There is no law against buying fake purses, so why does ECF not allow clones?

[KewelGirl19]

That's not a counterfeit. That is a clone.

A counterfeit would be an ego battery with a joyetech logo, that isn't made by joyetech.

I have no idea why this is such a hard distinction for some to make.

Maybe my analogy will make sense:

"Egos" are like "blue jeans". Although "blue jeans" were invented by Jacob Davis and Levi Strauss in 1873, Thousands of companies make jeans, that are blue and are made out of denim.

But if somebody were selling jeans that were blue denim, and putting the Levi's tag on them, that would be counterfeiting.

Popular things are copied and cloned all the time. It's not just ecigs or stuff made in china. It's fine to buy blue jeans, they all look a little different from each other if you really know your jeans and jean history and companies. (I do.) That Wrangler "W" on the pockets is very particular to Wrangler, and there are jeans that have a W on the back, at least they try to make one with stitching BUT they do not carry the "Wrangler" tag on them. Because they aren't wranglers, they are just "western style blue jeans."

edit: P.S. Any real cowgirl/cowboy worth their salt KNOWS what a genuine pair of Wrangler Slim Cowboy Cut jeans looks like. On or off the shelf --- Besides just the way they make a .... look.......

That was kind of my point… I know they aren't counterfeit, but they ARE clones and the rules say no clones… I realize it sounds like a dumb question, but I can't even access the classifieds quite yet to find out for myself.

 

[ISGRidge]

Call it theft,terrorism whatever!!!!
You all bought clone .... in ur life... The clone are just a copy they are not the exact thing and not price the same way.. If u have the money then buy authentic, if ur broke like me,,I willmake sure my $100 will go a long way, manufacturers should lower the prices and help me out... Can't afford 289 the boss mod by cartel mod,, that's way over price...peace
[B]Sent from my
LUMIA 1520[/B]

I fear for our future. LOL

 

[ISGRidge]

So you support theft of intellectual property so long as it is done in a manner that takes advantage of the high cost of legally seeking protection from a government.

In my book, theft is theft, I don't need a law to tell me its wrong to steal.

I mentioned at some point the cost of seeking patents, its around $20,000 here in the states, and a US patent only protects you in the US. Assuming somewhat similar costs in every country, seeking patent protection would cost many millions of dollars.

Couple this with the size of the market and you have just added something north of $300 to the cost of each and every patented bit of vape gear you could own.

If we tack on the current price of authentic mods to that $300 your looking at a range of $350-$30,300 for authentic mods and atties.

No modder in the world has recouped enough money to even begin to get world wide patent protection.

Even going on the assumption that they would, that has never stopped clones from existing. Or people from buying them.

Buying a clone is taking unfair advantage of someone without the wherewithal to protect themselves. Its having sex with a passed out girl at a party, its taking candy from a child, its plain old wrong any way you slice it.

There is no justification for taking advantage of someone simply because you can get away with it.

Sure modders could just not produce mods, and girls could just not attend parties, and kids could just stick by dad, but they shouldn't have to modify their lives to gain protection from the lowest of the low.

People who clone are thieves, people who support cloners are too, I don't particularly care if you find a way to do so that slips past the legal wording of theft, a thief is a thief.

Maurice

Agreed! Come on people, if they want to make something similar to or better than a well known brand and sell it for less, have at it! By saying that they are a clone of the ABC brand model, they are using the ABC brand to sell their product. That is not legal in any part of the world that I'm aware of. If you have a good product at a better price, put your own damn name on it and spend your own marketing money on it.

How can so many people here not have a problem with this practice? Do you even know how the man is you're sticking it to? The people being ripped off are the very people who are innovating and making the products that you want to buy in the first place.

 

[Nightshard]

We should have the freedom to choose a pricy original or a cheep clone.
Just as long as we are not sold a fake for the price of an original, it's all good.
The manufacturers are free to sue whoever stole their design and thats between them (not that you'll have much luck suing a company from china).

 

[SnakeFarm]

Um, design?

Sometimes I feel like people have read my thesaurus, but not my dictionary.

The modern mechanical mod was "designed" in 1899. You can not claim to have designed something just because you intend to use it for something else, and carving your name into it makes you more of a vandal than a designer.

It's a flashlight.

 

[joesquid]

I admit I haven't read this entire thread but I have seen it mentioned clones aren't allowed in the classified section. That's not how I read it. Copied from the rules.

17.Counterfeit products will not be allowed to be sold on ECF, no matter if the item is described as such or not (see definitions below). Items being sold should never be misrepresented, for example listing a counterfeit product as the authentic product. Members found knowingly misrepresenting a cloned device as authentic WILL lose their Verified Member status and may risk being banned from ECF. Ads found listing a counterfeit product will be closed and member advised of violation.

Unacceptable
Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica or a very similar copy of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device shape. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.

Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape(unless shape is unique) and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, to include grooves, cutouts, coloring, shape if unique, and/or trademarks.

**As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone.

 

[vapero]

it's not illegal to BUY them but it is illegal to SELL them

 

[SnakeFarm]

it's not illegal to BUY them but it is illegal to SELL them

Cool!

Can you say where I can get a clone of that mod in your profile pic? I'm not willing to pay full price for the original.

 

[skoony]

Their house their rules.
That decision is to protect themselves from potential legal ramifications.
I don't really understand why anyone would to buy of sell a used clone either as new clones are 10 a penny.

its quite simple.
you find a noob and sell him your 20 dollar clone of a 200 dollar authentic for 100 dollars.
regards
mike

 

[skoony]

I admit I haven't read this entire thread but I have seen it mentioned clones aren't allowed in the classified section. That's not how I read it. Copied from the rules.

17.Counterfeit products will not be allowed to be sold on ECF, no matter if the item is described as such or not (see definitions below). Items being sold should never be misrepresented, for example listing a counterfeit product as the authentic product. Members found knowingly misrepresenting a cloned device as authentic WILL lose their Verified Member status and may risk being banned from ECF. Ads found listing a counterfeit product will be closed and member advised of violation.

Unacceptable
Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica or a very similar copy of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device shape. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.

Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape(unless shape is unique) and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, to include grooves, cutouts, coloring, shape if unique, and/or trademarks.

**As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone.

now that makes sense.
cigalikes are clones in as much as the names logo's,colors and sizes slightly vary and are differentiated by brand name.
one however would not clone say V2 or greensmoke because the brand is what distinguishes them.
on the other hand if one copies a more advance mod 1:1 that's counterfeiting as with mods its the specific look and
feel that sets them apart in most cases. there's more money to be made per unit too.

i think the term clone is whats confusing to us.
when i hear clone i think copy as in identical.
am i on the right track here?
regards
mike

 

[j0ker]

I admit I haven't read this entire thread but I have seen it mentioned clones aren't allowed in the classified section. That's not how I read it. Copied from the rules.

17.Counterfeit products will not be allowed to be sold on ECF, no matter if the item is described as such or not (see definitions below). Items being sold should never be misrepresented, for example listing a counterfeit product as the authentic product. Members found knowingly misrepresenting a cloned device as authentic WILL lose their Verified Member status and may risk being banned from ECF. Ads found listing a counterfeit product will be closed and member advised of violation.

Unacceptable
Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica or a very similar copy of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device shape. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.

Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape(unless shape is unique) and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, to include grooves, cutouts, coloring, shape if unique, and/or trademarks.

**As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone.

EDIT: My apologies, I hastily read this post and did not understand the comment correctly! joesquid was correct in his reply and I misread. Sorry for that joesquid and thanks for so politely bringing it to my attention.

If you read this how in the world do you get "mentioned clones aren't allowed"?

I think the problem is, people just are not reading. The analogy Racehorse offered is perfect. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...does-ecf-not-allow-clones-2.html#post14261908

Also, someone mentioned "freedom to choose a pricy original or a cheep clone." and you do have that right. Do you see anywhere that we tell you what you can purchase? NO! It would be ridiculous for us to impose outside restrictions. We do tell you what you are allowed to sell on this privately owned forum. You agreed to abide by the rules that we have established and will establish when creating an account on this forum. You are free to disagree and can try to change things you disagree with but if you break the rule, you will be handled appropriately.

Clone= Acceptable
Counterfeit = Unacceptable

This doesn't even apply to those of you that are not a verified member, so this thread is being closed. If verified members want to continue discussing this matter, feel free to post your concerns in the Classified Suggestions & Questions thread. It's not likely the counterfeit rule will change but feel free to express your concerns.

 

[j0ker]

Edited above post as I misread initially.