The Ultimate TCR List

[VapingTurtle]

TCR may be linear or it may be a curve. It is not going to vary randomly from point to point on the temp spectrum. The change is always going to be in the same direction, whether constant or accelerating or decelerating.

BigEgo said, "Based on their tables, I ran the numbers and got the following for 'specimen 1'." Most likely an error while 'running numbers', or typing them in after they ran away. Or Ames made an error in their report for the AEC. Scary.

Anywho, it was a nice exercise. And useful thought.

 

[pevinsghost]

TCR may be linear or it may be a curve. It is not going to vary randomly from point to point on the temp spectrum. The change is always going to be in the same direction, whether constant or accelerating or decelerating.

BigEgo said, "Based on their tables, I ran the numbers and got the following for 'specimen 1'." Most likely an error while 'running numbers', or typing them in after they ran away. Or Ames made an error in their report for the AEC. Scary.

Anywho, it was a nice exercise. And useful thought.

TCR will generally increase, but a decrease at some spots on the curve is not impossible.

The resistance coefficient of temperature is related to the size coefficient of temperature.

As things heat up, they expand, and as they cool, they contract... except for water which stops contracting and starts expanding as it cools below 4°C and other materials that can crystallize.

Like water's reaction as it cools, different materials can have different reactions at different temperatures. This is especially true of mixed materials, which can have different inter-material reactions at different temperatures.

 

[BigEgo]

No it is not always linear. But, when it is not linear it is a smooth curve, not random jumps and dips.

In the paper, they explain some of the discontinuities of the curve (starting on page 65 of the report).

 

[edyle]

the actual value of the tcr depends on whether you are using farenheit or celcius

 

[BigEgo]

the actual value of the tcr depends on whether you are using farenheit or celcius

No, it doesn't.

 

[Hitcat44]

Nope,,,, But, what if using Holmans

 

[edyle]

No, it doesn't.

Resistivity and Temperature Coefficient at 20 C
Material Resistivity ρ
(ohm m) Temperature
coefficient α
per degree C Conductivity σ
x 107 /Ωm Ref
Silver 1.59 x10-8 .0038 6.29 3
Copper 1.68 x10-8 .00386 5.95 3
Copper, annealed 1.72 x10-8 .00393 5.81 2
Aluminum 2.65 x10-8 .00429 3.77 1
Tungsten 5.6 x10-8 .0045 1.79 1
Iron 9.71 x10-8 .00651 1.03 1
Platinum 10.6 x10-8 .003927 0.943 1
Manganin 48.2 x10-8 .000002 0.207 1
Lead 22 x10-8 ... 0.45 1
Mercury 98 x10-8 .0009 0.10 1
Nichrome
(Ni,Fe,Cr alloy) 100 x10-8 .0004 0.10 1
Constantan 49 x10-8 ... 0.20 1
Carbon*
(graphite) 3-60 x10-5 -.0005 ... 1
Germanium* 1-500 x10-3 -.05 ... 1
Silicon* 0.1-60 ... -.07 ... 1
Glass 1-10000 x109 ... ... 1
Quartz
(fused) 7.5 x1017 ... ... 1
Hard rubber 1-100 x1013 ... ... 1
*The resistivity of semiconductors depends strongly on the presence of impurities in the material, a fact which makes them useful in solid state electronics.

References:

1. Giancoli, Douglas C., Physics, 4th Ed, Prentice Hall, (1995).

2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 64th ed.

3. Wikipedia, Electrical resistivity and conductivity.

Resistivity discussion
Resistivity and conductivity of the elements
Index

Tables

Reference
Giancoli
HyperPhysics***** Electricity and Magnetism Go Back

The standard tcr is in kelvin.
that boils down to be celcius degrees.

So far I havent seen any examples that use farenheit.

resistivity is measured in : ohm meter
and the value does not depend on whether you measure in celcius or farenhiet; perhaps that is what you were thinking of.


temperature coeficient of resistivity is measured in: per degree;
ie: 1/kelvin
it can also be specified in : per degree celcius, or per degree farenheit.

 

[HolmanGT]

Nope,,,, But, what if using Holmans

OK -- Hitcat,

Inquiring minds want to know, what the He!! is a "Holman"

 

[Hitcat44]

Lawdy my Brother,,, your memory worse than that of my poor ol' Battle-battered head?
A Reference to a Series of Posts long long ago (somewhere around the 100 page mark me thinks?) in the Ti Wire vaping & Safety Thread during one of our many light-hearted and whimsical asides. During a discussion on something about which was the most accurate Method to measure Temp in TC Algorithms. We got off onto Kelvin and some other more recent/obscure Scale and then someone (maybe Tony or Scotty) coined "Holmans" in your Honor. I know you were there and contributing. At least I'm relatively sure

 

[JimScotty0]

Lawdy my Brother,,, your memory worse than that of my poor ol' Battle-battered head?
A Reference to a Series of Posts long long ago (somewhere around the 100 page mark me thinks?) in the Ti Wire vaping & Safety Thread during one of our many light-hearted and whimsical asides. During a discussion on something about which was the most accurate Method to measure Temp in TC Algorithms. We got off onto Kelvin and some other more recent/obscure Scale and then someone (maybe Tony or Scotty) coined "Holmans" in your Honor. I know you were there and contributing. At least I'm relatively sure

It is called the Holman scale if my memory serves me. It measures vaping sensation and has positive and negative points on the scale. Your results are best when tested at room temperature. [emoji12]

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

 

[HolmanGT]

Lawdy my Brother,,, your memory worse than that of my poor ol' Battle-battered head?
A Reference to a Series of Posts long long ago (somewhere around the 100 page mark me thinks?) in the Ti Wire Vaping & Safety Thread during one of our many light-hearted and whimsical asides. During a discussion on something about which was the most accurate Method to measure Temp in TC Algorithms. We got off onto Kelvin and some other more recent/obscure Scale and then someone (maybe Tony or Scotty) coined "Holmans" in your Honor. I know you were there and contributing. At least I'm relatively sure

It is called the Holman scale if my memory serves me. It measures vaping sensation and has positive and negative points on the scale. Your results are best when tested at room temperature. [emoji12]

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

Hitcat,
No battle fatigue here I was an Airdale Sailor, what would we know about "Battles".

Hitcat & Jim,

I vaguely remember that episode but my "poor and just old head" can hardly remember 10 post back much less a 100 pages.

Actually I was hoping some one would just tell me what it was about and not bring up the subject of modest term memory failure.

Thanks guys I think I am going to go to bed early and sob in my pillow and think about the good Ol' days when EVERYTHING functioned as it was designed to.

 

[Hitcat44]

It's All Good my Friends. Hell, I knew there was a "Story" but couldn't remember the Details. No reason to mourn anything lost.... I tell myself I still remember quite nicely. I just wisely & purposefully have chosen to not care anymore . Better things to devote my Intellect and energies to than the trivial and otherwise meaningless Details
ie. who and where I am and what for

 

[Adam Belcher]

The ultimate TCR list -- The kick off.

I created this to help de-clutter some other ECF threads, and so that we can have a focused discussion.

It's for mods that employ linear, single-value TCR approximations (not .csv breakpoint curves).

I'll keep this first post updated as consensus matures in the thread below.

Where there were discrepancies, I cited the sources. It's up to you to decide which values to try.

Nickel DH: "0704" [0.007036]

Ni200: "0600" [0.00600] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Ni200: "0620" [0.00620] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)

Nifethal 70 (Alloy120): "0525" [0.00525]

NiFe30 (StealthVape): "0500" [0.00500]

Tungsten: "0450" [0.00450]

Nifethal 52 (Alloy52): "0404" [0.004036]

NiFe (Reactor Wire): "0400" [0.00400]

TitaniumGrade1: "0366" [0.00366] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
TitaniumGrade1: "0350" [0.00350] (According to the SX Mini Manual, @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)

TitaniumGrade2: "0353" [0.003525]

NiFe30 (Resistherm): "0320" [0.00320]

SS410: "0155" [0.00155]

SS430: "0138" [0.00138]

Invar 36 / Nilo 36 / Pernifer 36: "0112" [0.001116]

SS304: "0102" [0.001016] (According to Steam-Engine)
SS304: "0105" [0.00105] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)

SS316L: "0088" [0.000879] (According to Steam-Engine)
SS316L: "0092" [0.00092] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)

SS316: "0088" [0.00088] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
SS316: "0092" [0.000915] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)

SS317L: "0094" [0.00094] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
SS317L: "0088" [0.00088] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)

SS317: "0088" [0.000875] (According to @DJLsbVapes)

Complicated stuff. I've tried 0092 on rx 200 with 316L wire and hits temp protection instantly? It works great on standard ss mode though. The tcr on 316 and 316L seems to have virtually the same value so as rx has 316 as it's default I should be fine just using that? Cheers Adam.

 

[Jalcide]

Complicated stuff. I've tried 0092 on rx 200 with 316L wire and hits temp protection instantly? It works great on standard ss mode though. The tcr on 316 and 316L seems to have virtually the same value so as rx has 316 as it's default I should be fine just using that? Cheers Adam.

Hey, cheers. Temp protection hitting early is usually normal and just a sign of it working correctly. Especially for temps under 500F. It's (of course) not cutting power off completely, just regulating it. The smaller the build, the faster it might kick in (less mass to heat).

Even when vapor production is lower than expected, it can often just mean a person enjoys a hotter, more aggressive vape. The only way to align our wishy-washy notions of temperature expectations, with reality, is to use a calibrated build and to get to know it.

The RX200's SS316 setting is not an accurate TCR, it's a slightly more aggressive setting. A more accurate TCR is likely to feel underpowered.

On top of that inaccuracy, the RX200 isn't perfect in its TCR representation compared against published material lab reports. It's in the ballpark, but not precise.

So these values are just guidelines, as of this time of writing. Perhaps in the future there will be a way to calibrate a mod in a way that aligns its notion of TCR with the calibration.

If you're interested in accuracy, for science and curiosity's sake, you can do a water calibration test (setting TCR such that boiling off water reads 212F) and get in the ballpark of what the correct TCR is for a given wire (well, a particular mod's notion of "correct" TCR).

Otherwise, just pick a reasonable setting or TCR and dial it in with temp, would be my recommendation. If you get a system that works for you with the RX200's default SS316 setting, use it, and then you'll have three free TCR slots for other things.

 

[Jalcide]

Updated! Additions or changes since last update will have a icon next to them:

Nickel DH: 0.007036
Joyetech Format: 0704

Ni200: 0.00600 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0600
Reliant/SXK Format: 69

Ni200: 0.00620 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0620

Ni200, Curve Accurate @ 230C/450F: 0.0054 (According to @TheBloke)
Joyetech Format: 0540
Reliant/SXK Format: 62

Ni200, @ A "moderate" (below 260C/500F) vape range averaged from Special Metals Corp: 0.0055 (According to @BigEgo and averages he calculated from the Special Metals Corporation spec sheet source) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0550

Nifethal 70 (Alloy120): 0.00525
Joyetech Format: 0525

Kanthal NiFe70: 0.0052 (According to @TheBloke)
Joyetech Format: 0520
Reliant/SXK Format: 59

NiFe30 (StealthVape): 0.00500
Joyetech Format: 0500

Iron: 0.00500
Joyetech Format: 0500

Tungsten: 0.00450
Joyetech Format: 0450

Tungsten, the Atlus by Guo Coil-less Tank's CVU "chip" (a trace wire heating element encased in ceramic): 0.0031 (According to its developer @DavidGuo)
Joyetech Format: 0310

Nifethal 52 (Alloy52): 0.004036
Joyetech Format: 0404

Kanthal NiFe52: 0.004 (According to @TheBloke)
Joyetech Format: 0400
Reliant/SXK Format: 46

NiFe (Reactor Wire): 0.00400
Joyetech Format: 0400

Platinum: 0.00392
Joyetech Format: 0392

TitaniumGrade1: 0.00366 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0366

TitaniumGrade1: 0.00350 (According to the SX Mini Manual, @DJLsbVapes, @TheBloke, other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0350
Reliant/SXK Format: 40

TitaniumGrade1 Balazsk's Special "Dry Burning" TCR used with a temp of 230C to 300C (For Dry Burn Cleaning Not Vaping): 0.00725 (According to @balazsk)

TitaniumGrade1 Averaged from 8 primary vape-range sample points from the Ames Lab report: 0.0036725 (According to @BigEgo) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0367

TitaniumGrade1 @ 233C/450F (for vapes below 260C/500F): 0.0036700 (According to @BigEgo) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0367

TitaniumGrade2: 0.003525
Joyetech Format: 0353

Silver: 0.00380
Joyetech Format: 0380

Gold: 0.00340
Joyetech Format: 0340

NiFe30 (Resistherm): 0.00320
Joyetech Format: 0320
Reliant/SXK Format: 37

SS410: 0.00155
Joyetech Format: 0155

SS430: 0.00138
Joyetech Format: 0138
Reliant/SXK Format: 15 (As tested by @f1vefour)

Invar 36 / Nilo 36 / Pernifer 36: 0.001116
Joyetech Format: 0112

SS304: 0.001016 (According to Steam-Engine)
Joyetech Format: 0102

SS304: 0.00105 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0105

SS304 @ 230C/450F: 0.00105 (According to @TheBloke)
Joyetech Format: 0105
Reliant/SXK Format: 12

SS316L: 0.000879 (According to Steam-Engine)
Joyetech Format: 0088

SS316L: 0.00092 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0092

SS316L on Cuboid: 0.00108 Accuracy-compensated for use on Joyetech's Cuboid, FW v3.10 (According to @DJLsbVapes and his thermocouple probe tests)
Joyetech Format: 0108 Newly Added

SS316: 0.00088 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0088

SS316: 0.000915 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0092

SS316 @ 230C/450F: 0.000913 (According to @TheBloke)
Joyetech Format: 0091
Reliant/SXK Format: 10

SS317L: 0.00094 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0094

SS317L: 0.00088 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0088

SS317: 0.000875 (According to @DJLsbVapes)
Joyetech Format: 0088

Nichrome: 0.00040 (According to @DJLsbVapes)
Joyetech Format: 0040

Nichrome N60 (C): 0.000178
Joyetech Format: 0018

Nichrome N80 (A): 0.000112
Joyetech Format: 0011

 

[dleister1981]

this really needs a sticky

 

[Hitcat44]

this really needs a sticky

+1

 

[Tim Jenson]

Since ECF won't allow me to edit the original post past a certain time, the updates have to be "bumped" like this.

Additions or changes since last update will have a icon next to them:

Nickel DH: 0.007036
Joyetech Format: 0704

Ni200: 0.00600 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0600
Reliant/SXK Format: 69

Ni200: 0.00620 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0620

Ni200, Curve Accurate @ 230C/450F: 0.0054 (According to @TheBloke) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0540
Reliant/SXK Format: 62

Nifethal 70 (Alloy120): 0.00525
Joyetech Format: 0525

Kanthal NiFe70: 0.0052 (According to @TheBloke) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0520
Reliant/SXK Format: 59

NiFe30 (StealthVape): 0.00500
Joyetech Format: 0500

Iron: 0.00500 Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0500

Tungsten: 0.00450
Joyetech Format: 0450

Tungsten, the Atlus by Guo Coil-less Tank's CVU "chip" (a trace wire heating element encased in ceramic): 0.0031 (According to its developer @DavidGuo) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0310

Nifethal 52 (Alloy52): 0.004036
Joyetech Format: 0404

Kanthal NiFe52: 0.004 (According to @TheBloke) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0400
Reliant/SXK Format: 46

NiFe (Reactor Wire): 0.00400
Joyetech Format: 0400

Platinum: 0.00392 Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0392

TitaniumGrade1: 0.00366 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0366

TitaniumGrade1: 0.00350 (According to the SX Mini Manual, @DJLsbVapes, @TheBloke, other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0350
Reliant/SXK Format: 40

TitaniumGrade1 Balazsk's Special "Dry Burning" TCR used with a temp of 230C to 300C (For Dry Burn Cleaning Not Vaping): 0.00725 (According to @balazsk) Newly Added

TitaniumGrade2: 0.003525
Joyetech Format: 0353

Silver: 0.00380 Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0380

Gold: 0.00340 Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0340

NiFe30 (Resistherm): 0.00320
Joyetech Format: 0320
Reliant/SXK Format: 37

SS410: 0.00155
Joyetech Format: 0155

SS430: 0.00138
Joyetech Format: 0138
Reliant/SXK Format: 15 (As tested by @f1vefour)

Invar 36 / Nilo 36 / Pernifer 36: 0.001116
Joyetech Format: 0112

SS304: 0.001016 (According to Steam-Engine)
Joyetech Format: 0102

SS304: 0.00105 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0105

SS304 @ 230C/450F: 0.00105 (According to @TheBloke) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0105
Reliant/SXK Format: 12

SS316L: 0.000879 (According to Steam-Engine)
Joyetech Format: 0088

SS316L: 0.00092 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0092

SS316: 0.00088 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0088

SS316: 0.000915 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0092

SS316 @ 230C/450F: 0.000913 (According to @TheBloke) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0091
Reliant/SXK Format: 10

SS317L: 0.00094 (According to Steam-Engine.org)
Joyetech Format: 0094

SS317L: 0.00088 (According to @DJLsbVapes and other sources)
Joyetech Format: 0088

SS317: 0.000875 (According to @DJLsbVapes)
Joyetech Format: 0088

Nichrome: 0.00040 (According to @DJLsbVapes) Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0040

Nichrome N60 (C): 0.000178 Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0018

Nichrome N80 (A): 0.000112 Newly Added
Joyetech Format: 0011

Could you add the Vaporesso Ceramic cCell Coils, I would appreciate it?

 

[BigEgo]

Could you add the Vaporesso Ceramic cCell Coils, I would appreciate it?

They are really weird. You have to turn them up to near 600F to get a decent vape because of the way the coil is sintered into the ceramic. So, you really can't measure the temp of vaporization by knowing the temp of the coil.

I don't know what the solution is.

 

[Tim Jenson]

They are really weird. You have to turn them up to near 600F to get a decent vape because of the way the coil is sintered into the ceramic. So, you really can't measure the temp of vaporization by knowing the temp of the coil.

I don't know what the solution is.

Thanks for letting me know. I'd be curious if you've used the coil and if you have how do vape with them?