The high cost of vaping. Better not to start or even quit?

[Splat]

That "certain Cape Town retailer" actually helped me achieve my financial goal, I bought my Stick from their Gauteng agent for an admittedly high price, but their 3 month warranty allowed me to exchange 3 faulty Stick bodies, half a dozen dead atties and a dud batt at no extra cost.

3 things come to mind....
1. it's great that the dealer honoured the 3 month warranty without giving you uphill
2. it's sad that it was necessary to invoke the warranty 3 times....
3. why does this retailer only offer a 3 month warranty when the product originators (both Chinese manufacturer/suppliers and Dutch distributor) offer a 6 month warranty on the very same products

 

[Doug_Dread]

3 things come to mind....
1. it's great that the dealer honoured the 3 month warranty without giving you uphill
2. it's sad that it was necessary to invoke the warranty 3 times....
3. why does this retailer only offer a 3 month warranty when the product originators (both Chinese manufacturer/suppliers and Dutch distributor) offer a 6 month warranty on the very same products

1. The Cape Town retailer may have given me uphill, I don't know, but the core business of the agent I bought from is not e-cigs and they value their service and rep far more than looking after the CT retailer's interests. They just hand all returned stuff to the CT retailer's Gauteng distributor, so returns are not their problem.

2. Once may have been my ignorance in not recogising the problem to be a dud batt, but the other 2 were definitely valid, a faulty button and a refusal to charge. The failure of Chinese goods does not surprise me at all, I have zero confidence in their quality.

3. The CT retailer is shrewd and balances what he charges for the warranty (built into his higher prices), and the losses he will incur as a result of the warranty. Every business has to do this. However, 3 months is not long and the ethics of charging a substantially higher price than, and giving a shorter warranty than his supplier are highly questionable. In the South African context though, I know a supplier who gives only 1 month warranty on generic Chinese products, and one of his dealers, who has reduced the warranty on atties, to 2 weeks.

Bottom line, we are buying unregulated devices of questionable quality and reliability and are going to get the losses in the industry passed down to us, the end users. Plus, the costs are balanced to be (theoretically) just a little lower than smoking to attract desperate addicts trying to give up smoking and bare no relation to the neglibable cost of production e.g. the Chinese sell PG for $1000/metric ton, or about $1(R8)/litre. We buy it, with some Nic and flavour added, for between R5000 and R12500 /litre.

Addicts get screwed, live with it.

 

[Splat]

3. The CT retailer is shrewd and balances what he charges for the warranty (built into his higher prices), and the losses he will incur as a result of the warranty. Every business has to do this. However, 3 months is not long and the ethics of charging a substantially higher price than, and giving a shorter warranty than his supplier are highly questionable. In the South African context though, I know a supplier who gives only 1 month warranty on generic Chinese products, and one of his dealers, who has reduced the warranty on atties, to 2 weeks.

I have no problem with suppliers offering very short warranties on these products...I too expect failure and poor QC. What really irks me, however, is the bold comment above. I will name names.....Janty offers a 6 month warranty on all hardware. Heaven-Gifts and Health Cabin offer a 6 month warranty on the Joye products they sell direct (i.e. the unbranded Janty stick, etc). Twisp, the South African importer for Janty products (and there is a link to the Twisp website from Jantyworld.com) only offer a 3 month warranty.

They do not pay extra for the warranty and I would expect that they receive the same warranty from Janty as the rest of the Janty clients receive....so why should we get screwed with a shorter warranty at a premium price????

 

[Aucorium]

e.g. the Chinese sell PG for $1000/metric ton, or about $1(R8)/litre. We buy it, with some Nic and flavour added, for between R5000 and R12500 /litre.
Addicts get screwed, live with it.

I actually mix up my own zero nic now using straight PG & Menthol crystals, I kid you not if it costs me R2 to make 10ml it is a lot, I get 100ml of PG for R8 from my local pharmacy.

I am planning on importing some Lorann flavouring now so I will be able to use that with my PG, especially as the customs guys are trying to put tobacco duty on my zero nic liquids because they smell like a tobacco product.

 

[stephenrowley]

PG is cheap, nicotine is not so cheap, you can certainly buy all the chemicals that make up liquid e, however there are some hidden charges and risks you may not be aware of.

In order to get those low prices on PG you would most likely need to buy one metric ton, then you would also need to find a trust worthy supplier that can supply you with the nicotine and another supplier to provide you with the flavours, then you have to have them shipped to you , the best price we have ever got with a Door to Door courier China to SA is R80 per KG (1000kg x R80), then you also need to add the VAT and Duties plus make sure you have an importers code and a non explosive report supplied by the manufacturer for the nicotine to be transported, also take into consideration it may get stolen or worst taken by customs in Honk Kong, if you lucky enough to have it arrive in South Africa, you may find that customs sometimes open sealed bottles of course not 10ml but rather the 1L or 2L bottles and they do not always seal them back up properly resulting in wet box with an empty bottle in side and you short of stock.

Once it is here you would also need to get all the correct equipment to mix it, as to much of this and to little of that and presto you back to stage one, also if you buying pure nicotine you run the risk of spilling the nicotine or worst getting it all over you, seen as you would most likely be buying 150mg or above strength nicotine to dilute it with the large amounts of PG you have, you could end up in the hospital having a pulmonary embolism followed by general organ failure, seizures, asphyxiation and ultimately a cardiac arrest.

Then you will need to dig deep to find a market for this large stock pile as it would never be used by the time its shelf life expires, so you decide in order to make a profit and sell all the stock before it expires you will need to invest about R80,000 for a one page ad in a news paper of which you will only sell about 40 bottles as news paper ad responses are so low, then you discover that if you had contacted ECS you could have bought it for R30 bottle, saved your self a small fortune, nicotine poisoning and a major headache.

Which all translates into about R3.75 a pack of cigarettes, not bad for a days work.

Give me a call sometime..if you have many e smoker friends you could start making a profit the easy way

 

[stephenrowley]

I will be honest with you all, the manufacturer usually offers a one year warranty for the battery and a 3 to 6 month warranty on the atomizers, you will discover that many suppliers in SA do not ever send them back to the manufactures for replacements, well as least I speak for myself, the reason is that it cost so much to ship them back and you still in some cases need to to pay import duties and vat when they arrive in China as the manufacturer will not pay these costs, then you still need to have the replacements shipped back at your own expense and then pay VAT and Duties a second time, seen as most atomizers have a life span of 3 to 4 weeks you will need to send 6 atomizers back to China per person or user,then there is also the cost of shipping the replacement atomizer to the user say six times in a six month period and paying for the cost of shipping the broken atomizer from the user back to you to send to China, before long you look at your bank account and wonder what you are doing in this business..no joking weeee do make a profit sometime but as you maybe able to see the price that you pay and the price of replacements plus business running costs such as rent, salaries, sales reps, commission, stationery, telephones, websites, advertising, taxes, transportation, copywriters, marketing material, accountants, monthly sales promos etc need to be added into the sale price to make it worthy business, before long you need to be selling in excess of two thousand units a month just to break even.

This post is by no means a dig at the consumer or an attack on the consumer but merely a view from the other side.

 

[Esig]

@ Vaporista

Holy .... man I hope this sorry excuse for a human being is not posting on this forum anymore I don't know if it's a he or a she or an "IT" but this being is enough to make anybody want to get in your car and drive to Cape Town and kick the holy .... of of them why do they even allow someone like that to post on this forum and I really don't give a .... if I get kicked off after this post but man you are just a big .......*ing pain in the ... not even my ex wife complained that much and I left the B**ch, I feel sorry for anybody close to you who the hell gives a .... what is going to happen in 20 years time maybe - hopefully you get run over by a bus long before that. You stated that you have been e-cig free so get the hell out of our lives and find something to do other than criticizing vaping. I'm new to this forum and unluckily for me I started reading the South African group posts and please people not all of our South African Vapors or people in general is such a pain in the backside than this person. I don't usually get angry quickly but enough is enough someone should have put you in your place a long time ago. So if this is my last post at least I got that out of my system and all you other vapors out there enjoy vaping more than you enjoyed smoking who the hell cares what the consequences of vaping is we always knew what smoking was doing to us and that never stopped us but from the first time I started vaping I stopped using analogs. Vaping RULES!!!!

 

[Doug_Dread]

Relax Esig, this fight was fought long ago and V hasn't posted recently, no sense in getting banned over historical events mate.

As for posting about bad consequences, this forum promotes everything about vaping to be shared and that includes the good and the bad. If someone has a really bad experience, I want to know about it and be warned. As much as I love vaping, I've had at least one very bad experience and shared it here for the information of others, so bits of your description above could apply to me and plenty other members too.

 

[Esig]

Relax Esig, this fight was fought long ago and V hasn't posted recently, no sense in getting banned over historical events mate.

As for posting about bad consequences, this forum promotes everything about vaping to be shared and that includes the good and the bad. If someone has a really bad experience, I want to know about it and be warned. As much as I love vaping, I've had at least one very bad experience and shared it here for the information of others, so bits of your description above could apply to me and plenty other members too.

Sorry Doug_Dread I did not mean it in that way was just getting angry at V that just could not stop I mean it's one thing educating someone but it's completely a different thing hitting them with the book over the head time after time!! I must have missed the post on your bad experience please direct me to that if you don't mind. I also like to keep informed about these things but like I said don't hit me with the book

 

[martha1014]

I realize the cost of doing business (my husband also has an internet business selling other products) but if we can order atomizers from China with a 6 month warranty you know suppliers also get a warranty. You can mail 1000s of atomizers back to China at a reasonable price. It would also boost sales if a supplier offered some kind of warranty. I shop around and will buy from those offering warranty rather than those who don't.

If I would just settle for one ecig (that works) and just buy replacement atomizer, batteries and juice I would be saving a fortune. But most of us think we have to have one of everything and end up spending more than we should. I have about 25 510 units, 5 mods, 30 atomizers and enough eliquid to last me 2 years yet I keep on buying. I find other members of this forum do the same thing.

 

[Tamakachi]

Get a Janty Stick, the batteries are invincible, the atomizers last 3 months + and get some well priced liquids. I got my Deep forest liquids on bidorbuy R20 per bottle (awesome stuff!)

Had this ecig for 3 months now, saved over R1000 already so uhm yeah.
Get a proper Manual ecig with standardized battery (mine looks like a AAA battery)

 

[showmethevapa]

it costs me slightly over a dollar a day vs ten bucks for a pack of cigs
it's a good deal for me, oh and plus i can run around without the fear of passing out.

 

[Doug_Dread]

Vaping would be hugely cheaper than smoking if only we could find the Holy Grail of e-cigs; an e-cig that gives fabulous flavour, huge vapour and 100% reliability.

My Twisp (Janty) Stick has many advantages but suffers from unreliable bodies (swopped out the body 3 times in the 3 month warranty period), and is very low on flavour. The flavour can be improved by converting to a 510 or fitting an M201 atomiser, but not enough.

My Smoore M201 is a flavour king and after using it, I can't vape the Stick anymore. However, the bulletproof old-design parts are no longer available and the new-design is horribly unreliable, eating expensive batteries and atomisers at an alarming rate.

Others I've tried and given up on are the 801 penstyle, the 510 in various forms and the J118.

So, has anyone found the Holy Grail e-cig?

 

[BartS]

DD, The Holy Grail of vaping differs for me from week to week. Sometimes it even lasts a bit longer than a week. For this reason I bought a whole bunch of different atties, and a few devices.

At the moment, the closest for me is the EM-Riva with a 510 Cartomizer. No atty cleaning. Just open the top and add 20 drops when the empty taste starts to pop out its ugly head. With the Riva battery life, and usb charging, it means I carry one full device and a backup battery to work, and it does it for me. (At the moment).

When I hit the high stress levels, I pop on a LR510 atty, and knock my pants off.

The cartomizer took some getting use to, but once I got the whole thing, I quite enjoy them. Just so much less effort.

As said previously, if you as me in two weeks time the whole set-up might have changed, but this one is the longest one running so far.

 

[Nomdo]

At the moment, the closest for me is the EM-Riva with a 510 Cartomizer. No atty cleaning. Just open the top and add 20 drops when the empty taste starts to pop out its ugly head. With the Riva battery life, and usb charging, it means I carry one full device and a backup battery to work, and it does it for me. (At the moment).

Doug, I agree with you on the Smoore stuff - too unreliable
Then I moved on to the DSE905 - was just OK - I don't like the 901 attys

Now I'm also using an Joye eGo (agreed, Bart) with 510 atty, LR 510 atty & Mega 510 atty. I even have the New Mega XL eGo atty and cartos -don't like them much.

I prefer dripping in the Mega 510 atty the best. The first two eGo batts lasted just over a month, then died - So it is far from Doug's "holy grail"

 

[BartS]

Why do you not like the Mega XL eGo atty and cartos? I have not tried them, but heard rumours that they are quite leaky?

 

[Nomdo]

Bart, about the Mega XL atty:
1. Well it is is Huge - as in the same size as the std eGo battery complete body.
2. its a juice monster, for the same or less vapour and throat hit as std 510 atty
3. You need to take longer inhales than on the 510/510 mega atty, almost as if the volatage on the eGo is just not enough
4. I don't like the taste of the vape from the XL atty - maybe I haven't "broken in" the atty.
5. I don't like the wide mouth piece - (I see I can get the conical version now)
6. Yes, it leaks juice
7. did I say it is huge?
8. it Gurgles (maybe due to wicking "too well")

Plus point: It wicks well, maybe too well if using "thin" pure PG juice, which leads to leaking....
I think i'll start using it in the car to prevent the dripping and driving temptation

The Mega XL cartos: I was under the impression that they were pre-filled - wrong! (As ordered from eciggies.co.za)
You need a syringe and needle to fill it - I'm not that kind of junkie, so I don't have syringe/needles lying around in my house, or anywhere else.
Eventually I bought the needle and syringe, but haven't tried filling it.

I stand by the 510 Mega atty (thats the extended std atty) as my favourite (with a 901 whistle tip mothpiece). I'm not particularly fond of the 510 std carto's either. I also don't really like steve rowley's "4082" cartos = 510 cartos, maybe i just dislike cartos.(??) - the carto's gets too hot and burn my lips.

I like the taste of the greensmoke cartos, but the kit & cartos are too bloody expensive, and the batteries are pathetic. Greensmoke Carto's are useless if you try to refill them - draw becomes very difficult and almost no vapour.

At some point in time I had a 4081/NJOY NPRO/Super mini - dripping on the atty was great with a USB PT, but the batts sucked with the 4 sec cut off time and kept on dying (juice in to batt I think), But alas the atty and PT eventually died.

Please let me know if you stumble upon a great device....

 

[IndieVisible]

I think if one wanted and shopped around you could turn a 2 pack a day ($16 in NYS) analog habit in to about a $2 a day vaping habit. Of course you could also not shop around, make mistakes, learn the hard way and your initial start up cost will take longer to make up.

 

[Nomdo]

I think if one wanted and shopped around you could turn a 2 pack a day ($16 in NYS) analog habit in to about a $2 a day vaping habit. Of course you could also not shop around, make mistakes, learn the hard way and your initial start up cost will take longer to make up.

Without shopping around here (South Africa), 2 packs of twenty a day will cost only ~$6
Vaping works out at $2/day, without much added for paying back theinitial investment of the starter kit. Hence the (relatively) high cost of vaping.

 

[l3oertjie]

Ok, I think the cost of replacing attys is very high and they certainly do not deliver as they should.

I came up with this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/atomizer-mods/120072-atomizer-cartomizer-life.html

Suddenly the high cost of vaping for me has dramatically decreased. Well.... for the past 3 months now.... lol