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The Ultimate TCR List

Discussion in 'Temperature Control' started by Jalcide, Dec 22, 2015.

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  1. VapingTurtle

    VapingTurtle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    TCR may be linear or it may be a curve. It is not going to vary randomly from point to point on the temp spectrum. The change is always going to be in the same direction, whether constant or accelerating or decelerating.

    BigEgo said, "Based on their tables, I ran the numbers and got the following for 'specimen 1'." Most likely an error while 'running numbers', or typing them in after they ran away. Or Ames made an error in their report for the AEC. Scary.

    Anywho, it was a nice exercise. And useful thought.
     
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  2. pevinsghost

    pevinsghost Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 6, 2015
    St Louis, MO
    TCR will generally increase, but a decrease at some spots on the curve is not impossible.

    The resistance coefficient of temperature is related to the size coefficient of temperature.

    As things heat up, they expand, and as they cool, they contract... except for water which stops contracting and starts expanding as it cools below 4°C and other materials that can crystallize.

    Like water's reaction as it cools, different materials can have different reactions at different temperatures. This is especially true of mixed materials, which can have different inter-material reactions at different temperatures.
     
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  3. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    In the paper, they explain some of the discontinuities of the curve (starting on page 65 of the report).
     
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  4. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    the actual value of the tcr depends on whether you are using farenheit or celcius
     
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  5. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    No, it doesn't.
     
  6. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    Nope,,,, But, what if using Holmans :lol:
     
  7. edyle

    edyle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran


    The standard tcr is in kelvin.
    that boils down to be celcius degrees.

    So far I havent seen any examples that use farenheit.

    resistivity is measured in : ohm meter
    and the value does not depend on whether you measure in celcius or farenhiet; perhaps that is what you were thinking of.


    temperature coeficient of resistivity is measured in: per degree;
    ie: 1/kelvin
    it can also be specified in : per degree celcius, or per degree farenheit.
     
  8. HolmanGT

    HolmanGT Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2013
    St. George, UT USA
    OK -- Hitcat,

    Inquiring minds want to know, what the He!! is a "Holman"
     
  9. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    Lawdy my Brother,,, your memory worse than that of my poor ol' Battle-battered head?
    A Reference to a Series of Posts long long ago (somewhere around the 100 page mark me thinks?) in the Ti Wire Vaping & Safety Thread during one of our many light-hearted and whimsical asides. During a discussion on something about which was the most accurate Method to measure Temp in TC Algorithms. We got off onto Kelvin and some other more recent/obscure Scale and then someone (maybe Tony or Scotty) coined "Holmans" in your Honor. I know you were there and contributing. At least I'm relatively sure ;)
     
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  10. JimScotty0

    JimScotty0 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2014
    Garden Grove, CA, USA
    It is called the Holman scale if my memory serves me. It measures vaping sensation and has positive and negative points on the scale. Your results are best when tested at room temperature.

    Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. HolmanGT

    HolmanGT Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2013
    St. George, UT USA
    Hitcat,
    No battle fatigue here I was an Airdale Sailor, what would we know about "Battles". ;)

    Hitcat & Jim,

    I vaguely remember that episode but my "poor and just old head" can hardly remember 10 post back much less a 100 pages. :p

    Actually I was hoping some one would just tell me what it was about and not bring up the subject of modest term memory failure. :-x

    Thanks guys I think I am going to go to bed early and sob in my pillow and think about the good Ol' days when EVERYTHING functioned as it was designed to. :cry:
     
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  12. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    It's All Good my Friends. Hell, I knew there was a "Story" but couldn't remember the Details. No reason to mourn anything lost.... I tell myself I still remember quite nicely. I just wisely & purposefully have chosen to not care anymore :D. Better things to devote my Intellect and energies to than the trivial and otherwise meaningless Details :thumb:
    ie. who and where I am and what for :lol:
     
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  13. Adam Belcher

    Adam Belcher Senior Member

    Aug 31, 2015
    Complicated stuff. I've tried 0092 on rx 200 with 316L wire and hits temp protection instantly? It works great on standard ss mode though. The tcr on 316 and 316L seems to have virtually the same value so as rx has 316 as it's default I should be fine just using that? Cheers Adam.
     
  14. Jalcide

    Jalcide Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 10, 2015
    Hey, cheers. Temp protection hitting early is usually normal and just a sign of it working correctly. Especially for temps under 500F. It's (of course) not cutting power off completely, just regulating it. The smaller the build, the faster it might kick in (less mass to heat).

    Even when vapor production is lower than expected, it can often just mean a person enjoys a hotter, more aggressive vape. The only way to align our wishy-washy notions of temperature expectations, with reality, is to use a calibrated build and to get to know it.

    The RX200's SS316 setting is not an accurate TCR, it's a slightly more aggressive setting. A more accurate TCR is likely to feel underpowered.

    On top of that inaccuracy, the RX200 isn't perfect in its TCR representation compared against published material lab reports. It's in the ballpark, but not precise.

    So these values are just guidelines, as of this time of writing. Perhaps in the future there will be a way to calibrate a mod in a way that aligns its notion of TCR with the calibration.

    If you're interested in accuracy, for science and curiosity's sake, you can do a water calibration test (setting TCR such that boiling off water reads 212F) and get in the ballpark of what the correct TCR is for a given wire (well, a particular mod's notion of "correct" TCR).

    Otherwise, just pick a reasonable setting or TCR and dial it in with temp, would be my recommendation. If you get a system that works for you with the RX200's default SS316 setting, use it, and then you'll have three free TCR slots for other things. :)
     
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  15. Jalcide

    Jalcide Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 10, 2015
    Updated! Additions or changes since last update will have a :headbang: icon next to them:

    Nickel DH: 0.007036
    Joyetech Format: 0704

    Ni200: 0.00600 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    Joyetech Format: 0600
    Reliant/SXK Format: 69

    Ni200: 0.00620 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
    Joyetech Format: 0620

    Ni200, Curve Accurate @ 230C/450F: 0.0054 (According to @TheBloke)
    Joyetech Format: 0540
    Reliant/SXK Format: 62

    Ni200, @ A "moderate" (below 260C/500F) vape range averaged from Special Metals Corp: 0.0055 (According to @BigEgo and averages he calculated from the Special Metals Corporation spec sheet source) :headbang: Newly Added
    Joyetech Format: 0550

    Nifethal 70 (Alloy120): 0.00525
    Joyetech Format: 0525

    Kanthal NiFe70: 0.0052 (According to @TheBloke)
    Joyetech Format: 0520
    Reliant/SXK Format: 59

    NiFe30 (StealthVape): 0.00500
    Joyetech Format: 0500

    Iron: 0.00500
    Joyetech Format: 0500

    Tungsten: 0.00450
    Joyetech Format: 0450

    Tungsten, the Atlus by Guo Coil-less Tank's CVU "chip" (a trace wire heating element encased in ceramic): 0.0031 (According to its developer @DavidGuo)
    Joyetech Format: 0310

    Nifethal 52 (Alloy52): 0.004036
    Joyetech Format: 0404

    Kanthal NiFe52: 0.004 (According to @TheBloke)
    Joyetech Format: 0400
    Reliant/SXK Format: 46

    NiFe (Reactor Wire): 0.00400
    Joyetech Format: 0400

    Platinum: 0.00392
    Joyetech Format: 0392

    TitaniumGrade1: 0.00366 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    Joyetech Format: 0366

    TitaniumGrade1: 0.00350 (According to the SX Mini Manual, @DJLsbVapes, @TheBloke, other sources)
    Joyetech Format: 0350
    Reliant/SXK Format: 40

    TitaniumGrade1 Balazsk's Special "Dry Burning" TCR used with a temp of 230C to 300C (For Dry Burn Cleaning Not Vaping): 0.00725 (According to @balazsk)

    TitaniumGrade1 Averaged from 8 primary vape-range sample points from the Ames Lab report: 0.0036725 (According to @BigEgo) :headbang: Newly Added
    Joyetech Format: 0367

    TitaniumGrade1 @ 233C/450F (for vapes below 260C/500F): 0.0036700 (According to @BigEgo) :headbang: Newly Added
    Joyetech Format: 0367

    TitaniumGrade2: 0.003525
    Joyetech Format: 0353

    Silver: 0.00380
    Joyetech Format: 0380

    Gold: 0.00340
    Joyetech Format: 0340

    NiFe30 (Resistherm): 0.00320
    Joyetech Format: 0320
    Reliant/SXK Format: 37

    SS410: 0.00155
    Joyetech Format: 0155

    SS430: 0.00138
    Joyetech Format: 0138
    Reliant/SXK Format: 15 (As tested by @f1vefour)

    Invar 36 / Nilo 36 / Pernifer 36: 0.001116
    Joyetech Format: 0112

    SS304: 0.001016 (According to Steam-Engine)
    Joyetech Format: 0102

    SS304: 0.00105 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
    Joyetech Format: 0105

    SS304 @ 230C/450F: 0.00105 (According to @TheBloke)
    Joyetech Format: 0105
    Reliant/SXK Format: 12

    SS316L: 0.000879 (According to Steam-Engine)
    Joyetech Format: 0088

    SS316L: 0.00092 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
    Joyetech Format: 0092

    SS316L on Cuboid: 0.00108 Accuracy-compensated for use on Joyetech's Cuboid, FW v3.10 (According to @DJLsbVapes and his thermocouple probe tests)
    Joyetech Format: 0108 :headbang: Newly Added

    SS316: 0.00088 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    Joyetech Format: 0088

    SS316: 0.000915 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
    Joyetech Format: 0092

    SS316 @ 230C/450F: 0.000913 (According to @TheBloke)
    Joyetech Format: 0091
    Reliant/SXK Format: 10

    SS317L: 0.00094 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    Joyetech Format: 0094

    SS317L: 0.00088 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
    Joyetech Format: 0088

    SS317: 0.000875 (According to @DJLsbVapes)
    Joyetech Format: 0088

    Nichrome: 0.00040 (According to @DJLsbVapes)
    Joyetech Format: 0040

    Nichrome N60 (C): 0.000178
    Joyetech Format: 0018

    Nichrome N80 (A): 0.000112
    Joyetech Format: 0011
     
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  16. dleister1981

    dleister1981 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    Michigan USA
    this really needs a sticky
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Hitcat44

    Hitcat44 mere Pawn in Game of Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2015
    Ft. Vape-WKY
    +1 :thumb:
     
  18. Tim Jenson

    Tim Jenson Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 27, 2015
    Could you add the Vaporesso Ceramic cCell Coils, I would appreciate it?
     
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  19. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    They are really weird. You have to turn them up to near 600F to get a decent vape because of the way the coil is sintered into the ceramic. So, you really can't measure the temp of vaporization by knowing the temp of the coil.

    I don't know what the solution is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Tim Jenson

    Tim Jenson Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 27, 2015
    Thanks for letting me know. I'd be curious if you've used the coil and if you have how do vape with them?
     
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