The question of life... battery life.

[V8Maverick]

Just an observation. I was running:
VooPoo Drag with a dual coil RDTA at about 130 watts. Battery life on both the VTC5a and VTC6's means that unless I kept it plugged into the USB port on my computer at work when not in use, there was no way it was going to do me a whole day.
Now I'm running the same batteries in a HOG at the best part of 300 watts over a quad-coil build (40mm RDA). Battery life... well it's a mech mod so it gets no intra-day top-ups to the cells, but it lasts all day having used all of about half the battery capacity.
I know it's S-P so the batteries are sharing the load, but the wattage is over doubled, so surely that should cancel that effect out. Why does vaping the HOG give so much longer life from the batteries?

 

[diagrammatiks]

Because there’s no chip. And isn’t the hammer of god a four battery mod

 

[V8Maverick]

Because there’s no chip. And isn’t the hammer of god a four battery mod

Really? The chip makes it that inefficient? Yes the hog is a 4 battery series-parallel mod. 8.4v but sharing the amp load.

 

[Izan]

Really? The chip makes it that inefficient? Yes the hog is a 4 battery series-parallel mod. 8.4v but sharing the amp load.

The Chip is going to set a min voltage of 3.2V-3.4V. per cell @ ~90% efficiency.
The mech will let you draw your batteries down to unsafe levels if you desire.

Cheers
I

 

[DaveP]

Mech or variable electronic mod, 130W means shorter battery life than, say 30W. 300W will suck the battery down even faster. Mech mods at the levels you are operating at can be dangerous. At least with an electronic mod there's safety devices in the build and the software to keep things from being stressed too far.

USB charging from your computer ports can be stressful on your motherboard. You might want to use a plug-in USB charger. Better to stress a cheap part than risk a $200+ motherboard failure. Motherboards typically charge at .5A (500ma). Plug-in chargers can perform at 1A or more. If they die, you just buy a new one. Your mod will draw its design charge current through the use of a load resistor in the mod's charging port.

 

[V8Maverick]

Mech or variable electronic mod, 130W means shorter battery life then, say 30W. 300W will suck the battery down even faster. Mech mods at the levels you are operating at can be dangerous. At least with an electronic mod there's safety devices in the build and the software to keep things from being stressed too far.

USB charging at from your computer ports can be stressful on your motherboard. You might want to use a plug-in USB charger. Better to stress a cheap part than risk a $200+ motherboard failure. Motherboards typically charge at .5A (500ma). Plug-in chargers can perform at 1A. If they die, you just buy a new one.

Hi Dave,
Yes I use a proper battery sled overnight to give the batteries a proper charge. I just keep it plugged into the pc at work to make sure it doesn't run out of juice during the day.
The point is though, 300W isn't sucking the batteries out really at all. I they're barely 50% by the end of the day, whereby they'd die long before the end of the day in the 130W regulated mod. And yes, Mech mods can be dangerous, I wouldn't try it in a 2 battery series mod. I'm happier with the HOG at this level as the draw should be pretty similar to if it was 150 watts on a two battery device.

 

[DaveP]

Hi Dave,
Yes I use a proper battery sled overnight to give the batteries a proper charge. I just keep it plugged into the pc at work to make sure it doesn't run out of juice during the day.
The point is though, 300W isn't sucking the batteries out really at all. I they're barely 50% by the end of the day, whereby they'd die long before the end of the day in the 130W regulated mod. And yes, Mech mods can be dangerous, I wouldn't try it in a 2 battery series mod. I'm happier with the HOG at this level as the draw should be pretty similar to if it was 150 watts on a two battery device.

Most of my single and dual battery mods drain a battery in 8 to 12 hours, but I'm a low wattage vaper. I might take 350 short puffs a day at 10W. On time of the mod plays into battery drain.

 

[V8Maverick]

I'm a short-sharp puffer so I like high wattage. Fill the lungs in under 2 seconds. I used to get around 250 - 270 puffs on a reg mod back when I was vaping at around 100 watts, obviously that dropped as the wattage went up.

 

[Baditude]

Really? The chip makes it that inefficient? Yes the hog is a 4 battery series-parallel mod. 8.4v but sharing the amp load.

You are either running a mech mod "in series" or "in parallel". It's one or the other.

In series, the voltage increases, but the amp load and mah is the same as a single battery.

In parallel, the voltage is the same as a single battery, but the amp load and mah increase proportionately.​

UNREGULATED PARALLEL BOX MOD VS. UNREGULATED SERIES BOX MOD | VAPING BATTERY SAFETY

A few different things can affect battery drain. Chip efficiency (regulated mod only). Energy loss (voltage drop) between the battery and coil. Voltage cutoff (regulated mod only; 3.2 - 3.4 volts) determines how long a battery can be used before the chip shuts down to prevent over-discharge of the battery; there is no voltage cutoff when using a mech mod, theoretically you could drain the battery under 3.0 volts. Coil resistance determines the drain (amps) on the battery in a mech mod, where the wattage setting on the regulator chip determines the drain on the battery in a regulated mod.

 

[V8Maverick]

You are either running a mech mod "in series" or "in parallel". It's one or the other.

Almost true, but not quite...
The HOG runs the 4 batteries in pairs, two are paired in series to make effectively an 8.4v cell, the other two are also independently in a series to make anther 8.4v, then these two mega cells of two paired units are run in parallel to one another. That way the HOG is able to run at 8.4v sharing the load of choice between the two banks of two cells.
It is possible to mod the HOG to run in quad parallel at 4.2v, similarly, I'd imagine you could run it in quad series at 16.8v, but I'd really not recommend that as a very clever strategy.

 

[Zaryk]

I would fully expect the battery life to be greater in a 4 battery mech than a two battery regulated. That just makes sense.

The drag was never known for excellent battery life. It is one of those over powered mods that make people think 'this is a hard hitting mod!" when in reality it is just putting more power to the coils than you are asking it to. That feature has a negative effect on battery life. The chip and screen has to use some battery power to work, so that is another drain that your mech is not dealing with. Mechs will also (typically, when functioning properly and built correctly) have less power from the batteries being transferred into heat in the inner workings of the mod, which will also effect battery life.

There are other factors effecting it too, but the point is that mech can use battery power a bit more efficiently than a regulated mod, and you are spreading the drain across more batteries.

 

[Baditude]

Almost true, but not quite...
The HOG runs the 4 batteries in pairs, two are paired in series to make effectively an 8.4v cell, the other two are also independently in a series to make anther 8.4v, then these two mega cells of two paired units are run in parallel to one another. That way the HOG is able to run at 8.4v sharing the load of choice between the two banks of two cells.
It is possible to mod the HOG to run in quad parallel at 4.2v, similarly, I'd imagine you could run it in quad series at 16.8v, but I'd really not recommend that as a very clever strategy.

I wasn't aware you could set up different setups in your mod like you explained. I learned something today. Yay, me!

 

[sonicbomb]

Regardless of parallel or series configuration 4 batteries contain more watt hours of use then two.

 

[V8Maverick]

Regardless of parallel or series configuration 4 batteries contain more watt hours of use then two.

Of course, but the wattage has more than doubled from 130 to 300, so you'd have thought the effect of more watt-hours would be negated. We'll just put it down to the inefficiency of the regulated mod.

 

[stols001]

Um, I think you missed the point on the whole USB plugging in thing. It's great that you are charging overnight etc., but it's not like "topping up" your batteries via computer is ANY different than charging them overnight with your computer.

The suggestion of "buying a wall wart" even in your office was so that IF something goes wrong (which can happen at ANY time, not just "times other than topping off") your computer will be fried. PERIOD.

Unless you are actively seeking to purchase a new computer, get a wall wart.

If you want something regulated and easy to use at work with your power needs, well get a 3 battery 18650 or a two battery 207-- series battery mod, to give yourself better run time. I don't own the drag, but I have heard many complaints about the battery life and it being a battery hog so you might want to look for regulated mods of the type I described that are reported to have efficient boards and not loaded down with so many whistles and bells, the batteries still there and drain every time you turn away for a moment.. Etc.
Anna

 

[dripster]

The Sony VTC5A in a dual 18650 regulated mod at 130 watts with a voltage cut-off of 3.2V could be drawing like maybe 25A from each battery, if the efficiency of the mod is at 81% (which we don't know, but at least it could be accurate). The VTC5A discharged at 25A continuous down to 3.2V takes just a few seconds longer than 3 minutes. Whereas 300 watts on the HOG with the paraseries configuration will translate to drawing only about 20A from each VTC5A battery. (Less if you also take into account the efficiency, or voltage drop of the HOG, as adding the resistance of the mech mod drives the total resistance up.) At 20A continuous down to 3.2V the VTC5A takes about 4 minutes 45 seconds to discharge so about 57% longer. To convert AmpHrs (1Ah = 1000mAh) to hours, all you have to do is divide AmpHrs by amps so this is an easy task if you're looking at Mooch's continuous current discharge graph. When we vape we don't discharge our batteries continuously, and, the 3.2V used for an example is not the same as the resting voltage that you measure with your multimeter after you take the batteries out of the mod because you also have to take into account the voltage sag of the VTC5A (about .4V if discharging it at 20A, about .5V if discharging it at 25A). But, even after you do take these addidional factors into account, you'll still see that generalizations and oversimplifications are a recipe for erroneous answers.

Basically, the "equivalent" part in "equivalent capacity" and dealing with watt-hours, run time, and actual vaping time often tend to be a wee bit misleading.

 

[V8Maverick]

The Sony VTC5A in a dual 18650.... etc

Yup, makes perfect sense. Out of interest, are most regulated mods parallel or series? I figured they had to be series as the one or two I've had that show voltage coming off of the chip push well in excess of 4.2.

 

[ScottP]

A 4 battery mech? You are very brave. I have seen the damage a single battery can cause if something goes wrong, I don't even want to think about 4 batteries exploding.

Before someone goes all "you can do it safely if you know what you are doing", yeah I know. I also know we are all people and people do occasionally make mistakes. A mistake on a 4 battery mech mod will be life changing (definitely for the worse) if not fatal.

 

[V8Maverick]

A 4 battery mech? You are very brave. I have seen the damage a single battery can cause if something goes wrong, I don't even want to think about 4 batteries exploding.

Before someone goes all "you can do it safely if you know what you are doing", yeah I know. I also know we are all people and people do occasionally make mistakes. A mistake on a 4 battery mech mod will be life changing (definitely for the worse) if not fatal.

I agree, 4 batteries going boom would be pretty bad. Best not put them in the wrong way round. This is also one of the reasons I never use old batteries. I have 2 sets, alternated each day so one set charges while the others are in use. Once a set is about 100 charging cycles old, it's dead to me. So I change batts on average every 6 or 7 months (200 ish days).

 

[ScottP]

I agree, 4 batteries going boom would be pretty bad. Best not put them in the wrong way round. This is also one of the reasons I never use old batteries. I have 2 sets, alternated each day so one set charges while the others are in use. Once a set is about 100 charging cycles old, it's dead to me. So I change batts on average every 6 or 7 months (200 ish days).

I would be more worried about something causing a short. Like maybe the wire comes loose, or as someone else had happen a small wire clipping unknowingly fell into the tank and seemed to work fine until later when it moved between a post and the side wall and caused a short. Not trying to scare you (or anyone else) but sometimes happens and Murphy's law presides. I am not familiar with the HOG so maybe it has some sort of fuse in it, if not, I would find a way to install one.