Theory on KR808's vs Mods

[NoMatches]

So, now I have an Infinity and a Buzz, along with some 808 PT's, KR808 manuals and automatics. And I now have a voltmeter. Let the experimenting begin.

My manual KR808's vape pretty well for about 50 vapes. Then they fall off a cliff. They measure out at 4.1 volts with a full charge. After about 50 vapes, they go down to about 3.9 volts. Can 0.2 volts make such a big difference in performance? Now, I adjust my Buzz to 3.9 volts, and it is still kicking hiney. Why the big difference?

I'm thinking the voltmeter has a high impedance input. It draws no load on the battery. When you vape, the load is there, and the battery has to generate some amperage. When it's loaded like that, the voltage drops. While it may still measure 3.9 volts, under a load it drops far lower than that.

The Buzz and the Infinity have voltage regulators built in (not to mention a boatload of more stored energy for vaping) while KR808 batteries do not. I theorize that the KR808's drop in voltage significantly when under a load after some use, while the voltmeter would indicate this should not be the case when they are measure in a static condition, under no loading.

3.9 volts on an unregulated KR808 is NOT the same as a Buzz operating at 3.9 volts. The voltage on the Buzz will not drop under a load. Now, I cannot prove any of this without some sort of parallel volt meter hook up, am I smart or dopey? I think I'm smart, but I can take the truth! Edumacate me!

 

[Ruppy]

Yup your right on the money NM. The load of the atty will make a huge difference to a non regulated PV. I actually saw a volt meter somewhere that has a atty connector on top allowing it to measure with a load I know Parallelx makes them but IDK if he sells them. Trades them for BWB malty sometimes in the classifieds.

 

[Bovinia]

You are smart...and correct! It is the regulator that makes the difference. As you theorize, under load your regular batts drop voltage. Your regulator in the Buzz and Infinity delivers the set voltage even under load.

There are plenty of folks here who can explain it better and give you the formula, but I know that's how it works

 

[5cardstud]

I can measure how many amps a carto is drawing under a load with my passthrough.

 

[NoMatches]

OK, I thought as much. I do have a fairly solid background in electronics, albeit quite dated, especailly in radar and communications stuff, but batteries are a technology I've never gotten largely involved with, and they are a science and discipline unto their own. I guess I could say I know just enough to be dangerous!

I do like the technology and science behind PV's. That I think is largely in part that I beleive vaping can save thousands, tens of thousands of lives. The other part is it finally gave me the tools I needed to quit smoking, something I though quite impossible personally not 6 weeks ago now. That, and they are cool gadgets! Vaping is fun as much as it is a life saving endevour!

5 card, how do you make that measurement? Is it an in line amp meter of some kind? I know the ONLY way to measure amperage is with some sort of in line device. Voltage can be tapped (monitored, measured) off in parrallel, but not amps. That has to be in series.

I'm sure Mike has custom made gizmos to measure all of this stuff. He could not design and produce these bad boys without that sort of data. Man, I'd love to see his lab. I'd have a field day. I would drive him carzy for sure!

 

[BuzzKill]

Just solder a 2.5 ohm 5 watt resistor across the voltmeter leads , then you will always be measuring UNDER LOAD ! or solder another connector to the input to the volt meter and screw on an atomizer.

I have one of those ones that has an input and output conn. on it , we looked at making them but they are WAY to time intensive to bother with .

 

[Ruppy]

Thanks for the info mike. Saved me from looking for the data sheet

 

[NoMatches]

Just solder a 2.5 ohm 5 watt resistor across the voltmeter leads , then you will always be measuring UNDER LOAD ! or solder another connector to the input to the volt meter and screw on an atomizer.

I have one of those ones that has an input and output conn. on it , we looked at making them but they are WAY to time intensive to bother with .

I can certainly understand that, the time, and just how many vape geeks would even want one? Even I am not curious enough to investigate that far, unless I was beta testing somthing and needed that data. Just understanding the dynamics of this stuff is enough for me. I'm not designing or producing anything. Spending money to satisy a curiousity is not in my budgeting plans! Notcigs does that for me!

Man, I do love these PV's. I just can't figure out which is my favorite, the Buzz or the Infinity.

 

[BuzzKill]

As a rule of thumb the lower the resistance of the load the lower the voltage from an un regulated battery ! It is NOT LINEAR there is a curve to it .

with a regulator that curve or variation goes away !! up to a point ( this depends on the specs of the regulator ! and if it has over current protection etc. ) this is why a regulated device is consistent and your Ego is not because of the regulation .

 

[NoMatches]

Clearly not linear, and without data, just based on vaping, I'd say it's an extreme logrithmic curve, one that hangs in at near flat for a short time and then drops like a rock off a cliff. I wonder what the constant is on the 808 batts. I use to love this sort of data gathering and testing when I was in defense electorics. Experimenting with different devices and circuits, but the days of simple analog electronics is almost a bygone thing.

RF stuff and low frequency microwave is one thing, which was my specialty, but when 10KW of 40 giga cycles has a DC short to ground and doesn't blow up.... the physics are nuts. You gotta have a PhD. 180 deegree hybrid transformers with a center conductor DC short to ground powering kilo watts... the technology passed my education and my level of understanding.

Batteries.... I can wrap my head around. Somewhat....

 

[Ruppy]

I can certainly understand that, the time, and just how many vape geeks would even want one? Even I am not curious enough to investigate that far, unless I was beta testing somthing and needed that data. Just understanding the dynamics of this stuff is enough for me. I'm not designing or producing anything. Spending money to satisy a curiousity is not in my budgeting plans! Notcigs does that for me!

Man, I do love these PV's. I just can't figure out which is my favorite, the Buzz or the Infinity.

LOL I want one! And I shall build it! LMAO Yeah I have issues........My wife just told me so.........

 

[NoMatches]

Ruppy, we all have "issues". Every single one of us! Some issues can help us, some issues do not. I think yer OK here.... LOL.

 

[cappadoc]

I take offense to that, NM.

I do not have any "issues".

Yes, I do.

No, I don't.

Yes, I do.

Somebody, stop the voices.

 

[5cardstud]

What is an issue. If it's free I want an issue, where do I sign up at? Can you vape issues? What do they taste like?

 

[Bovinia]

I thought this was the gathering place for people with issues

 

[Wharf Rat]

Here is the Parallelx2 meter.

And with a IKV 808 mega @ 3.1 ohm.

 

[Ruppy]

Ooooo Me like I need a tiny box now.......

 

[NoMatches]

Nifty! Where did you buy that? I guess I have issues...

 

[5cardstud]

Well I'm like Nom. What do I need to know the level it is at unless collecting Data? My throat and tongue know the level it likes better than my eyes. If it tastes and feels like it needs to go higher my finger comes into play. It turns the little turning thingy up and if my tongue and throat feel and taste that it's to high my finger, sometimes thumb, turns it down.
If I do need to know the one I got from Mike works fine plus I also have my multimeter.

 

[FranC]

Issues? Where are the issues??