The problem with electronic cigarettes...

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Equilibrium

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I was under the impression that it is the MAOIs that are responsible for breaking down the dopamine.
And that is why there is a synergistic effect between the nicotine and the MAOIs in tobacco that cause an increase in addictive potential.

My addiction reference wasn't in regards to nicotine. Yes I was addicted to nicotine, still am I suppose sense my juice is 12 mg, but I was referring to a past addiction to another substance. And MAOI's don't destroy dopamine, they inhibit the re-uptake of it so there is a better chance for the dopamine molecule to find a parking spot on a receptor so it can do it's job. (A simplified description)
 

vapero

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the problem is that all new vapers want to get the same rituals as they did while smoking...
but for me it has evolved to a whole new level, a different animal.
now vaping for me has it's own rituals that I prefer I like to taste new juices, to switch flavors in an instant, change devices that have a different feel, a different drag, different moistness and even a different hold. love changing my coils and that first vape on a new coil, wick or flavor. to see the clouds run trough the table.
 

txskimo

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Maybe I'm just weird but I don't see a need to fit vaping to make me stop using tobacco products. Of course once I did start vaping I had to urge to continue smoking or dipping and I'm glad it did but there's no need to try and make it that type of product. My wife who wasn't really a smoker but enjoyed smoking hookah from time to time finds a lot of joy in vaping, so why would anyone want to try and single this to a specific market?
 

AndriaD

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When I started vaping in Jan 2013, I had no intention of quitting smoking, didn't want to quit smoking, and liked smoking (health issues be damned).

The day I started vaping, I had my last cigarette, and still haven't had one to this day.

I have no intention of quitting vaping, I don't want to quit vaping, and I like vaping (health issues unknown).

:D

I really, really love this. I get badgered all the time 'well when are you gonna quit THAT?' like there's some obligation to stop enjoying myself! Damn Puritans. The fact is, I DON'T KNOW! When, or IF, I ever will quit -- I had no intention of quitting smoking, till I discovered that vaping was actually better -- it took me about a month of using both to reach that conclusion.

The day might come when I feel the need to give up vaping. Anything's possible, and as you say, although it seems relatively harmless compared to smoking, we don't really KNOW FOR SURE what the longterm effects will be. Until such a future time... I don't know. But I'm going to enjoy vaping, in some fashion, until I do. And maybe afterward too. I enjoyed smoking for the entire 39 yrs I did it, except that last month when it became more and more clear that smoking was horrible compared to vaping.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Ok, this is not an attack, but I have seriously thought about this when I first started ecigarettes. I went to nicotine 101, and learned how nicotine works and affects our dopamine production. And it has controlled the way I vape.

Now, the dopamine increase the energy levels slightly... this is where everyone compares it to caffeine. It also give you a slight bit of energy and a feeling of satisfaction. However, most nicotine products have a more serious side effect than the dopamine stimullus itself. Usually injury and/or death is caused not by the nicotine affecting the dopamine, but the delivery method of the nicotine. With smoking, it's the tar and ash that kills people, not the nicotine itself. With Harder drugs that stimulate the dopamine pathways, it's the other chemicals that do the damage while the dopamine stimulus causes the addiction. Therefore, someone will smoke themselves to death or do harder drugs.

Most papers and studies done deal with smoking being the main cause of the nicotine delivery. For most studies, Nicotine = Smoking. Ecigarettes, which are new to the market, totally changes those reports. As an example, on the Nicotine 101, it takes serious accounts of nicotine addiction, and how it affects the brain. However, any negative results or comments on the whole subject are directed to smoking. Remember, it's not the nicotine that kills, it's the delivery method.

So, I ask the OP... why quit nicotine? Is there any side effect of nicotine that should be of concern besides the addictive process itself? The only side effect of nicotine I know of, is slightly increased heart rate. It is a natural chemical found in egg plants, potatoes, etc. Too much anything is deadly, and nicotine is no exception. But if you do it moderately, is there a reason to quit?

As bad as the delivery method was with smoking, I'm finding that I have serious issues with the delivery method of vaping -- the PG *and* the VG. PG dehydrates, making my feet and ankles swollen and painful. VG just flat out smothers me. I don't have a single problem with nicotine, though I can't take a great deal of it without becoming nauseous. But I've tried the patch, and it's not satisfying at all, and I could never go over a week, trying to quit via that method. Vaping has allowed me to quit cigarettes, and now that I've quit, and for long enough that most of all those other chemicals have left me, I find I have to take it a bit easier on the vaping -- not because of the nicotine, but because of the medium that carries it and makes the whole thing possible -- the PG and VG. If they ever come up with an alternative to PG/VG for vaping, I'll be right in line to try it.

Andria
 

Asbestos4004

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Ummm.....why not? If he wants to invent something that simulates a cigarette, by all means, go ahead. I certainly don't want one. I don't see where his idea includes making it mandatory for all devices. People can amuse themselves all they want by trying to scientifically pinpoint what happens to me when I vape....I really dont care. I vape when I want, and for as long as I want. I'm guessing the hooking up you PV to your PC idea was met with a lot of debate. I still think its stupid....but if you like it, I'm happy for you. If he makes it, I hope it sells. We wouldn't be enjoying the quality of vape we get today if people were all afraid to step out of the box. I agree with almost nothing the op stated, but I dont have to agree and his future isn't teetering on my approval.
 

Jman8

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Ummm.....why not? If he wants to invent something that simulates a cigarette, by all means, go ahead. I certainly don't want one. I don't see where his idea includes making it mandatory for all devices. People can amuse themselves all they want by trying to scientifically pinpoint what happens to me when I vape....I really dont care. I vape when I want, and for as long as I want. I'm guessing the hooking up you PV to your PC idea was met with a lot of debate. I still think its stupid....but if you like it, I'm happy for you. If he makes it, I hope it sells. We wouldn't be enjoying the quality of vape we get today if people were all afraid to step out of the box. I agree with almost nothing the op stated, but I dont have to agree and his future isn't teetering on my approval.

Precisely my position.

I'm very okay living in a world where devices like OP is talking about might exist.

IMO, it is title of this thread that is offsetting. First post of this thread isn't in same direction as the blanket title is.
 

NealBJr

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Umm did you read my post? I didn't say quit nicotine. For the record nicotine still constricts capillaries which slows down healing if for example you break your leg, it could double healing time. It also still causes heart disease. Apart from that not much wrong with it.

Again, read the reports clearly. That is an association between smoking and heart disease. Those reports show that smoking increases the blood coagulability, which is what causes the heart disease. Those responses are not evident in smoking cessation devices, so it's not the actual nicotine that causes it. They do have warnings on NRT's about taking it with people who have cardiovascular disease, but it has no warnings that it causes heart disease. Again, it's because of the delivery method.

Reference source: http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1121737

As far as the capillary constriction, that, you're right on. I believe it would increase healing, and I do believe it affects the overall healing of the body.

It's hard to discern between what nicotine does and what smoking does. As I was saying earlier, most reports are associating nicotine with smoking, and the two have been intertwined in the reports. Smoking involves a multitude of chemicals, Nicotine being just one. I would look at NRT studies when involving nicotine, since NRTs separate the Nicotine from the thousands of other chemicals in just one cigarette. It's also why I think the FDA needs to study Ecigs and how nicotine is absorbed into the bloodstream.
 

AndriaD

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My feeling is that I agree with those who wouldn't want it to just *quit* after a specified time, because as someone pointed out, there were times when 1 cigarette just didn't get it done. However, the idea of something *letting me know* when I had reached whatever time or amount I had programmed, THAT would be really useful! Information, not constraint, that's the ticket!

Andria
 

Rangertrix

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The only people such a device would help are those that have an addictive personality, and possibly OCD. There are underlying issues that attribute to both of those disorders.
I, personally, think you are over thinking the whole idea behind vaping, and are hoping that a "pavlovian" approach will help new vapers.
I think if someone is attempting to quit smoking by using vaping as a healthier alternative, they have already made a conscious decision and are capable of deciding what is best for their given situation.
If they needed to be "trained" they wouldn't have come to make this choice, and such a device would be superfluous.

On a side note, I have both OCD and an addictive personality, and have felt no need for such a device.
I get my dopamine release by reading and researching all the devices I hear about, not by purchasing them all. Even though I am financially able to do so.
We are all adults here to support each other in a common goal, another dopamine release, I see no need for such a device.

I apologize for my rant.
 
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realsis

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I do not personally want anyone or any THING telling me when enough is enough. I'm a grown person and I stop when I want and vape when I want and get my dophmine from making coils and watching them work I guess cause I'm pretty satisfied. I wouldn't buy something that said ok time to quit. Uh, no, excuse me I will say when enough is enough. I vape a lot. I enjoy it. I'm NOT Hurting anyone. I carry my mod around all day long. There are times I set it down if I've felt I've had enough too. I am a grown up and I do not need baby sitting. I do not mean to offend when I say this it's just too many other influences telling us what's best for us, when we should be deciding that. And if we can't decide that, then we should not be vaping in the first place because we are not mature enough. I decide when I've had enough, nothing or no one else. Vaping is NOT smoking, there are many different ways to enjoy a vape. If I want to vape all day I will. If not I won't. There is no cut off time. We are free and that's the way it should stay!
 

AndriaD

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Again, read the reports clearly. That is an association between smoking and heart disease. Those reports show that smoking increases the blood coagulability, which is what causes the heart disease. Those responses are not evident in smoking cessation devices, so it's not the actual nicotine that causes it. They do have warnings on NRT's about taking it with people who have cardiovascular disease, but it has no warnings that it causes heart disease. Again, it's because of the delivery method.

Reference source: http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1121737

As far as the capillary constriction, that, you're right on. I believe it would increase healing, and I do believe it affects the overall healing of the body.

It's hard to discern between what nicotine does and what smoking does. As I was saying earlier, most reports are associating nicotine with smoking, and the two have been intertwined in the reports. Smoking involves a multitude of chemicals, Nicotine being just one. I would look at NRT studies when involving nicotine, since NRTs separate the Nicotine from the thousands of other chemicals in just one cigarette. It's also why I think the FDA needs to study Ecigs and how nicotine is absorbed into the bloodstream.

As a vasoconstrictor, it would be right up there with caffeine as a "do it yourself" migraine medicine. Probably not as effective as pharmaceuticals, but also without the many terrifying side effects of the pharmaceuticals. I always treat the rare migraines I still occasionally get with a tightly-tied scarf around my head, and enormous guzzles of dr pepper, no-doz if there's any handy. If you do all that and lie down in a dark room for a little while, generally the migraine takes a hike. Add nicotine, via vaping, to that plan, and you might not need to rest your eyes for quite so long in the dark. To me migraines have always been more PITA than agony. I don't usually get the full pain, just the blindness and flashing colors.

Andria
 

NealBJr

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As a vasoconstrictor, it would be right up there with caffeine as a "do it yourself" migraine medicine. Probably not as effective as pharmaceuticals, but also without the many terrifying side effects of the pharmaceuticals. I always treat the rare migraines I still occasionally get with a tightly-tied scarf around my head, and enormous guzzles of dr pepper, no-doz if there's any handy. If you do all that and lie down in a dark room for a little while, generally the migraine takes a hike. Add nicotine, via vaping, to that plan, and you might not need to rest your eyes for quite so long in the dark. To me migraines have always been more PITA than agony. I don't usually get the full pain, just the blindness and flashing colors.

Andria

That is close to what I use for migraines. I usually take something caffeinated, and the migraine takes a hike. But come to think of it, I don't think I've had a migraine in over a year. I can't say it's attributed to vaping though, just I haven't had one in a long time.
 

dead not sleeping

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I read an article about a physician out west somewhere that is doing just that with a device that delivers a certain amount of nicotine, then shuts off until the chip tells it to turn on again. Of course, its the doctor who programs the chip. If big pharma has their way, thats what it'll look like.
 
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