The secret of RY4 flavoring? (Pandan)

[MaxUT]

"Auto-spell-check" vapping converts to capping...

Figured it was something like that, but couldn't resist using the pic.

 

[SethG]

Figured it was something like that, but couldn't resist using the pic.

On that note..

 

[daath]

As long as we're doing the demotivational posters, here's a fun one I stumbled upon:

 

[MaxUT]

 

[NandyDC]

Any update on the Pandan??

 

[MaxUT]

Found some at Pilipino Mart in Los Angeles: http://www.pilipinomart.com/addcart.asp?productid=268&identifier=90

McCormick Pandan Extract
Price is $3.59 per 20mL bottle but the killer is the UPS/Fedex shipping.
I ordered 2 bottles anyway... total came to $20.52 for 40mL delivered.

If they ship soon I should have some test batches ready to taste by next Saturday or Sunday.

I'm thinking about trying:
Pandan only
Pandan w/ Coconut
Pandan w/ Vanilla
Pandan w/ Cotton Candy
Pandan w/ tobacco

 

[aprioristic]

Tell us how it is then Max!

edit: OK I feel dumb now reading the OP again but..

I came across Pandan in an article I was reading on the Maillard Reaction (apparently key to the flavoring industry)

The Maillard reaction is responsible for many colors and flavors in foods:

Toasted bread
Biscuits
Tater Tots
Malted barley as in malt whiskey or beer
Fried onions
Dried or condensed milk
Roasted coffee
Dulce de leche
The burnished surface (crust) of Brioche, cakes, yeast, and quick breads
Roasted meat [2]
Maple Syrup


6-Acetyl-2,3,4,5-tetrahydropyridine is responsible for the biscuit or cracker-like flavor present in baked goods like bread, popcorn, and tortilla products. The structurally related compound 2-acetylpyrroline has a similar smell and occurs also naturally without heating and gives varieties of cooked rice and the spice pandan (Pandanus amaryllifolius) their typical smell. Both compounds have odor thresholds below 0.06 ng/l.

 

[Lazerrred]

Yes, tell us how it is Max.

 

[No More Analog]

You mentioned basmati and jasmine rice in your OP.
Those both have a nutty/popcorn-like aroma.
Are you saying they add pandan to the rice during processing to give it that aroma?

Does pandan add a nutty/popcorn-like aroma or flavor to your juice?

Thanks!

 

[MaxUT]

Don't y'all be holding your breath now, cause I just checked my order and it says...

Processing

 

[Lazerrred]

I'm turn in blue already aye.

 

[SethG]

Tell us how it is then Max!

edit: OK I feel dumb now reading the OP again but..

I came across Pandan in an article I was reading on the Maillard Reaction (apparently key to the flavoring industry)

Going a little off topic reading that same article: "In making silage, excess heat causes the Maillard reaction to occur, which reduces the amount of energy and protein available to the animals that feed on it." The smell of the silage, oh wow! Does that ever bring back memories. Perhaps one of the greatest things about working on a farm that I remember. Silage smells, well like silage and doesn't match up with any other thing that I can think of. If you ever get a change to smell it, do it. Its a good smell.

OK, back to the topic at hand. I've ordered Ethyl Malto crystals which should be here today or Monday. I think EM would probably round out the Pandan flavor into hopefully a more familiar flavor. My question now is this, from what I've read I take the crystals and dissolve them in PG at 10% ratio by volume and use that as a flavoring?

Also, thinking back to my initial trial the 10% Pandan flavor may have been a little strong. I'll have to play around with the numbers a bit. I haven't tried it with the Maple Syrup flavor yet (it wouldn't take much), maybe I'll do that tonight if the EM doesn't arrive.

 

[aprioristic]

That's interesting. I've only been around farms enough to get a whiff of the bad smells.

ecigexpress says this about EM:

Solubility
alcohol, 12%
propylene glycol, 5.5%

I thought somehow Linda at TFA gets it to 10% solution in PG somehow, but I could be wrong. I just use Cotton Candy pre-mixed.

 

[SethG]

OK, received the ethyl malto today and I think it's going in the right direction. I mixed the EM into PG at 10% ratio by volume warming it with boiling water from a tea kettle to dissolve. Wow this is some sweet stuff... the aroma!

My first trial of the two together is 5% Pandan and 5% EM solution.

I think it could stand to be a touch sweeter, I'll try upping the EM solution in my next mix to 10%. The pandan flavor has evened out quite a bit. The pandan flavor is not quite so "bready" now and actually has more of the nutty and tobacco flavor coming through!

Now I'm just posting my immediate impressions because I'm excited about this. Unfortunately I seem to have caught a nasty winter cold and am probably missing some subtleties. I'm hopped up on decongestants so my nose is clear.... for now.

Seth

 

[aprioristic]

Have you used TFA Cotton Candy before? How does it compare if so to mixing your own? I think next time I am going to go with EM in PGA, so I can up the PGA in my mixes and due to the higher solution percentage. It seems like it would be the absolute best way to do it.

I looked for Pandan at a local Vietnamese mart but they had nothing like it. I'm still having PV problems and stalking the mailman, but I can't wait to try this still. That's really interesting you are getting tobacco out of it. I'll be anxious to hear more reviews when you are better. =)

 

[SethG]

AFAIK the TFA Cotton Candy is just 10% EM in PG. I haven't tried them both so I can't say for sure. I think Hoosier may have tried them both?

I also haven't read anything about using PGA to dissolve the EM but I'm sure people have tried. It's worth a trial.

Have you ever felt so crappy from a cold that it wakes you up out of a sound sleep?

 

[aprioristic]

Nah, I am a deep sleeper and don't get sick a lot. I think I read Linda does something special to get 10% in PG, or maybe it is inaccurate. I ought to get around to bugging her about a bunch of things. What I copied above shows 5.5% solubility in PG and 12% in PGA. Since it holds more it probably even dissolves with no need to heat. EM is a widely used flavoring.

 

[MaxUT]

I received my two 20 mL bottles of McCormick Pandan flavoring at the end of last week. This is 100% artificial flavor, BTW, manufactured in The Phillipines.

I made a 2 mL test batch with 10% in a VG base, gave it 24 hrs. to blend and then dripped it in an LR 901 on an eGo batt. To me the taste was hard to define; mild, definitely... slightly sweet, hint of something like pecan. And yes, the suggestion of tobacco in the overall taste.

My wife tried it but said it burned her throat and nose. "Ack! I thought you said this tasted like RY4!"

I went on to make 30 mL at 10% concentration to use as a base for future experiments. Reckon I'm shortly going to have a flock of little 3 mL bottles with various combinations labeled "PD-1", "PD-2" and so forth.

 

[aprioristic]

Seth: you may have made the single most significant discovery in DIY eliquid flavoring history!
________________________________________________________________________

Other names for Pandan, in case it helps when searching local markets:

Vietnamese: La Dua
Indian: Rampe
Thai: Bai Toey

Interesting fact: pandan leaves become fragrant only after wilting. Dried leaves lose their aroma.

I almost bought some pandan tonight at my local Indian convenience store/market. I looked up this post and when I didn't see rampe, I asked the people there because I always talk to them about food. They just kinda looked at me funny and said no.

Anyhow they do have pandan but it is called "kewra". When I saw that word I knew I saw it somewhere... must have been in some link. This is definitely produced outside of the US and I didn't look at other ingredients, but I think the bottle was 30-50ml.

Here's a page with pandan in 42 languages. It mentions some other constituent chemicals common in flavorings. It looks like the terpinene type things might have given the occasional astringent flavor.

 

[aprioristic]

Here's what I got today. 1 dram for $1.49 but I am not impressed so far. It could be part of the underlying flavor of the "Dekang" RY4 I got that was bad. I've never had the real RY4 so nothing to compare it to. It lists that it was manufactured 10/08 (Batch 42 fwiw), so it might be a little old.

I'm going to let it steep, and probably try a couple mixes with caramel/tobacco/nutty flavors. Maybe I shouldn't judge from smell alone, but I still need to order more stuff before I can really test flavors. I don't get any of the pleasant descriptors mentioned from my first pass. It's something I recognize from being in Indian groceries before but not a flavor my American palate is accustomed to. Maybe the flavors will develop, but I think it could at least be useful as a mixer even when it isn't enjoyable on its own, similar to FA Liquid Amber.