "non form" letters with different stories and levels of knowledge indicate?

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

I think a Comment from an Individual is Always Better than a Forum Letter with an Individuals name at the Bottom of it.

Keep in Mind. This was a comment period Not a voting period. And the Side that makes the Most Comments Doesn't "Win".

When I read the Comments posted by members here in this Thread, I saw POV's that range the Entire Gambit from people of Every Age Group. And from People that have been using an e-Cigarette for a Couple of Days. To People who have been using one for 5 Years. Multi Page Presentations with Links to 3 or 4 Line statements. And Everything in between.

I didn't see this when I read Comments that started with... "I am an adult who smokes premium cigars."

A comment period like we just saw, in My Opinion, does a lot of things. Of Course, it solicits Comments. But it gives the FDA a sense of where there is going to Opposition and where there is going to be Support on things. It gives the FDA and Congress a gauge as to just how Organized and Active a sector of "Tobacco" users may, or may Not be. And also how well Educated people in General may be about a Certain Issue.

Receiving 10,000 Forum Letters about Premium Cigars Doesn't Bring much in the way of any Personal Perspective. Or add anything New to the Consideration of Potential Rules. But it Does Demonstrate a High Level of Organization.

Also, the comments we're making are about our health derived from not smoking tobacco not a plea of leaving an actual smoking product alone.

Furthermore all political people have some sort of equation which is like for every actual post there is 1,000 (?) people who did not post but feel the same way. If we hit even 70,000 that is huge! Well done everyone!!

 

[zoiDman]

Then, ZoiDman, 10,000 "non form" letters with different stories and levels of knowledge indicate?

It Indicates that there are 10,000 people Willing to spend 10 Minutes to Write a Comment to the FDA.

And that type of Person is the Type of Person who will Probably Also be willing to write their Congressional Reps. Or Donate to or Enjoin in Legal Litigation.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I have to apologize in advance for my ignorance--I'm an old lady college student, and that's been eating me alive for the past several months. I haven't read the entire FDA document(s), so please forgive me that.

I've read the line here several times that 99% of existing vape products will be banned by the FDA (perhaps pending endless piles of paperwork and experiments on monkeys before being accepted for public consumption). Can someone kindly break this down for me? For example, I've read that IBTanked tanks and Ikenvape cartos will be banned specifically, presumedly among nearly every other product.

We do not for know for certain what will happen as this is only a proposal and not the final rule. If they do in fact regulate hardware as is my reading of the proposal then every single piece of e-cigarette specific hardware (ie mods, tanks, cartos, rbas, etc.) that was not proved to be on the market before the 2007 date set by Congress in the tobacco control law (everything we use today) would have to go through lengthy testing costing hundreds of thousands of dollars for each specific piece and then hope the FDA then approves them as a new product. If they don't (which seems to be the norm for tobacco products) you would just be out all your research money and the fee to the FDA. If they do, there would also be annual fees that would be involved in the 5 digit figure range. Bear in mind this is for each and every design that varies at all from another. Only huge corporations could afford to do this and they would only do it for a very small number of products because they would have to recoup their costs with large sales dollars. This means that at least 99.9% of all ecig hardware would not be legal to sell in about 4 years. If regulated the future could range from regulation of any nicotine derived from tobacco taken off the market leaving only Big Tobacco tamper proof cigalikes in tobacco flavor with skull and crossbones on the packaging sitting behind the counter costing 2X to 10X what they do today without sales over the internet, to hardware not regulated unless it is sold containing nicotine and eliquid would have child proof lids and be made in an FDA approved lab.