The other 80%

[Arnie H]

So it seems that around 20% of adults over 18 smoke cigarettes. Which means electronic cigarette companies are only targeting a small percentage of the potential consumer base.

Now, I am not advocating vaping being pushed to the 80% non-smoking population (at least not until we know that vaping is 100% safe or at least reasonably safe over the long term and more data is available).

But I'd like to see 100% zero nicotine disposables (not to mention better quality ones) and better flavor options more readily available for adults of legal smoking age who are seriously considering taking up smoking real cigarettes. so that they may more easily opt to vape instead, without the worries of nicotine addiction. Simply vaping to enjoy the flavor and hobbyist aspects of e-cigs.

For the most part, most of the disposables you see are either regular or menthol and all contain nicotine. For many people, this is their first impression of e-cigs. What else can we do to make vaping a more appealing and better option for those adults who are curious about vaping? So that they do not opt to smoke instead.

 

[shakeytails]

I don't think zero nic is a good option at this point in time. Since our stuff is targeted at ADULTS, we don't need antz saying that we're targeting the kiddos with fruit flavors and such.

 

[SissySpike]

Its a slippery slope when and if they start targeting non smokers. Then you have adds mostly aimed at younger folks and its a big old slimy can of worms I dont thing we want to open.
Let the Tobacco company's hook'em and the vaping company will save them. I think its working just fine.
Im sure as time goes on and we get more and more vapors and BT starts putting a serious effort in to our world things will change and probably not for the better.

BTW if its 20% of the US Vaping then most of those people have SO or friend whoes a non smoker who might enjoy 0 nic vaping for one reason or another so then wed be up to 30 ever 40% Granted this is hypothetical but I dont think we need to target non smokes.

 

[Arnie H]

Not talking about targeting children. No! No! Just saying making it a better more viable option for adults of legal smoking age who would otherwise take up smoking. Improve the quality of the disposables, give people more options, etc.

Thanks for the reply. It's 20% of the population that smokes cigarettes I, don't know the percentage that vapes. Does anyone have some figures for that?

 

[SissySpike]

Not talking about targeting children. No! No! Just saying making it a better more viable option for adults of legal smoking age who would otherwise take up smoking. Improve the quality of the disposables, give people more options, etc.

Thanks for the reply. It's 20% of the population that smokes cigarettes I, don't know the percentage that vapes. Does anyone have some figures for that?

I know you did not mean children but most likely if your in your mid 20s and not a smoker your not going to start so the target market for non smoking vapors would be 18-25 I would think.
My hypo 20% of pop vapors just shows if every smoker suddenly turns in to a vapor then they all have family and friends who might like 0 nick vaping so you still dont need to target non smoking vapors to the market they will be attracted for an entirely different reason. To be included in the activity's of a loved one. My wife Vapes chocolate because the real stuff gives her a migraine. But these people will find their own way for their own reason.

To be honest I think it would be great if all of the smokers turned to Vaping tomorrow and no one new started then in 60 years nicotine addiction would just be a thing of the past.

 

[TyPie]

Let the Tobacco company's hook'em and the vaping company will save them. I think its working just fine.

I love this response.....just PERFECT! (Good one, Buzz.)

 

[stevegmu]

I don't think I know anyone who started smoking as an adult.

 

[Kweb]

People who start drinking in their 20s or 30s start smoking later... Target non-smokers in bars- I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[mare ze dotes]

I don't think I know anyone who started smoking as an adult.

Aint that the truth. I never thought about it that deeply as I am a lifelong smoker and so are many family members. I can say that it is less and less as I grow older and watch the generation behind me.

 

[fourtytwo]

When I started smoking, I did not plan on it. It just kinda happened.

I didn't make the decision to start smoking and study the various brands.
Are there really those who wake up one day and say to themselves "Hmmmm... Maybe I should take up smoking..."

 

[stevegmu]

People who start drinking in their 20s or 30s start smoking later... Target non-smokers in bars- I don't see anything wrong with that.

Oddly, I don't think I know anyone who started drinking in their 20's or 30's, either.

 

[Thrasher]

we did it for the buzz, stole dads smokes, then it was i just want another one one day and pow....


we have had 0 nic cigs in the past and noone wants them the nic is the reason we keep smoking.

as soon as you market something like this it will be seen as an attempt to gateway people into something more. now an established brand that also offers a range say 24 to 0 would be ok.

and looking around when im out i think its waaay more then 20%

 

[bikerbeagle]

Not talking about targeting children. No! No! Just saying making it a better more viable option for adults of legal smoking age who would otherwise take up smoking. Improve the quality of the disposables, give people more options, etc.

The vast majority of people who "take up smoking" are young adults and "children" between the ages of 15 and 25, with the vast majority of those being under 18, even though they aren't legally able to buy cigarettes. It is actually very UN-common for someone to start smoking past the age of 25 (I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just saying that is not the trend).

By and large, people do not "take up smoking" as a conscious choice, it is typically environmental - either they were raised around it by their parents or they are introduced to it by their peer social network; therefore, it is unlikely that anyone "taking up smoking (nicotine)" would consciously choose to "take up vaping (non-nicotine)" instead.

The danger of marketing vaping non-nicotine juice to non-smokers is that it is VERY easy to introduce nicotine into the same system. This makes it a VERY real probability that vaping would become the gateway to smoking cigarettes, rather than the option to avoid them.

 

[SissySpike]

we did it for the buzz,

Ive never even been in the same room with you! Dont be blaming me for your habits! ;-)

 

[Arnie H]

Let the Tobacco company's hook'em and the vaping company will save them. I think its working just fine.

This response I simply do not agree with. Let the Tobacco company's hook'em? Of course that is what they've been doing for years. And for lots of people, particularly those who have been smoking for a very long time, by the time they switch to vaping, if they ever do switch, the damage to their lungs and their health has already been done. Your response suggests some sort of weird synergy or something with the tobacco companies. I think we need to be more proactive than that.

But if you've been smoking a long time and have developed COPD [(or, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)], which includes chronic bronchitis or emphysema, the lungs never totally heal. Chronic bronchitis is an inflammation of the airway. Some of that inflammation can be reversed. But if the inflammation has led to scarring of the walls of the airway, some of that cannot. Emphysema is a disease in which the walls of the fine air sacs of the lung — the place where the lung does its business of exchanging oxygen for carbon dioxide — break down. So tiny little air sacs become bigger ones — and they're less efficient in transporting oxygen. The lung can't grow new walls for these air sacs. The lung loses tiny blood vessels and can't grow new ones. So that's permanent.

Read more: Is the Damage from Smoking Permanent? - TIME

 

[Arnie H]

The danger of marketing vaping non-nicotine juice to non-smokers is that it is VERY easy to introduce nicotine into the same system. This makes it a VERY real probability that vaping would become the gateway to smoking cigarettes, rather than the option to avoid them.

We've heard this argument before with regard to drugs and it is really not completely true. Just because a teen experiments with them does not mean it will be a gateway to harder drugs. Doesn't mean they'll become junkies and such.

But I agree most people start smoking in their teens, so really the idea of banning e-cigs sales to minors (while I agree with it), is just politics. It never stopped us from gettting cigs, drugs, alcohol, and you name it when we were teens. If kids want to get it, they will get it. If they want to try it, there gonna try it. That is the nature of the beast. But at least if there were some zero nic vaping options, who knows. It could save lives.

 

[mol]

Love vaping but do not wish a nic addiction on anyone

 

[bhswmc01]

Agree with this 10000000%. I love that my husband got me to start vaping, but I hate that he's doing it too. He's a former smoker, but had quit before we met 13 years ago. I wish I could go back in time and slap my 14-year old self up side the head. LOL

Love vaping but do not wish a nic habit on anyone

 

[Tempus Fugit]

I'm not sure which market the OP's 20% is referring to, maybe that's in the US. The US is still a pretty small percentage of the world vaping community even though it has exploded in the last couple of years. You know the cig companies are shipping boatloads of tobacco products over seas on a constant basis, so their customer base is still enormous. Plus, I have seen articles talking about how Altria (Phillip Morris' parent company) is trying to throw their hat in the e-cig ring. I suspect that they will probably have more funding than all the mom and pop e-cig/e-juice vendors in the United States put together, so just as soon as they start going full swing, the fun will begin. Imagine how many future vapers will go straight to their e-cigs and juice from their tobacco products! I suppose their scientists are already deciding which paint solvents, nuclear sludge, and tobacco sweeping by-products they will add to keep people even more addicted, and of course ruin the whole clean-vaping experience we all know and love.

Obviously we will be bombarded with TV ads, and until it is outlawed, magazines, online, radio, and however else they can project their products into our brains. I know everyone has already seen the Blu commercials from Lorillard telling us to "take our freedom back". If history repeats itself, we will soon see a new kid-attractive character to draw in children while they deny all malfeasance. Supplying zero nic wouldn't do them much good for hooking people, unless of course all the other stuff they add can successfully addict. Although, it might be a great way for them to rack up new vapers who never smoked, especially if it has SOMETHING in it that will make them keep coming back. Just the ad campaign will probably make it "cool" in the mainstream too.

Yes, this is a very pessimistic view of the future vaping landscape, but I'm in a bad mood today. The scary thing is, it is a possible reality. We just can't let that happen.

 

[rolygate]

Zero-nic disposables are a good idea, in theory, but things aren't always as simple as they look.

Vendors will tell you that zero-nic disposables are about the worst-selling item they ever stocked, and sit on the shelf for years till they are binned. They'll never stock them again after that.

Nicotine: there is a valid argument that about 20% of the population need to supplement their dietary nicotine in order to function at 100%. If this is the case, then perhaps a better solution might be to find ways to provide that supplementation without the health risks of smoking. For ex-smokers, vaping seems a reasonable way to do that, though perhaps for never-smokers a different method might be better, such as nutritional supplement pills. There has been very little research on this area because of the taboo surrounding nicotine, but it is a worthwhile area of research for public health once the ideology is left behind - because if people can obtain nicotine, if they need it, without ever starting to smoke, then that is a massive win as nicotine is essentially harmless under those circumstances - for example it is not associated with cancer or heart disease. Some people need high-dose supplementation of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3), a similar compound, some of whose effects are identical; they might be the same people who need nicotine (and vice-versa).

Currently there is no evidence that nicotine is dependence-creating ('addictive'), when consumed pure and in low strengths compared to smoking, as there is no published clinical trial of the effects of nicotine administered to humans who are never-smokers. There is probably more support for the opposite case (though anecdotal), that it is not dependence-forming in and of itself, because there may have been cases where nicotine has been supplied to subjects who were never-smokers and no potential for dependence was observed; but since this was not done within a clinical trial it cannot be regarded as evidence. Because of this (and other reasons) people like Prof Killeen say that nicotine is not addictive, the dependence is caused by interaction with the MAOIs (or, the freebasing / synergens / assorted additives / pyrolytic compounds) in cigarette smoke.

For example any statement such as "nicotine is fiercely addictive", or "nicotine is more addictive than H or coke" (both seen recently) are simply wrong. Smoking may be (and nicotine dependence after smoking may be) but that is a different matter. It is presumed that some sort of chemical change occurs in the brain after smoking.

So although there is huge resistance to the concept that nicotine is a virtually harmless dietary ingredient, that is a more accurate statement than others that describe it as addictive or harmful. Keep in mind that many dietary ingredients are toxic/fatal in high quantity, and some can also be dependence-creating (like vitamin A or its precursors). Of course I'm not trying to promote nic, just adding some perspective: basically it's not something to worry about except when delivered in cigarette smoke.