Nicotine Tolerance, hows does it differ in vaping and smoking.

[United States]

I too smoked more as I went from full, to lights then ultralights. But over time the ultralight was normal and my smoking went back to normal. I learned if I smoked say, 30 ultralights then tried to reduce the number by increasing back up to lights I still smoked 30. The idea was to stop smoking 30. It took willpower and purposeful changes.

In my younger days I smoked 2 packs in an 8 hour work day. That equates to an average of about 1 every 12 minutes. I used to wonder how the heck one could even do that. So one day I checked my watch each time I lit up and put it out.

Ok, so I know that. Now how can I put forth a plan of one every 15 minutes? 30? 60? I'm down from that to 8-10 in an 8 hour day depending on the day. Sometimes even less. And yeah, sometimes more. But no more 40... Or 30, or even 20 now.

I vape 2-3ml a week at 3ml of nic. The Zenith tanks I use provide plenty of steam in an MTL drag and duplicate my ultralight cigarettes easily-puff wise. So as habits get replaced I feel pretty confident the Zenith will provide that satisfying throat hit I'm psycologically hooked on.

One thing that surprised me was choice of drip tip. Yes the tip. Once I found the device I liked, the atomizer that provides the satisfying production and now the tip....it's just a matter of time now. The Aspire Nautilis 2 tip has made a big difference in trying to find that little something missing and "woomp dair it is" lol.

 

[vapdivrr]

I too smoked more as I went from full, to lights then ultralights. But over time the ultralight was normal and my smoking went back to normal. I learned if I smoked say, 30 ultralights then tried to reduce the number by increasing back up to lights I still smoked 30. The idea was to stop smoking 30. It took willpower and purposeful changes.

In my younger days I smoked 2 packs in an 8 hour work day. That equates to an average of about 1 every 12 minutes. I used to wonder how the heck one could even do that. So one day I checked my watch each time I lit up and put it out.

I'm down from that to 8-10 in an 8 hour day depending on the day. Sometimes even less. And yeah, sometimes more. But no more 40... Or 30, or even 20 now.

I vape 2-3ml a week at 3ml of nic.

.

Your still smoking, but only vaping 3mls a week of 3mg nic in a mtl tank? Have you tried higher nic? That just doesn't seem right, wanting or trying to quit cigs, but only vaping that amount of juice and nic...seems like you need alot more nic imo. Or is your post just an example of how one might look at things?

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[Letitia]

Oh yes it's the first thing people mention when I tell them about vaping, "isn't there still nicotine in those?" Forget all those carcinogens but nic is what they think of...even vapors, like you said, they smoke cigs for 40 years and now immediately think of reducing. Personally imo, I would venture to say that inhaling the larger amounts of the other chemicals in eliquid, are probably more dangerous then the actual nic. Then you have the difference of, what's really better, vaping high amounts of juice with low amounts of nic, or visa versa? i dont really know, but imo vaping 10, 20 or more mls of juice a day seems worse then vaping 5 or less with higher nic amounts. but nic is the addictive substance, so I can understand why people think this.

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I just couldn't get a satisfying lung hit with mtl, I don't think I'm alone in this. I also prefer multi wire coils which pretty much requires more af. Isn't it wonderful that such an effective smoking cessation option is so customizable!

 

[United States]

Your still smoking, but only vaping 3mls a week of 3mg nic in a mtl tank? Have you tried higher nic? That just doesn't seem right, wanting or trying to quit cigs, but only vaping that amount of juice and nic...seems like you need alot more nic imo. Or is your post just an example of how one might look at things?

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I'm not trying to replace one addiction to another. Yeah, I tried higher nic. But it didn't solve the problem of hand to mouth, between the fingers and the aroma of a lit cigarette (among other things). I still smoked. One day I bought one of those cig-a-like devices and filled it with 35ml salt nic. I smoked anyway. And by sundown felt asthsmatic. I gave it away on day two.

I tried direct lung and coughed my fool head off everytime. Nope, MTL with a little nicotine is fine. And Zenith tanks with 1.6 ohm coils produce a great amout of steam while sipping on the sauce.

I only charge my Kroma or Rover X once a week as well. Each has about 75% remaining. When I was using a Legend 100, I recharged it at 80% after 3 weeks. My power hungry YiHi on the other hand is down to about 50% at weeks end.

Swapping habits, for example the after dinner after sundown smoking is out. First cigarette of the day is now at a much later time of day. Stuff like that.

I have stopped a few bad habits through changing habits. I don't need more nicotine in my vape juice. Others may, but I don't. If I'm stuck in the office for weeks at a time I don't smoke at all. Not until after work. I will smoke on my lunch break only. Yet when I'm in the field I smoke, smoke, smoke. It's not the nicotine that's my issue. Not at all. But I do know my body wants it at times.

Oh, and I only take 3 or 4 small drags from a cigarette. Sometimes not enough to exhale any smoke. They typically burn up or go out while holding them. So "drags per day" might be less than 100 these days. And I take small drags from my vapes.

 

[mcclintock]

even still, it doesnt make sense. Every addictive drug I know will make you want and need more and more of it as time goes on using it. which in cigarettes case that exact thing happens. In vaping it doesn't. If nicotine is a drug and especially if it's an addictive one it doesnt make sense to me. I know theres more addictive chemicals in cigarettes than vaping but the fact that theres still one of them in vaping should still result in wanting more and more over time instead of the opposite, even if to not as great of an extent.

The problem with that is nicotine is a very limited drug in what it can do for you and does tend to be self limiting for that reason. I managed to keep it to a pack a day and was only drawn towards more when bored or sitting around too much. That could have increased tolerance if I let it happen, but as it was I was getting an excess of nic if anything. And that was with the extra addictiveness of whole tobacco alkaloids and varying additives (the primary function of which is to make strong nicotine more tolerable -- that paper someone posted claimed more, but their chemical list includes a lot of anti-inflammatories, analgesics and anesthetics).

At some point after switching I realized I never liked nicotine that much and cut it to about 1/3 almost overnight.

 

[Vapntime]

I gave up cigarettes because I could 'feel' the damage each one was doing (had a bad liver and crohns at the time)
I did notice a decline in mental health though at the time. Also, I would still crave a cigarette under certain conditions many years after giving up.

When ecigs first showed up I did some research into nicotine and was pleasantly surprised. I started vaping and noticed there where definitely benefits for my mental 'health'. There is nothing wrong with being dependent on a considerably safe drug for positive outcomes. Many pharmaceutical drugs are 'addictive' but taken at a similar dose for the same ailment over time, can dramatically increase someone's quality of life and only have a negligible effect on their physical health. However, there may be complications due to other factors.

There has been so many scare campaigns over time that we forget that 'drugs' are one of the largest reasons we can have quality and length of life at this stage in history.

Nicotine: It may have a good side - Harvard Health
Beneficial effects of nicotine. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine Itself Isn't The Real Villain

 

[vapdivrr]

I just couldn't get a satisfying lung hit with mtl, I don't think I'm alone in this. I also prefer multi wire coils which pretty much requires more af. Isn't it wonderful that such an effective smoking cessation option is so customizable!

No doubt and getting more diverse all the time....so cool for sure

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[vapdivrr]

I'm not trying to replace one addiction to another. Yeah, I tried higher nic. But it didn't solve the problem of hand to mouth, between the fingers and the aroma of a lit cigarette (among other things). I still smoked. One day I bought one of those cig-a-like devices and filled it with 35ml salt nic. I smoked anyway. And by sundown felt asthsmatic. I gave it away on day two.

I tried direct lung and coughed my fool head off everytime. Nope, MTL with a little nicotine is fine. And Zenith tanks with 1.6 ohm coils produce a great amout of steam while sipping on the sauce.

I only charge my Kroma or Rover X once a week as well. Each has about 75% remaining. When I was using a Legend 100, I recharged it at 80% after 3 weeks. My power hungry YiHi on the other hand is down to about 50% at weeks end.

Swapping habits, for example the after dinner after sundown smoking is out. First cigarette of the day is now at a much later time of day. Stuff like that.

I have stopped a few bad habits through changing habits. I don't need more nicotine in my vape juice. Others may, but I don't. If I'm stuck in the office for weeks at a time I don't smoke at all. Not until after work. I will smoke on my lunch break only. Yet when I'm in the field I smoke, smoke, smoke. It's not the nicotine that's my issue. Not at all. But I do know my body wants it at times.

Oh, and I only take 3 or 4 small drags from a cigarette. Sometimes not enough to exhale any smoke. They typically burn up or go out while holding them. So "drags per day" might be less than 100 these days. And I take small drags from my vapes.

I see.... although it won't help the hand to mouth thing and focuses back on the nic thing and may not help in your situation, but have you tried the nic salt juices? I personally never have, but it is alot smoother and might not make you feel out of breath.....worth a try maybe

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[United States]

It was the nic salt juice I tried. Now it was a pipe tobacco flavor instead of my usual yummy stuff. But again, the idea was to replace cigarettes with a similar flavor and experience.

I completely understand why many should 'up the nic' for successful smoking cessation.

My first vape device was a Fuma cig-a-like some years back. I used it at work instead of smoking with great success. And to be honest I did enjoy walking around the construction site with a nic buzz. I'd hit it about twice an hour to recreate the buzz. My weekly carton of smokes became my monthly carton. But the cartridges kept popping and nic juice caused my face to go numb. My wife developed a PG issue with hers. So Mrs. States and I both stopped vaping.

I like cigarettes. I do. So that alone means stopping completely is not the goal at the moment. It is a long term goal where habits are changing to develop a preference for vaping instead. Instead of the 40+ year old habits that are now part of an instinct, the day by day instinct is becoming different.

Realizing there will come a day where willpower will be required, I know from experience with stopping other bad habits that there will be a day when I say "no more smoking".

To this day I like rum and I like zinfendel wine. But I stopped "using" both a long time ago. I was able to replace the physical craving for sugar with little Debbie snacks that later became an issue and prior deciding cigarettes are on the way out I wrastled that tiger into submission along with my craving for caffiene. I am now in control of sugar intake and caffiene intake, which were a necessary change to eventually stop smoking.

I also beat a 25 year habit of being high from mary jane during waking hours. That was years ago and is the reason I began smoking cigarettes... to cover up the lingering smell. And it is also why I can stealth vape in elevators and the office with success.

So to get back on track, I have learned how nicotine from my favorite Zenith affects me differently than from tobacco smoke. I don't seek that buzz I got from the Fuma of long ago. Instead I seek to counter certain habits developed by quite possibly one of the top 10 worst inventions mankind could come up with. And vaping makes me drowsy.

It used to take a full flavor Camel to make me drowsy on an evening where the off switch in my brain is stuck to 'on'. Now I know a few puffs on a Zenith means it'll be like when going in for surgery and they stick a fluid in your arm and say "count backwards from 100" and I don't get past 97. lol

 

[evan le'garde]

I'm not trying to replace one addiction to another. Yeah, I tried higher nic. But it didn't solve the problem of hand to mouth, between the fingers and the aroma of a lit cigarette (among other things). I still smoked. One day I bought one of those cig-a-like devices and filled it with 35ml salt nic. I smoked anyway. And by sundown felt asthsmatic. I gave it away on day two.

I tried direct lung and coughed my fool head off everytime. Nope, MTL with a little nicotine is fine. And Zenith tanks with 1.6 ohm coils produce a great amout of steam while sipping on the sauce.

I only charge my Kroma or Rover X once a week as well. Each has about 75% remaining. When I was using a Legend 100, I recharged it at 80% after 3 weeks. My power hungry YiHi on the other hand is down to about 50% at weeks end.

Swapping habits, for example the after dinner after sundown smoking is out. First cigarette of the day is now at a much later time of day. Stuff like that.

I have stopped a few bad habits through changing habits. I don't need more nicotine in my vape juice. Others may, but I don't. If I'm stuck in the office for weeks at a time I don't smoke at all. Not until after work. I will smoke on my lunch break only. Yet when I'm in the field I smoke, smoke, smoke. It's not the nicotine that's my issue. Not at all. But I do know my body wants it at times.

Oh, and I only take 3 or 4 small drags from a cigarette. Sometimes not enough to exhale any smoke. They typically burn up or go out while holding them. So "drags per day" might be less than 100 these days. And I take small drags from my vapes.

What % of Propylene Glycol do you vape with ?.

 

[Beamslider]

I just couldn't get a satisfying lung hit with mtl, I don't think I'm alone in this. I also prefer multi wire coils which pretty much requires more af. Isn't it wonderful that such an effective smoking cessation option is so customizable!

I have gone this route too. The MTL just wasn't cutting it for me at some point. I am definitely happier with multi-wire coils and more air flow. I was chain vaping with MTL. Now a 5 or 6 hits does it for me for around an hour. Still burning thru the same amount of juice though.

 

[United States]

What % of Propylene Glycol do you vape with ?.

70% VG is my favorite. 60% is ok. 50% was no bueno for me. 80% and "max VG" were also tried.

 

[evan le'garde]

70% VG is my favorite. 60% is ok. 50% was no bueno for me. 80% and "max VG" were also tried.

So i'm guessing you've tried every ratio of VG/PG whilst you vaped MTL then !!?.

It's just that.....the countless number of times i've read posts where members have pointed out that once you find your sweet spot....etc. I just thought there is a sweet spot that exists for everyone. Clearly though, you've exausted every avenue of MTL vaping and there is no sweet spot for you.

Personally, i MTL exclusively. And the flovours i use really aren't flavours i'd use in a DTL tank. The vaping experience i've created for myself includes flavours which aren't at all dissimilar from smoking tobacco. One particular e liquid i tailored for myself is made from only 7.5% flavouring. Consisting of 1 and 3/4ml of Capella "Coconut" combined with 1 and 1/4 Capella "Choc Fudge Brownie" for every 40ml of e liquid. Based on a premise that less is more. And i can only describe this flavour as something similar, but not exactly like, burning "Old Holborn". The flavouring combined with the VG/PG nicotine base and Vg cutting liquid all add up to a 75% VG - 25% PG e liquid.

I use 29g kanthal, 5 wraps with an inner diameter of 2mm which equates to approximately 1ohm, and i vape 24mg's at 11.5 watts.


Although i have recently been thinking that maybe a touch of Menthol might just be the icing on the cake. Just haven't got round to experimenting with it yet though. I just know that cool sensation which comes from Menthol will bring the overall flavour as close as i can to a smoking experience.

 

[United States]

I spent around a grand in my first 45 days on trial and error devices, tanks, juices and atties. My wife was thrilled with her first device and the first flavor she tried.

I found my 'sweet spot' with Zenith tanks using 1.6 ohm drop in coils at 13-13.5 watts. Flavors are 70% vg centered around a grape base with hints of sour notes on exhale. Notes of sour apple, or white grape, perhaps a strawberry or faint tropical punch variety. It recently came down to finding the drip tip for 'me'.

I still smoke because I like smoking.

In June of this year my body started to do funky stuff so I visited a few facilities who said I was normal. My regular doc suggested a heart monitor for a month. In July It showed I was going into afib at certain points of the day. Caffiene ingestion triggered it. Sugary treats triggered it. Chain smoking did too. But my biggest issue was dehydration caused by the dieretic affects of caffiene and being a border line diabetic from the sugary treats. So I cut out the snacks and caffiene, then reduced my smoking by about 50% in July. That is down about 25% more since then. I began vaping in August with the idea of being a former smoker by ground hog day.

A weekly supply of cigarettes in June is now a 3 week+ supply. On Friday night I have a chocolate milkshake and on Saturday I have caffienated coffee and a few cigarettes.

I smoke during the day and vape in the evenings. Each day the length of time before that first cigarette gets a little later for the most part. Used to be by 6am I was smoking. Now it's 8 most days. Sometimes later.

My job involves juggling responsibilities while focusing on solving issues and interpersonal skills keep bickering government agencies from halting a large construction project because... they can. One group hates the other group and our project is their way of flexing their muscle. Failure is not an option since being a consultant for a government agency means scapegoat in a worst case scenario.
No pressure there. lol.

So right now my heart is in rythm and I have a ball at work each day while I chip away at a 40 year smoking addiction.

 

[Rossum]

I spent around a grand in my first 45 days on trial and error devices, tanks, juices and atties. My wife was thrilled with her first device and the first flavor she tried.

I found my 'sweet spot' with Zenith tanks using 1.6 ohm drop in coils at 13-13.5 watts. Flavors are 70% vg centered around a grape base with hints of sour notes on exhale. Notes of sour apple, or white grape, perhaps a strawberry or faint tropical punch variety. It recently came down to finding the drip tip for 'me'.

I still smoke because I like smoking.

In June of this year my body started to do funky stuff so I visited a few facilities who said I was normal. My regular doc suggested a heart monitor for a month. In July It showed I was going into afib at certain points of the day. Caffiene ingestion triggered it. Sugary treats triggered it. Chain smoking did too. But my biggest issue was dehydration caused by the dieretic affects of caffiene and being a border line diabetic from the sugary treats. So I cut out the snacks and caffiene, then reduced my smoking by about 50% in July. That is down about 25% more since then. I began vaping in August with the idea of being a former smoker by ground hog day.

A weekly supply of cigarettes in June is now a 3 week+ supply. On Friday night I have a chocolate milkshake and on Saturday I have caffienated coffee and a few cigarettes.

I smoke during the day and vape in the evenings. Each day the length of time before that first cigarette gets a little later for the most part. Used to be by 6am I was smoking. Now it's 8 most days. Sometimes later.

My job involves juggling responsibilities while focusing on solving issues and interpersonal skills keep bickering government agencies from halting a large construction project because... they can. One group hates the other group and our project is their way of flexing their muscle. Failure is not an option since being a consultant for a government agency means scapegoat in a worst case scenario.
No pressure there. lol.

So right now my heart is in rythm and I have a ball at work each day while I chip away at a 40 year smoking addiction.

Each person must walk his own path.

 

[United States]

Thank you Rossum.

 

[Vapntime]

Some won't give up. In all honesty if you smoked for that long will it even make a difference. Do what you have to do. I have a friend who is 66, he is a Vietnam veteran and a lovely guy, he tried to vape, gave it everything but it just wasn't for him. What will he lose? Who knows, probably not much, if anything for him. Interestingly, our habits and 'addictions' often harbor some things we don't wish to know about again or anytime, nothing wrong with that, most of the time.

 

[RedForeman]

Interesting thread. I guess I'm in the category of older, longer term former smoker who really enjoyed the habit but needed to stop for health reasons.

Nic level was part of my success, but not the key. Hard to describe, but trial & error to get to the flavor and feel of smoking. Vaping is not smoking, so achieving that is impossible. However, I managed to get to about 90%, which was enough to get me off of tobacco for good. It didn't help that I chose to do this when the available equipment was a lot less refined.

Regarding nic level, I went to 36mg/ml before I was able to prevent cravings. I now buy 24mg/ml, but not because I'm trying to cut back. The hardware has just improved a great deal, and it doesn't take as much to achieve the same satisfaction. One time I ran out of juice at the beginning of a 4 day trip. All I could conveniently get my hands on was some I found at a truck stop that was 16 mg/ml. It was less satisfying, but I wouldn't say it was terrible or left me desperate for something more. So I guess I could cut back on nicotine, but it's not a high priority for me at the moment. It's been 8 yrs and I'm still glad to be off the cigarettes enough not to worry about it.

Puffing on a vape same as a cigarette causes me to get drowsy. I suppose that's the tolerance thing?

No. It's the fact that stimulants (nicotine) tend to cover up, but not resolve, fatigue. I am a commercial driver, among other things. At the end of my driving "day," vape and caffeinated drinks have that exact effect of making me feel more drowsy. You may feel more "awake" using a stimulant, but that is usually only temporary and tends to accentuate other fatigue symptoms like tunnel vision and micro sleep (look it up, it's deadly). The only proven methods to postpone (not solve) fatigue, are exercise and power naps. The only way to solve fatigue is a complete sleep cycle, usually 6-7 hrs minimum for most people.

Oh yes it's the first thing people mention when I tell them about vaping, "isn't there still nicotine in those?" Forget all those carcinogens but nic is what they think of...even vapors, like you said, they smoke cigs for 40 years and now immediately think of reducing.

Just my opinion, but I think it has a lot to do with BT marketing of "lite" cigarettes. Especially to those of us that were around when advertising was more prevalent. "Less is better for you" is a simple rationalization that just about anyone can believe. Although as you've already noted, the reality is not that simple.

 

[Pete M]

For me it's definitely the nicotine but also the hand to mouth. I was a chain smoker. It's even easier to 'chain' with a vape though because there's no definite physical 'stop' signal like when you burn a cig to the filter! Low nic juice is my friend there though. Really the addiction for me is much more psychological than physical, especially when being with smokers and even more especially when drinking alcohol.