The problem with electronic cigarettes...

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Robino1

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Seriously people need to stop attacking!

There "Might" just be a place for something like this. As MANY of you have stated, not one thing works for everyone. This is an idea. An IDEA.

The OP is not saying that it is for everyone, just maybe for some.

He is not attacking those of us that vape differently.

There are some mighty fine discussions going on in here. Lets keep them civil.

Thank you! :)
 

Vermiform

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Interesting, how could you have benefited?

Personally, my biggest complaint was that I didn't know when I was done smoking back then. Mind you, I started vaping with V2 cigs. I guess if I had bothered to sit down and do some research on the net or had I found this forum earlier on, I would have been in better shape. I would have understood better the delayed reaction of the nic delivery, analog vs vaping. My biggest problem was OD'ing on nic back then, mainly the headaches. I was also an analog chain smoker so that could possibly account for some of it. To be perfectly honest, I have to admit that I still cross that line (very rarely) even today. It's not something I like to admit but since we are being honest......

I'm probably different than most though. I go into "autopilot" very easily and will not realize my setup is even in my hand some times. A device that acted as a programmable puff counter that would "get my attention" when I reached a certain number...again, I'm hesitant to admit, but I might be able to benefit from it still today.

Right now, my system for not vaping too much consists of me placing ALL of my devices out of arms reach where I have to physically & consciously get up and retrieve them.
 

NealBJr

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Ok, this is not an attack, but I have seriously thought about this when I first started ecigarettes. I went to nicotine 101, and learned how nicotine works and affects our dopamine production. And it has controlled the way I vape.

Now, the dopamine increase the energy levels slightly... this is where everyone compares it to caffeine. It also give you a slight bit of energy and a feeling of satisfaction. However, most nicotine products have a more serious side effect than the dopamine stimullus itself. Usually injury and/or death is caused not by the nicotine affecting the dopamine, but the delivery method of the nicotine. With smoking, it's the tar and ash that kills people, not the nicotine itself. With Harder drugs that stimulate the dopamine pathways, it's the other chemicals that do the damage while the dopamine stimulus causes the addiction. Therefore, someone will smoke themselves to death or do harder drugs.

Most papers and studies done deal with smoking being the main cause of the nicotine delivery. For most studies, Nicotine = Smoking. Ecigarettes, which are new to the market, totally changes those reports. As an example, on the Nicotine 101, it takes serious accounts of nicotine addiction, and how it affects the brain. However, any negative results or comments on the whole subject are directed to smoking. Remember, it's not the nicotine that kills, it's the delivery method.

So, I ask the OP... why quit nicotine? Is there any side effect of nicotine that should be of concern besides the addictive process itself? The only side effect of nicotine I know of, is slightly increased heart rate. It is a natural chemical found in egg plants, potatoes, etc. Too much anything is deadly, and nicotine is no exception. But if you do it moderately, is there a reason to quit?
 

RAAng

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My own personal experience was that all the times I tried to quit, because I thought I "ought to," "I should quit," etc, failed miserably. This time, after all these years (39!), I was just tired of the HASSLE OF SMOKING! The butts, the ashes, the stink, the going outdoors in freezing weather, the CONSTANT coughing and coughing up, the obscene cost, etc etc etc... so when I found something that closely approximated all the things I liked about smoking, and had none of the things I didn't, well that was an easy decision to make, and I WANTED TO MAKE IT. That's the real key, I think. If you try to quit because you "should," or you "ought to," or someone else thinks it would be a good thing to do, you'll never be able to do it. But if just once YOU decide that you REALLY WANT TO QUIT, it becomes very simple. No, the cravings don't just vanish; you have to work on banishing them, and e-cigs are a great help, but they're not the whole story -- you have to simply TAKE THE OPTION OFF THE TABLE. Or in terms of what I've heard in AA... "don't _____ even if your ... falls off." Drink, smoke, whatever it is you want to stop doing. If you remove the option from your own mind, that's about 99% of the battle.

But as long as there is even a shred of "well I'll only do it if I really NEED it" in your mind, your brain will MANUFACTURE a need, guaranteed.

So, vaping can be a bit of a hassle. So was smoking, and I think people forget that, and it's also obscenely expensive. Vaping isn't, or it doesn't have to be, if you can rein in your Shinyitis impulses to a minimum. Vaping is a terrifically effective key to unlock Smokers' Prison, but you still have to open the door and walk out, yourself -- no one can do it for you.

Andria

Interesting.

I started vaping because I didn't want to quit but knew I should. Vaping seemed like a good way to smoke, but not smoke. I was one who quit immediately with no transition. I did take the option off the table, and I think you are right about this. I KNOW if I start letting myself smoke it'll be back. So I view it as my training my brain that we don't smoke anymore. When i want a cig? Sorry, we don't smoke. Then I vape 'til the urge goes away.

As for the OP - Yup. I've been thinking a lot about this whole smoking thing since I went tobacco free two months ago. Although I was able to quit using vaping and have had no real serious urges...is it as satisfying as smoking? Nope. Do I worry that in a .....storm I will pick up a cig? Yup. Do I want to chain vape a little less? Yup. Do I constantly fight an urge? Nope. I don't have an urge, I chain vape, it doesn't satisfy an urge, but yet I chain vape. Sometimes, but not always. When I was actually quitting cigs I didn't chain vape. It's only since I'm off them and don't really think about them that the chaining started. Does make me wonder.
 

Elizabeth Baldwin

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I wouldn't buy anything that has a timer that shuts down my Vape. I enjoy chain vaping. I wouldn't enjoy having to click a button a few times to start again. I cut my nicotine way down just so I could chain Vape. Perfectly happy with what I'm doing. If I chain Vaped regular cigarettes then I'd call it a problem.

If people can't figure out when to stop, if that's what they want, then I don't think the Vape gear is the problem.

There's nothing wrong with how Vape gear is set up now.
 

SPACKlick

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[Caveat: Skipped some of the posts in this thread]

I fully get what the OP is saying, it's the one thing I miss with Vaping. I don't have a trigger like the end of the cigarette so sometimes I over vape and get a little light headed. I have to consciously stop vaping which is a negative feeling at the end of every vape break.

Where I work there are fixed times for smoking/vaping and we all have to go to the same place. So every day at 9:45, 11:45, 13:30, 13:50, 16:00 and 17:00 I vape. just like I used to smoke. I still get the "Going for my fix" ritual but I don't get the "aah that fix happened" moment instead I get a "I guess I'll have to stop doing this thing I'm enjoying and go away moment" and that's a less satisfying feeling. I tried listening to a small sound clip, each time I went for a vape and it worked a bit, but I got sick of the sound clips. A timer on my phone worked for a while as well. If the PV itself had some function to set a limit on how long this vape session would last it might help that mental aspect.

That said. I would never have bought that functionality, it'll cost money to add and I wouldn't pay more for it and would suspect at the same price the one with it would be lower quality. Not sure if there is a solution to this, it's probably a mental difference vapers will have to get over, or someone will come up with something ingenious to solve it.

RAAng I get the same thing, although when I hit 3 months smoke free I bought a pack of cigarettes, tried one and know I won't be going back. I had to drink a load of coke to get the feeling and the taste out of my mouth because it was nauseating. I find if I'm getting more throat hit, and a tighter draw and more flavour, I suffer this problem less. I'll keep thinking and this time, if I come up with a solution I'll make it rather than just post it on a couple of forums and forget about it till Innokin makes one like I did with the DRV :evil:
 

DC2

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I haven't read everyone's replies but, I don't think you have a full grasp on the whole dopamine reward system. I'v studied the subject quite a bit.

Yes you may have a very slight increase in dopamine and serotonin at the thought of smoking or vaping BUT the real "spike" in both chemicals occurs when another chemical is introduced into the body.... nicotine.
CORRECTION: Nicotine AND the MAOIs present in tobacco.
 

DC2

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I was addicted the the most powerful chemical know to release dopamine. The chemical structure is so close to dopamine that the receptors in the brain confuse the two and said chemical will actually bind itself to the receptors. In addition to that, the chemical also shuts off the reuptake of dopamine and after a period of time the brain just shuts off the dopamine receptors making them inactive and eventually the the surplus dopamine you have dies out. It took 7 years after I quit for my brain chemistry to balance out and for me to start feeling somewhat normal again.
I was under the impression that it is the MAOIs that are responsible for breaking down the dopamine.
And that is why there is a synergistic effect between the nicotine and the MAOIs in tobacco that cause an increase in addictive potential.
 

olie

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Ok, this is not an attack, but I have seriously thought about this when I first started ecigarettes. I went to nicotine 101, and learned how nicotine works and affects our dopamine production. And it has controlled the way I vape.

Now, the dopamine increase the energy levels slightly... this is where everyone compares it to caffeine. It also give you a slight bit of energy and a feeling of satisfaction. However, most nicotine products have a more serious side effect than the dopamine stimullus itself. Usually injury and/or death is caused not by the nicotine affecting the dopamine, but the delivery method of the nicotine. With smoking, it's the tar and ash that kills people, not the nicotine itself. With Harder drugs that stimulate the dopamine pathways, it's the other chemicals that do the damage while the dopamine stimulus causes the addiction. Therefore, someone will smoke themselves to death or do harder drugs.

Most papers and studies done deal with smoking being the main cause of the nicotine delivery. For most studies, Nicotine = Smoking. Ecigarettes, which are new to the market, totally changes those reports. As an example, on the Nicotine 101, it takes serious accounts of nicotine addiction, and how it affects the brain. However, any negative results or comments on the whole subject are directed to smoking. Remember, it's not the nicotine that kills, it's the delivery method.

So, I ask the OP... why quit nicotine? Is there any side effect of nicotine that should be of concern besides the addictive process itself? The only side effect of nicotine I know of, is slightly increased heart rate. It is a natural chemical found in egg plants, potatoes, etc. Too much anything is deadly, and nicotine is no exception. But if you do it moderately, is there a reason to quit?

Umm did you read my post? I didn't say quit nicotine. For the record nicotine still constricts capillaries which slows down healing if for example you break your leg, it could double healing time. It also still causes heart disease. Apart from that not much wrong with it.
 

DC2

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Umm did you read my post? I didn't say quit nicotine. For the record nicotine still constricts capillaries which slows down healing if for example you break your leg, it could double healing time. It also still causes heart disease. Apart from that not much wrong with it.
Nicotine does not cause heart disease.
 

DC2

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Marketing it is a different sort of problem with a few different solutions but based on what i'm hypothesising the e-cig would be much more addictive due to the extra dopamine...
You don't seem to understand that electronic cigarettes are much LESS addictive than smoking.
But you'll learn through experience, as we all did.

It's damn near a proven fact as far as I'm concerned...
Why nicotine is not as addictive as THEY have made you believe...
 

DC2

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I know people have shopping addictions trying to "fill up" some other need, so I just don't ascribe to the buy something because it is really just an extension of the "take a pill" philosophy. I really believe you have to involve yourself and look within, figure out stuff sometimes, try to SOLVE the problem from where it originates----
I believe that if you find the right equipment and the right liquids, cigarettes fall by the wayside by themselves.
 

DC2

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All this talk about having a "defined vape session" and "knowing when you are done" is easily solved...

I drip because it tastes great and gives me the best vapor production.
And I just use a simple 510 atomizer.

But when you drip, you have to drip if you want to keep vaping.
So if you don't feel the need to vape anymore, then the act of dripping becomes an impediment you have to overcome if you really want to.

I can approximate a "cigarette" by dripping quite easily.
And I can choose to keep going or not, whenever I might feel like doing so.

So yeah, dripping for the win here.
:)
 
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