The high cost of vaping. Better not to start or even quit?

[Splat]

you're forgetting about all the other crap you buy when you stop at the local shop to buy cigs - gum, mints, softdrink, etc. I have found that cash is lasting a whole lot longer in my wallet these days and I suspect that if you factor that additional cost into the cost of smoking analogs, you'll see a different picture.

IMO, though, I am happy to pay a premium to vape rather than smoke - the health benefits for me and my family make the cost insignificant

 

[Vampirecat019]

Yes indeed, Splat. I would always buy a $4 pint of mountain berry cheesecake ice cream, a candy bar, a liter of iced tea, and usually at least $10 worth of gas just because I happened into the store for cigarettes the same time every night and subsequently gave in to my sweet-tooth addiction as well as my nicotine/4000+ other poisons-smoking habit. :/ Now I have cash in the bank and gas in the tank after only a WEEK of smoking the e-cigarette. Albeit I am nearly an E-cig virgin compared to most on this forum, but the benefits literally were instant for me, as I went from 1+ pack(s) a day for 11 *years* to 1 cartridge a day literally the day I received my E-Cigarette kit in the mail. That's one less twenty-five-dollar costing, polluting, time-wasting trip to the store PER DAY than just last week. Not to mention the health benefits. I can already smell, taste, and breathe much better. Alas, not everyone will save money on this as some will naturally go spend-happy (Myself included when I can afford an E-juice spree, muwahaha.) but all should enjoy some kind(s) of health improvements seen or not, since we're no longer breathing over 4000 poisons. Just one.

 

[Vampirecat019]

Your real cost-saving will come when:
1. You totally stopped analogs.
2. You vape at 0 nic.
3. You built/DIY your own battery-mod.
4. You DIY your own E-juice.

I achieved:
(1.) within 1 week of vaping,
(2.) after 2 months of vaping,
(3.) after 2-half months of vaping(learn fr this forum),
(4.) after 2 months of vaping(learn fr this forum).

I am now analog-free for 6 months, nicotine-free for 4 months and I now vape lite ( 5/6 times/day). Ecig help me quit my nasty 20 years 15-sticks/day habit!

But now I got a big PROBLEM? I am over-stock with ecig's, atty, E-juice, batteries and chargers!

Lesson learnt: Don't over-stock yourself with more than 6 months ecig supply. Because chances are that you may quit analog and ecig eventually, faster than you may have thought initially. That's what happen to me..

I

Would you be willing to sell me some of that stuff? I'd probably even pay full price for some 510 stuff and some good low-nicotine juice if you have it, provided I got a good shipping rate.

 

[Vaporista]

you're forgetting about all the other crap you buy when you stop at the local shop to buy cigs - gum, mints, softdrink, etc. I have found that cash is lasting a whole lot longer in my wallet these days and I suspect that if you factor that additional cost into the cost of smoking analogs, you'll see a different picture.

IMO, though, I am happy to pay a premium to vape rather than smoke - the health benefits for me and my family make the cost insignificant

No dearie, I didn't forget what the retailers call "Fast moving consumer goods" or "impulse purchases" which one has to eyeball and of course all those sweets laden cardboard cutouts you literally have to kick aside these days before you can find your way to the cashiers where the cigarettes reside in their own dedicated shrine behind or above the counters. Lets face it we all blew wads of cash on spur of the moment consumables. It is by nature almost impossible to just head for the store for a pack of cigarettes, but the costing I made was for a cigarette one versus a vaping one, I'm comparing tobacco leaves with tobacco leaves and the vaping accessories are mandatory to ecigs- batts, attys, charger, tips, juice. The rest of the rubbish you buy is unrelated to smoking and vaping. Those are incidentals. But I tell you something else-those of us who need to supplement our already expensive vaping habits still have to brave the convenience stores and supermarkets to buy our snus and snuff and we always end up buying the same rubbish anyway minus the cigarettes. So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you are one of the rare breed who can thrive on vaping alone (more than 6 weeks) without any form of tobacco supplementation- ie snus or snuff- then give yourself a hug because you are special. I'm talking about South Africa here folks, not the US of A where ordering online with next day delivery for all consumer goods is far more common. We're a bit behind in these parts in that respect.

 

[Vaporista]

IMO, though, I am happy to pay a premium to vape rather than smoke - the health benefits for me and my family make the cost insignificant

I almost just missed this last bit. I had to read it twice. Hell we are paying a massive premium here in these parts to enjoy vaping. It's the size of the premium that worries me. Maybe the money we spend on vaping and assessories could be put to other use so the family as a whole can actually benefit. You know buy the kid some new clothes or something. Or we could all just do stuyvesant snus, or we could just...quit. I have no idea why you are rambling on about "health benefits". Vaping, like smoking is an intrinsic selfish activity. We don't pass our ecigs around the family and say "hey go on, take a vape Marge"; "thanks" ; "er Junior you want the strawberry or the Habanero"
No, we jealously hoard our supplies and protect our ecigs from the grubby hands of everyone. If our significant others vape, they get their own stuff. True. but "health benefits" I don't quite know what these are. As I said in an earlier post any damage after years and years of tobacco smoking has already been done. It just hasn't manifested itself - if you are lucky. Yet. But vaping is not going to repair all the damage, and the jury is still out on whether the damage is worsened by inhaling PG, VG and nic and burning plastic or poly fibers. We just don't really know what we are vaping in the liquids. No. There are no health benefits in vaping. The only health benefit I can think of is by us quitting cigarettes we prevent further massive damage to ourselves and we make a healthier environment for all those around us who were exposed to second hand smoke.
Health benefits of vaping? Zilch. We do it in the hope that it is ok.

 

[Splat]

I almost just missed this last bit. I had to read it twice. Hell we are paying a massive premium here in these parts to enjoy vaping. It's the size of the premium that worries me. Maybe the money we spend on vaping and assessories could be put to other use so the family as a whole can actually benefit. You know buy the kid some new clothes or something. Or we could all just do stuyvesant snus, or we could just...quit. I have no idea why you are rambling on about "health benefits". Vaping, like smoking is an intrinsic selfish activity. We don't pass our ecigs around the family and say "hey go on, take a vape Marge"; "thanks" ; "er Junior you want the strawberry or the Habanero"
No, we jealously hoard our supplies and protect our ecigs from the grubby hands of everyone. If our significant others vape, they get their own stuff. True. but "health benefits" I don't quite know what these are. As I said in an earlier post any damage after years and years of tobacco smoking has already been done. It just hasn't manifested itself - if you are lucky. Yet. But vaping is not going to repair all the damage, and the jury is still out on whether the damage is worsened by inhaling PG, VG and nic and burning plastic or poly fibers. We just don't really know what we are vaping in the liquids. No. There are no health benefits in vaping. The only health benefit I can think of is by us quitting cigarettes we prevent further massive damage to ourselves and we make a healthier environment for all those around us who were exposed to second hand smoke.
Health benefits of vaping? Zilch. We do it in the hope that it is ok.

firstly, regarding the massive premium you refer to, it all depends on where you source your supplies. I have a mix of local, Chinese and UK stuff which was all very reasonably priced....you just have to plan ahead to make sure you don't leave it to the last minute. Shipping costs are not prohibitive and turnaround time max 2 weeks, which is manageable.
There ARE significant health benefits for those around us who are not having to live with secondary smoke and the smell/filth of tobacco smoking so vaping is not purely a selfish exercise. I agree that we don't know all the risks of vaping yet, but they can't be close to the myriad of diseases that a heavy smoker is at risk of developing. And yes, damage has been done over the past 20 years of smoking but the human body has an amazing ability to heal and regenerate. Loads of medical reports/papers have been written about the benefits after just 1 year of not smoking, let alone the next 20-30 years. It is not that the damage can be completely undone, it is just that you are not damaging your body in the same way going forward.

The same applies for any person who suffers a heart attack and then changes their lifestyle, exercise patterns, diet, etc...they feel better and the body handles the past damage more easily without having to keep fighting the bad habits at the same time.

Many people here, myself included, have experienced health improvements from vaping - ranging from increased taste and smell to having more energy, better breathing and so on. And that is not to mention the social benefits with not stinking of cigarette smoke all the time....

I smoked a pack a day (and often 2 packs when out on weekends) but I managed to switch easily and immediately to vaping - I haven't touched an analog since I first used my e-cig on 6 August. Only part of that was because of the supplementary function of e-cigs providing the nicotine, the other main part was the knowledge that I was not going to continue damaging my health in the same way as analogs would do and that I was also not going to continue exposing others around me to the harmful effects of MY habit.

To be completely honest, I enjoy vaping too much now to contemplate giving that up altogether, but I don't miss smoking at all

 

[Vaporista]

firstly, regarding the massive premium you refer to, it all depends on where you source your supplies. I have a mix of local, Chinese and UK stuff which was all very reasonably priced....you just have to plan ahead to make sure you don't leave it to the last minute. Shipping costs are not prohibitive and turnaround time max 2 weeks, which is manageable.
There ARE significant health benefits for those around us who are not having to live with secondary smoke and the smell/filth of tobacco smoking so vaping is not purely a selfish exercise. I agree that we don't know all the risks of vaping yet, but they can't be close to the myriad of diseases that a heavy smoker is at risk of developing. And yes, damage has been done over the past 20 years of smoking but the human body has an amazing ability to heal and regenerate. Loads of medical reports/papers have been written about the benefits after just 1 year of not smoking, let alone the next 20-30 years. It is not that the damage can be completely undone, it is just that you are not damaging your body in the same way going forward.

The same applies for any person who suffers a heart attack and then changes their lifestyle, exercise patterns, diet, etc...they feel better and the body handles the past damage more easily without having to keep fighting the bad habits at the same time.

Many people here, myself included, have experienced health improvements from vaping - ranging from increased taste and smell to having more energy, better breathing and so on. And that is not to mention the social benefits with not stinking of cigarette smoke all the time....

I smoked a pack a day (and often 2 packs when out on weekends) but I managed to switch easily and immediately to vaping - I haven't touched an analog since I first used my e-cig on 6 August. Only part of that was because of the supplementary function of e-cigs providing the nicotine, the other main part was the knowledge that I was not going to continue damaging my health in the same way as analogs would do and that I was also not going to continue exposing others around me to the harmful effects of MY habit.

To be completely honest, I enjoy vaping too much now to contemplate giving that up altogether, but I don't miss smoking at all

It's no question of going back to cigarettes. We all know by quitting these the obvious changes will be the improvements you mentioned.- better sense of smell, no second hand reeking, easier breathing etc. The question you are avoiding is what are the health benefits of Vaping?
You state:
IMO, though, I am happy to pay a premium to vape rather than smoke - the health benefits for me and my family make the cost insignificant

See we are not questioning any improvements in our health by quitting cigarettes. We take these for granted. However we are still at risk for lung cancer (many of us are) maybe twenty years down the line. Regardess of whether we quit now or not. We just don't know what damage we have wrecked upon ourselves.Would those improvements be better if we decided that since vaping is more expensive than smoking ever was, but no matter how much we enjoy it, let's just quit nicotine altogether?
Because truth be told, vaping is not just nicotine we are getting we are getting other stuff. But that is besides the point. I say if you have bags of money and you can afford to vape, well carry on. But I've discovered no matter how much I like vaping, it has become a chore and an expense I can live without. If vaping was cheaper as a lifestyle for South Africans then I would be all for it. But not at the prices we are paying as consumers. We are getting the most ripped off of all the countries vaping. and again NO NO NO we are not enjoying any more health benefits by vaping. We would enjoy them anyway without nicotine. we would enjoy health by not using any nicotine delivery device.

 

[Aucorium]

I was looking through the UK forums the other day and they were moaning about the prices locally (in the UK) of ecigs and the supplies, which I found ridiculous when you are paying 6 or 7 pounds for a pack of 20. It just has to be cheaper!

I think the biggest money suck when you are starting with ecigs is buying copious amounts of starter kits and making those wrong decisions - I have a good few regret purchases of my own in my newbie phase, once you have done some research and get into the swing of things it becomes a lot better.

Is it cheaper than smoking normal cigs? Not sure yet for me its probably costing about the same. I think people tend to horde ecig supplies like squirrels to give a comfort factor - like 1 spare atty isnt enough its like 10 so you have 9 backups, so start up costs natrually cost more but over time you probably save.

 

[P3rplexity]

You cant put a price on the years your gonna be adding to your life...



 

[Vaporista]

You cant put a price on the years your gonna be adding to your life...

We all like to think that, but as I said the Jury is still out on the vaping issue. We are all real life lab rats in the great Chinese Experiment in case you haven't noticed. The scientists are looking from afar at these forums with their white coats and clipboards and observing. The FDA alone has probably filled the local hospitals hernia wards with their own staffers. Ah. C'est la vie.

 

[Vaporista]

but over time you probably save.

Aye. Maybe. But it will be a long time here. If ever. Maybe when attys can steam along merrily after being subjected to all kinds of abuse for three months consistently. Maybe when dud batteries are a thing of the past and maybe when the whole e-experience drops in price. Then again if the Govments decide they are missing out on nicotine tax then we will all be screwed.

 

[e-pipeman]

We all like to think that, but as I said the Jury is still out on the vaping issue. We are all real life lab rats in the great Chinese Experiment in case you haven't noticed. The scientists are looking from afar at these forums with their white coats and clipboards and observing. The FDA alone has probably filled the local hospitals hernia wards with their own staffers. Ah. C'est la vie.

And from what we can observe it is likely that you will get more of la vie from vaping rather than smoking. Not doing either is an option, but there are people for whom abstinence from nicotine is not a healthy option. There's lots of info on the forum about the benefits and disadvantages of nicotine use - the search tool is your friend (and should be getting friendlier in the near future, we hope).

You might enjoy this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8614291

 

[traderblue]

Is it cheaper than smoking normal cigs? Not sure yet for me its probably costing about the same. I think people tend to horde ecig supplies like squirrels to give a comfort factor - like 1 spare atty isnt enough its like 10 so you have 9 backups, so start up costs natrually cost more but over time you probably save.

Yes, I agreed with you. I had false-start with ecig initially on Aug 2008 as I bought only one cheap quality starter-kit to test with no backup. As expected, once the 2 atty failed, I switched back to analog after 1 month later.
Then, on May 2009, the ecig usage feeling was rekindled inside me again after my wife complained about my nasty analog habit during our vacation in Thailand. So this time round, I was more determined than my last Aug failure, I calculated my 6 month cost of analogs requirement price amount and used them to purchased ONLY one type of ecig (DSE 801) instead of several after doing research here. I consolidated all my ecig requirement into a single model - DSE 801 based upon cost-effectiveness and pricing.
What surprises me was that, throughout the course of ecig usage, I was able to quit analog much faster and easier than initial thought. As unexpected, I discovered, I am loaded with much more ecig stuffs than needed when I learnt to DIY more stuffs along the way....Quite an interesting Quit-Smoking journey I had been thru..

.

 

[Splat]

@Vaporista - the key issue for me is that I have no intention of giving up on nicotine altogether, so there are huge health benefits in vaping i.e. I don't smoke. The benefits are everything that tobacco has that I am no longer exposing my body to. I am not saying that vaping is healthy in itself, it is just healthier than smoking (despite your concerns about the long-term effect, I personally don't believe it can be anywhere near as bad as tobacco).

I guess looking at it your way, the benefits are different for everyone, and are relative to their personal choices. If you, for example, still need to use tobacco products like snuff/snus to satisfy your cravings, the issue of whether to continue vaping on top of that is a very different one to my situation

 

[Doug_Dread]

My hobby is PC games and to indulge I know I must buy the games, keep my PC upgraded to play the latest etc. If vaping is to be a hobby/pastime, then you must spend what it takes to enjoy it and the cost comparison to smoking is irrelevant.

I don't intend to make it a hobby, vaping for me has 1 purpose only, to get me off smoking in a way that doesn't ask me to go head to head with my addiction, a fight I've lost many times before, over nearly 40 years. The value to me if I can achieve this, is priceless.

My vaping costs so far:
Twisp Stick + 20ml Twisp liquid = R1180
3 Twisp chargers; wall/USB; car/USB & battery = R190
30ml Cig-E liquid = R99
Total = R1469

My cigarettes cost me R753/month, so I shall recover my start-up costs in only 2 months.

Based on the last 3 weeks (actual 19 days), liquid usage of 30ml of liquid, I estimate 45ml/month = R150.

So at the end of month 3, I shall be about R300 in the green moneywise and without the cigarettes, in the pink healthwise. What a bargain!

A recent breakdown with my Stick caused a relapse to analogs for 3 days until I could go and exchange it for a new one. In hindsight, I now think it was just a dead battery which makes me feel a little foolish, but under Twisp's 3 month warrenty, they exchanged it anyway, no questions asked.

This episode made me consider a backup device by getting an M201 for R499 and with another month's R150 for liquid, should leave me in the green again by about R400 at the end of month 4. Thereafter, allowing for the occassional atty, I should be scoring R500/month. More, because that will be close to the annual sin-tax increase on cigarettes, which for once, will make me smile.

By then, tobacco should be long forgotten and vaping should be just low strength and great flavours for fun, not 'cause I have to. Circumstances could change, but that's my plan.

 

[Vaporista]

My hobby is PC games and to indulge I know I must buy the games, keep my PC upgraded to play the latest etc. If vaping is to be a hobby/pastime, then you must spend what it takes to enjoy it and the cost comparison to smoking is irrelevant.

I don't intend to make it a hobby, vaping for me has 1 purpose only, to get me off smoking in a way that doesn't ask me to go head to head with my addiction, a fight I've lost many times before, over nearly 40 years. The value to me if I can achieve this, is priceless.

My vaping costs so far:
Twisp Stick + 20ml Twisp liquid = R1180
3 Twisp chargers; wall/USB; car/USB & battery = R190
30ml Cig-E liquid = R99
Total = R1469

My cigarettes cost me R753/month, so I shall recover my start-up costs in only 2 months.

Based on the last 3 weeks (actual 19 days), liquid usage of 30ml of liquid, I estimate 45ml/month = R150.

So at the end of month 3, I shall be about R300 in the green moneywise and without the cigarettes, in the pink healthwise. What a bargain!

A recent breakdown with my Stick caused a relapse to analogs for 3 days until I could go and exchange it for a new one. In hindsight, I now think it was just a dead battery which makes me feel a little foolish, but under Twisp's 3 month warrenty, they exchanged it anyway, no questions asked.

This episode made me consider a backup device by getting an M201 for R499 and with another month's R150 for liquid, should leave me in the green again by about R400 at the end of month 4. Thereafter, allowing for the occassional atty, I should be scoring R500/month. More, because that will be close to the annual sin-tax increase on cigarettes, which for once, will make me smile.

By then, tobacco should be long forgotten and vaping should be just low strength and great flavours for fun, not 'cause I have to. Circumstances could change, but that's my plan.

Even the best laid plans go awry. Especially in your first days of being analog free. Your big mistake here is underestimating the amount of liquid you will actually need and over and above that you will be trying to find different flavours-even you admitted you haven't found
"the one" yet. You will be experimenting with different strengths to find yourself a happy medium. Heck even two months down the line I'm constantly trying different flavours because after a while one gets very bored. I used to like 555 but now I can't stand it. Liquids will be a big expense. The cheapest Dekang liquids in South Africa now are R45 Vat inclusive at Bogey.co.za for 10ml. I don't think there is a supplier here that has matched that yet. It's an excellent price. The other underestimation you have made is on your atty spend. I've already been through 3 attys on the Janty Stick. Remember with a higher voltage device you are burning the attys out quicker (not to mention you are vaping more juice than a penstyle too.) Yes the M201 is a good choice as a secondary device- it might even become your primary. Mine has replaced my Janty. But there is an atty supply problem at the moment for me so I've reverted to the trusty 801 penstyle.
In short you can project your costs, but I can all but guarantee that you will not save money over analogs here in SA unless the costs of e-cig consumables comes down.if you are a previous heavy smoker @ 20-30 full strength cigs per day. In fact, I'll make a bet with you, say a case of beer that by month 5 you will either have way overspent your target or you will no longer be vaping (PS. All bets are off if the US Congress passes the new law, because then the market will be flooded with cheap e-cigs for us)

 

[Doug_Dread]

Nothing is cast in stone but.................

different flavours-even you admitted you haven't found "the one" yet.

I had a major tasting session at Cig-E and I'm pretty sure "the one" doesn't exist, so I'll be sticking with his Virginia 24mg, not great but not offensive either and cheap, until I'm a safe distance from analogs. As to quantity, as mentioned, my estimate is based on 3 weeks actual usage of 25ml and I'm not holding back, I'm literally breathing my Stick most of the day.

The other underestimation you have made is on your atty spend. I've already been through 3 attys on the Janty Stick.

When did you buy your Stick? They give a 3 month warrenty, so I've not factored any replacement atty costs in the 1st 3 months.

In fact, I'll make a bet with you that by month 5 you will either have way overspent your target or you will no longer be vaping

Doubt the overspend over 5 months, since I have most of the hardware already, I just can't see how it's possible to exceed the R753/month I pay for analogs, just on juice and an atty or two. I'd be silly to bet on the 'no longer vaping' bit, as that is my intention. I suspect these devices will not last much longer than 6 months and will need replacement, thus pushing the costs back up, so when they pack up, likely so shall I.

 

[Aucorium]

If you want to save some money then here are my suggestions:

Order direct from China:
Juice is around R25-35 for 10m (including postage)
Starter kits are around R300 for a DSE801
Attys are around R60-70 each
Batteries about R80 each
Passthroughs (a real money saver) R80 - 120each

They accept paypal.

Also, if you dont need the high strength, mix down.

I am going for a "Stick V2" next, batteries are cheaper around R30-40 from China suppliers with a bigger voltage. There are adapters available for it for the 901 & 510 attys so I can cut down on spares for multiple devices (im standardising on the 510) and it also apparently takes "penstyle" attys.

 

[Doug_Dread]

Had another Twisp Stick breakdown. I suspect the atty hiccuped and unburned juice got into the electrics, causing the button to malfunction. Tried cleaning and leaving dismantled overnight in the hope it would dry out, but was still wobbly this morning.

So, screaming out for my fix, I charged off back to the Twisp dealer this morning who swapped out with a another body, atty and battery that work so well, I almost choked on the first vape, sounded like a steam iron when I pressed the button.

Twisp are expensive but they honour their warrenty without question, something that is paramount when dealing with essentially low quality electronic devices. Had they not stood by me, it would have cost me a fortune so far. They even let me keep the old atty so I could experiment with cleaning and revamping it.

So, going into month 2 and having bought another 40ml liquid, I'm still R259 in the vaping red. Plus, I really need that 2nd back-up device in case of breakdowns, but should still be on track to go into the green by month 4.

 

[Vaporista]

Good going Doug, I got tired of the burnt taste of the fillings in the stick, even though I fill with liquid the poly stuff still gets cooked- even one strand will burn and I can't stand that. It's a good vape and I'd still say the best 3.7 v device available- but it's not consistent enough for me.
I'll use it occasionally now. It got me off analogs though.
I prefer the M201 now and recently I am over the moon with the 4081 with the massive cartomisers which I refill from my stash of over 300ml of different liquids mostly 24mg and 36mg. The 36mg will give a harsh throat hit. For your second device look at the 4081 with cartomisers at ECS or the M201 at vaping101.
A case of beer says that you will not be in the green by the end of month 4 (if you are completely analog free)