Third-Hand Smoke ?

[harmony gardens]

I guess I don't mind stale smoke smell enough to feel that I need to get all uptight about it. oh well,,, shrug,,, I'm just glad I to have a house that has enough distance so that people can smoke in my garage or on my deck without bothering anyone.

I am more concerned about lawn chemicals than smoke smell.

 

[sherid]

What you ex-smokers don't understand is, to a person that has never smoked, second-hand/third-hand smoke has a very strong (and often, unpleasant) odor to it. So to you, that may be a perfectly smell-free blanket. But to us, wow, it stinks up the entire house! (Holds nose)

Just some food for thought. We aren't being fussy or ridiculous, we simply have noses like tracker dogs compared to yours.

So yeah, she had every right to complain about that 3rd-hand-smoke smell. You owe her some quarters for the laundry

So, you were never a smoker?

 

[underwater goddess]

I completely agree with you Dave! As we all know, correlation does NOT equal causation. My father has smoked 4 1/2 packs a day for the last 51 years, no cancer. My mother smoked 2 packs a day for 35 years, no cancer. I lived under their roof for 18 years and have no ill effects at all, and we DO smoke in the house. EDIT: In fact, now that I think about it, I never get sick. I had the flu twice, strep once, chicken pox one, other then that, I've never been sick. Go figure...

So much political bull.... is the reason for smokers getting .... all over.

You were still hurt by it. If you had been taken for study, you would have found that your lungs were absorbing less oxygen per breath than they were supposed to. Luckily for your happiness, your pastime as a kid wasn't swimming or playing sports.

No one saw that your lungs had been disgustingly disfigured, because they were hidden out of sight. What if parents topically applied a substance that visibly did to a kid's skin what the second-hand smoke does to their lungs? Then the kid can argue "it's fine, the damaged skin areas my parents gave me as a kid weren't painful, and I never got sick, and I obviously didn't die".

If parents were to force a kid to swallow a pill that would make their lungs less functional, everyone would call it child abuse. But no one says the same thing about parents smoking around their kids simply because its more "socially acceptable".

There is no need to defend their actions. Your parents should not have done that to you. You did not deserve it. No kid does.

(Steps into time machine, goes back in time, and hands your parents PVs. There...problem solved )

 

[underwater goddess]

So, you were never a smoker?

I never have smoked an analog, and I never will. I hate them.

I have a thing for e-cigs though. I love it when my boyfriend vapes for me!

 

[sherid]

I never have smoked an analog, and I never will. I hate them.

I have a thing for e-cigs though. I love it when my boyfriend vapes for me!

It seems odd that you would be posting here. Are you from the dark side, otherwise known as anti-smoking?

 

[CJsKee]

Sherid--in a word, yes. I don't care for the way she speaks of smokers.

 

[Luisa]

I agree--underwater Goddess is a phony. Note her residence listing. I think she might be a barracuda since she lives "in the dark depths". Also note her join date. Maybe site owner should consider removing her from this site--along with the time wasting silliness of the"BUMPS'.

 

[Captu4ik]

I agree--underwater Goddess is a phony. .

Other Forums have an "Ignore" function for things like that. Couldn't find that here, even though I looked real hard, earlier ...

 

[underwater goddess]

Yes I am anti-smoking. Smoking is horrible! And shouldn’t you all be anti-smoking too? I thought the whole purpose of this forum was “smoking is bad, so let’s all convert the world to vaping instead”!

If you all are so pro-smoking around here, then why don’t you all quit vaping and go back to analogs. Sheesh.

And while you are all being pro-smoking, why don’t you go make sure that e-cigs are banned everywhere. Then there will be lots of people smoking. Will you be happy then?

I didn’t put Boca Raton, Florida as my hometown because I was trying to be creative. Everyone else but me always has creative locations on forums….”planet earth”, “hell”, and, my all-favorite funny one, “at the computer”.

If the owner of this site does not like me making anti-smoking comments, then they should send me a PM and tell me. Not kick me off the site.

I’m done making anti-smoking comments on this site though. I’ve learned the hard way that trying to get you guys to realize that analogs are bad is like talking to a brick wall. It doesn’t make sense that you all are like this, how can someone be pro-smoking and pro-vaping at the same time, they are opposites! But, that’s just how you all are. I will no longer bother trying to enlighten you guys that analogs are dangerous, you all are too far gone.

And for the record, I am not a phony. I am a true fan of the wonder that is the e-cig, and even run a forum for vapers and those who love them. And I want to do everything I can to make sure they are not banned!

 

[HKholer]

I think what we have here folks is a non-smoker who is trying to be supportive but lacks the knowledge it take to truly understand the horrors of being addicted to cigarettes. I don't think she's a troll. Have a little patience with her. I think she's on the right side of the fence, just not able to FEEL the difference. I have the same problem with my wife who is a non-smoker. She tries to be supportive but somehow always say the wrong thing. It is just from lack of first hand experience.

I hope I'm right. Hope I'm not defending a troll... time will tell.

 

[addicted4life]

You were still hurt by it. If you had been taken for study, you would have found that your lungs were absorbing less oxygen per breath than they were supposed to. Luckily for your happiness, your pastime as a kid wasn't swimming or playing sports.

No one saw that your lungs had been disgustingly disfigured, because they were hidden out of sight. What if parents topically applied a substance that visibly did to a kid's skin what the second-hand smoke does to their lungs? Then the kid can argue "it's fine, the damaged skin areas my parents gave me as a kid weren't painful, and I never got sick, and I obviously didn't die".

If parents were to force a kid to swallow a pill that would make their lungs less functional, everyone would call it child abuse. But no one says the same thing about parents smoking around their kids simply because its more "socially acceptable".

There is no need to defend their actions. Your parents should not have done that to you. You did not deserve it. No kid does.

(Steps into time machine, goes back in time, and hands your parents PVs. There...problem solved )

Actually, I was very involved in sports. Football, soccer, baseball, karate (2nd degree black belt), and I had a pool in my back yard that I frequently swam in. My soccer team came in 4th in the state and I never missed a min of play time. Apparently my lungs are much stronger than some would want to believe.

Regardless, that has nothing to do with it. Honestly, you cannot say to a medical certainty or with a standard alpha level that 2nd hand smoke causes cancer and I could possibly even reach out and say "damages the body." If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I'd also like to see a scientific study backing up those claims.

 

[CES]

@Underwater Goddess. I'm pretty sure that we know that smoking is not particularly healthy. I suspect that there are very few people left that don't know it. The large majority of us have struggled with cigs and the stigma for a long, long time, and are well aware of the dangers. What you may not realize is that your posts sometimes come across as saying "smokers are bad" and feels more like an attack than support.

I think it's great that you want to support the vaping cause. We need support from vapers/ex-smokers, smokers, non-smokers, anyone who is willing to be educated. I'm not trying to tell you what or how to post- I just wanted to let you know how it comes across (at least to me) sometimes, especially in the areas where the science isn't as clear cut.

 

[Tampa2]

I think what we have here folks is a non-smoker who is trying to be supportive but lacks the knowledge it take to truly understand the horrors of being addicted to cigarettes. I don't think she's a troll. Have a little patience with her. I think she's on the right side of the fence, just not able to FEEL the difference. I have the same problem with my wife who is a non-smoker. She tries to be supportive but somehow always say the wrong thing. It is just from lack of first hand experience.

I hope I'm right. Hope I'm not defending a troll... time will tell.

I agree. Never having been a smoker she just doesn't get the fact that we ex-smokers still have the defense mechanism built in for complainers. What she needs to do is hype vaping and leave the anti-smoking verbiage at home. I had an ex-wife that complained constantly about smoking too. The key word here is "ex-wife". But I don't think she is a troll!

 

[dave8944]

If Underwater Goddess is from Florida, then her parents likely are responsible for terrible skin damage from the sun that she can't even see. You'd need a UV photo to see all the damage the sun has caused, but it is still there (http://www.medpagetoday.com/Dermatology/SkinCancer/763). They should have moved where there was less sun exposure before raising a child. It's like child abuse, and her parents should be flogged.

Such silly rational is behind her twisted logic. Of course we know smoking is bad, but it's fairly recent that we've had a lot of studies to show how bad. When I started smoking you could smoke just about anywhere and the majority of us smoked. I could even smoke in my office until 1995, so times have changed and I don't think past smoking parents should be vilified. Second hand smoke is a farce anyway. If it is really that bad, then we need to protect kids from the sun in the same neurotic way. Plus, now meta-genetic studies show that what you do to your body can affect generations of your offspring. For example, if a mother experiences lack of nutrition in her early teens then her grandchildren will live significantly less time compared to other children. Also, the later a women's body first experiences the hormone surges associated with pregnancy, the longer her children will live. So, there is a lot more behavior out there that needs to be "regulated" to save the "kids". What kind of world do you really want to make? The problem with the anti's is that they want a perfect world. In that world the birth control pill would be banned because it leads to hormone surges that shorten the life of later children, the sun would be a big cigarette to be feared, and none of us would have choices to make because we'd all be forced to live a certain way.

 

[Bill Godshall]

It should be noted that the person who generated the most news falsely claiming that "third hand smoke" is hazardous is the same person who falsely claimed that e-cigarettes are being target marketed to addict youth at the FDA's July 22, 2009 press conference. His name is Jonathan Winickoff and he's at the American Academy of Pediatrics. His e-mail is JWINICKOFF@PARTNERS.ORG

I've repeatedly asked Winickoff to provide the name of just one youth anywhere in the country (or the world) who uses e-cigarettes. He's still looking for one.

Several years ago, Winickoff also got the AAP to approve a policy to oppose cigarette smokers switching to snus or other smokeless tobacco products, and Winickoff recently helped get Greg Connolly's absurd study (claiming that dissolvable tobacco lozenges were poisoning children even though it never happened) in the AAP's journal.

On another issue

As one who has spent the past 25 years campaigning to sharply reduce indoor tobacco smoke pollution, increase cigarette tax rates, eliminate tobacco industry target marketing to youth, increase cigarette tax rates, and hold cigarette companies legally accountable for their egregious past actions, I don't think it helpful for e-cigarette consumers to criticize or question the integrity/motives of tobacco harm reduction advocates who don't use e-cigarettes.

While I don't use e-cigarettes (except for two days at the Vapefest2010) or other smokefree tobacco/nicotine products, I've been educating the public (including most opponents of e-cigarettes and smokeless tobacco) about the many health benefits of switching from cigarettes to smokefree tobacco/nicotine alternatives (including smokeless tobacco, e-cigarettes and NRT products).

And for the past three years, I've been campaigning to keep e-cigarettes legal and affordable in the US and in other countries.

I would hope that all e-cigarette consumers communicate and collaborate with (instead of criticizing and trying to drive a wedge between) those who don't use e-cigarettes (but who advocate for the rights of e-cigarette users and for reducing tobacco diseases).

 

[Moonflame]

I don't think the problem is that UnderWaterGoddess is a never smoked/never vaped person, and I'm one of the few who defended her right to be on this forum and said we need the support of folks who have never smoked or vaped. The problem is the way she talks about smokers. Almost all of the people on this forum were once smokers and the way she talks about smokers is insulting and rude. I hope she does not mean to come off this way, I hope that she is just young and doesn't really think of how what she says makes people feel. I do think she needs to be more careful of how she speaks to people here. She is making it harder for us to accept others here who never smoked. Her comments come across as saying that all smokers are evil, and therefore it feels like she is saying that we are all evil. Plus, there are smokers who come here trying to research e-cigs and hopefully switch, and having someone here who is insulting them in their posts may turn those people off so much that they leave and don't bother researching further.

Yes, we desperately need the support of people who have never smoked or vaped. But a great many of her posts don't feel very supportive. They feel more like smoker bashing than anything else. This is one of the most supportive forums I have ever been on and I'd like to see it stay that way. People here genuinely seem to care about the other folks on the forum, we rejoice in others successes and support them when they are having a hard time. I'd hate to see that atmosphere change.

 

[Bill Godshall]

I would hope that Moonflame and others would have similar concerns about the thousands of notes posted on the ECF that negatively criticize, label, denounce or condemn everyone (including me) who has worked to reduce smoking.

There is a huge split within the anti-smoking movement between the lying abstinence-only prohibitionists versus those of us who tell the truth about health risks of different tobacco/nicotine products and who advocate for smokefree tobacco/nicotine alternatives for smokers.

 

[Bill Godshall]

The point of my last two posts here is that nobody here benefits when people post divisive notes that inaccurately and/or disrespectively stereotype others who support e-cigarettes.

 

[sherid]

The point of my last two posts here is that nobody here benefits when people post divisive notes that inaccurately and/or disrespectively stereotype others who support e-cigarettes.

I know that you are anti-smoking, but I am also aware of your much appreciated drive to defeat bans against electronic cigarettes. In this forum, I do not hear you posting negative drivel like I heard the OP posting. I hear only positive comments for the e cig. None of us need to hear the anti-smoker party line in this forum as we could go to Topix to hear that. All regular posters on this forum are either ex smokers or smokers who have drastically cut back the number of real cigarettes we smoke. Bashing smokers or their smoking parents has no place on this forum. It drives people away.

 

[Moonflame]

Bill, I am very grateful for the respectful way you have handled yourself here. I have never felt that you looked down on smokers, but that you were valiantly fighting for our right to have real information and not the pseudo-science of the FDA, ALA, etc. The more support, the better!