The Winston Man speaks

[jtpjc]

Don't know if this was published on this forum before (moderators, feel free to remove if it was), but here it is:

Former Winston Man Attacks Tobacco, Anti-Smoking and E-Cig Industry "Bull...."

 

[rolygate]

It clearly shows his frustration at both not being paid for his lobbying efforts by people who could clearly afford it, and the way the trade group he belonged to managed their affairs in general. But he is an old pro in a nascent industry, and unsurprisingly severely miffed at the way things are being done.

There is a difference in the flavor of the various trade groups. It is very saddening to see that the US industry, with its giant resources and massive e-cig market of at least $100m a year, has not been able to organize effectively. On the surface it seems that internecine strife takes precedence over all else. In the end these things need strong leadership and clear vision. That just doesn't seem to be in place here.

 

[rothenbj]

jt, thanks for putting up the link, it's the first I saw of it.

 

[VapApe]

What I got out of it was he was on big tobaccos dime for a wile.

He then quit smoking and then drank the anti tobacco koolaid and was on there dime didn't like it after a wile.

Then he found vapeing and seeing there was no dime to be had he back away from it.
It seems to me that the dime was more important than the cause to him. Just my take on it.

 

[Thulium]

Then he found vapeing and seeing there was no dime to be had he back away from it.
It seems to me that the dime was more important than the cause to him. Just my take on it.

I understand why it might appear that way, but really he's saying quite the opposite. David Goerlitz really has seen the true underbelly of all four sides: Big tobacco, tobacco Control (aka Big Pharma & ANTZ), WannabeBig E-cig, and "Grassroots"/Vapers clubs. The problem is that promoting true Tobacco Harm Reduction is a very NON-PROFIT in nature, and that doesn't mix well with the nature of Big Business OR Big Government--the fact that supposedly "public health" organizations are financially dependent on continued smoking (and diseases caused by smoking) is the dirty little secret that keeps Old Money in the hands of those who believe they deserve it.

 

[rothenbj]

Vap, it really is insightful to read what David has said about the history of this issue and he may be the only person alive that has seen the three industries from the inside. Unfortunately, as Thad pointed out, harm reduction does not generate any serious cash flow.

You may want to take a look at this link- Tobacco Vapor Electronic Cigarette Association

Notice the membership. This organization, run by Ray Story of infamous Smoking Everywhere, has limited membership with a fairly narrow view of the E cig world. That view isn't particularly attractive to the world that exists here. David took a job with TVECA because he felt he could make a difference (and as you said, make some coin). However, he saw fairly quickly that, as in every industry, the road to the money paved the message.

His view on how to solve the "smoking problem" is quite simple and pure, reduce the number of kids that ever start. He doesn't like the denormalization efforts being devised against current smokers- no housing, no jobs and no place to legally smoke are all, apparently, long term goals. They might not be able to make smoking illegal but they sure can make life miserable if you want to continue to do so.

The only criticism I'd have is that he didn't put himself in a financial position that he could take his show on the road as a member of the fine group that are addressing tobacco harm reduction. He could be a major hammer and I think he'd be a smart marketer of the philosophy.

 

[VapApe]

Well my view did come from this one articular. And I have been know to be a cranky old F from time to time ;-)

That said David did quit smoking good for him. And they say if you can make a living doing something you believe in your ahead of the curve. When the groups he believed in took a left turn he had the guts to back away. So again good for him.

 

[Baldr]

He's an actor. He was an actor working for big tobacco, playing the part that they gave him.

Then he was an an actor working for the anti-smokers. He played the part they gave him, including testifying in court while spitting out whatever lines they had given him.

He made a lot of money with both of those.

Then he thought he could parley that into being some kind of cheerleader for vaping, and when he didn't get paid a lot, he got ...... off.

Big woop. I haven't heard anything about him that doesn't make him sound like a dishonest ........

 

[rothenbj]

Baldr, I guess you just haven't looked hard enough.

 

[Hiryu]

I found this interview fascinating. Personally, I believe those who are posting here against Goerlitz either don't understand his message at all or are just having a petty tantrum because he didn't come out as a cheerleader for our PV's.

The fact of the matter is that he has several good points about the current state of affairs in the e-cig world. I agree he chose to associate, through no fault of his own, with the wrong group of people, but that does not make his opinion any less valid. After all, any group, association or business will always be invariably judged by its worse elements.

He is right that e-cig vendors, distributors and manufacturers need to get over their petty and greedy squabbles in order to keep the whole business going. Or as he put it: "The people behind me were making things worse with their aggression and inability to understand what truly was at stake in the fight to save the e-cig industry."

I think we can all agree PV's are facing an uphill battle against Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, the ANTZ and the people who have been influenced by all those groups. His criticism is not a put down to the e-cig industry. I think it is a very much needed reality check for everyone involved, as well as a call to action for those who really want to save the industry instead of making a quick buck by selling a 510 kit for $200

 

[Bill Godshall]

I wasn’t aware that Mr. Goerlitz or the TVECA did advocacy to keep e-cigarettes legal to sell or use (other than answer calls from several news reporters), but I continue sending various folks at TVECA lots of information about legislative and regulatory threats to e-cigarettes, lots of news articles, and requests for them to do advocacy.

While Goerlitz has a long track record of self promotion and publicly trashing his former employers, I'm not aware of anything he ever did that actually benefitted public health (or e-cigarette vendors or consumers). When Goerlitz worked for anti tobacco groups to give presentations trashing RJ Reynolds, virtually all of his slides were pictures of himself and virtually everything he said was about himself.

Although Goerlitz promoted himself as The Winston Man, I consider another former Winston advertising model (Alan Landers) to have been the Winston Man who was an effective public health advocate. After suffering a heart attack from many years of smoking, Lander's sued RJ Reynolds. Unfortunatly, Landers died several weeks before his trial was scheduled to begin (after waiting years due to delay tactics by Reynolds).

 

[DaveP]

Business is all about making money and that won't stop anytime soon. Big Tobacco won't be into Ecigs until it's obvious that the tobacco market is incapable of making big money anymore. Most of BT's business is overseas nowadays, anyway, where laws haven't restricted or killed the market.

Ecigs are a good thing, the product just wasn't as profitable for this guy as BT was. It's still a small market and the funds are limited, especially with all the basic hardware being made offshore for the first 2 or 3 years.

This guy was a part of huge corporate structures that threw money around like drunk sailors to fund their productions. Being the star of big tobacco is much different than being an Ecig advocate in a world where anything that produces something that looks like smoke is frowned upon. He got bored in a hurry.