This bothers me.What is your opinion on badged ecigs

[Lightgeoduck]

I just got back from taking my family to an American mall (they are Japan, and that's where I live) and I saw a kiosk that sold ecigs and I was EXCITED not only were they selling ecigs they sold cartomizers the KR808 model that I like to carry for quick round about vaping...

Anyway they were giving their spiel about this is their brand,,, because it was all labeled with their company name (I can't remember, but when I go back I will get that info) but it was the same that we all know but the kit was HELLA overpriced over double what you can find here on ECF. I noticed other models around as well with biznezz badges with a biznezz high price....I know it costs a little more for a "brick and mortar" than an online only biz

but DAMN is it worth the extra price? I mean I understand 20-25% mark up but 100-250% mark up?

a 901,510,801,m401, etc is a 901,510,801,m401 no matter what, right?

I am not talking about mods or PV, i am talking about basic generic ecig kits.

I know its not my biznezz to butts and I am not obligated to purchase, but as a consumer I wouldn't mind someone telling me that I can get the samething somewhere else (and I am not talking about direct china) at a decent price.

I know costs, risks,overhead,supply and demand... But I feel this is a con.

a con for the average consumer that doesn't know that there are other options to search for.

What is your opinion? Do you know what should be done? I mean to drive the price to a non-money grubbing price to a more competitive price.

I want the whole ecig thing to grow, but I don't want every tom, richard, and harry to jump in to a get rich quick gimmick and the only one that gets screwed is the Consumer...maybe didn't happen to you, but does that really matter?

 

[Lashes]

I want to open a REAL ecig kiosk right next to every smoking everywhere kiosk. So people dont get ##### over.

 

[LostInDaJungle]

The "local" e-cig store near here has rebranded Smoking Everywhere e-cigs. I went there to try one and they were 90-120$ for a starter kit.

1) How "special" is it when even small merchants can get their own "branded" e-cigs?
2) They then pretend it isn't the standard commodity e-cigs... Meaning that their customers have a harder time figuring out how to do mods and such (which are essential for a good e-cig experience)
3) Do I trust this guy to stay in business for a few years when I need replacement parts?
4) I might be swayed to buy one from him based on good reviews, but by hiding the true origin of the e-cig, he's making it so there are no reviews to be found. If he calls a 510 a "Nicomizer" or something, only a small number of people have tried them.
5) Once you find out he sold you an 801 for twice the price, you're only bitter that you got screwed.

I think branded e-cigs are less desirable than the standard 510, 801, etc... Certainly not worth paying more for.

People who take care of their customers will be in it for the long haul, people who only care about making a quick buck will get out once the margins go down. As they become more popular, more people will be able to see a con for what it is.

 

[Scottbee]

What are you willing to pay to get some e-liquid at 6PM on a Friday when you run out... or a replacement atty when your last one died?

When the price of analogs went way up I knew that I could buy cartons on-line for a heck of a lot cheaper... and I even did it a few times. But at the end of the day I found myself running down to the local convenience store time and time again to get my fix.

If there was a decent local outlet that carried a nice selection, I'm sure I'd find myself down there picking through the bins of cartos or picking up a few atomizers... fully aware of the fact that I'm paying a big markup for them to have brick-and-mortar and a warm body standing there.

 

[Reboot]

If the consumer doesn't take the time to educate themself and find out what is out there for options then it is really their fault in the end. Businesses wouldn't be able to operate this way if it wasn't for the uninformed, careless consumer. A lot of people would still buy the e-cig in the kiosk knowing full well that its overpriced, because it's right there right now. Who wants to wait 3 WHOLE DAYS for shipping...lol....gimmie to me now!!!!!!!! Instant gratification...it's worth big bucks.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

Caveat emptor. That's what ECF is for.

You have hit a Libertarian nerve. Here's my rant:

Please do not let the government get into it with "for our own good" controls! Stupid, ignorant, and lazy are not strong survival traits. They should not be protected and reinforced by government fiats, especially those that infringe upon the rights of the rest of us.

For example, I have no problem at all with Vapor4Life branding the KR808D-1 as "Vapor King" and charging a bit extra for it. I expect that most ECFers would agree with that example. At the other end of the spectrum is Inhalerette/ElectroBZ, which provides a mediocre product and is grossly overpriced (and whose luring into monthly refill practices I find offensive).

But where do you (or Big Brother) draw the line? At Smoking Everwhere? They provide a decent (albeit high-priced) product and support it, not with good customer service, but with great merchandizing - which has put e-cigs in the face of millions of people.

Let the free market shake it all out. Or, as John Galt would say, "Get the hell out of my way!"

IM(not so H)O

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Well put, yes I know what you mean...I guess I have to take your advise, except for one thing... people like my father who are up in age but low on income....and not so computer savy...thank the Lucky stars that I am his son and was able to inform him.....but not everyone that is ignorant of how to gather information on the interwebz knows that they are getting their wallets emptied unnecessarily.

and I am not talking about just a bit more higher for a special service like the V4L you mentioned... but the same product almost doubled That price.

and NO its not like a convient store analogy like a previous poster mentioned,,,, because you can't get ecigs everywhere AND the little stand isn't always at a convinient place.......Truck Stops unterstandable everything there is up on price.

I also don't want Big Brother to take control. Or anyone to stop down and burn down a biz for consumer rights.....

Isn't there a happy medium? I mean for non ECFers? something that says HEY don't try to squeeze every dime out of someone just because they didn't do their research.

Yes some people are idiots, but being uniformed has nothing to do with intellegance. yes Free market all the way, but come on honestly what can be done to help the common consumer be an influence to the Free Market?

I am of course willing to get out of the markets way,,,but are we suppose to just watch someone get run over? These are sincere questions not retorical(sp) I don't know what I feel I can't drop it...unless someone can tell me how...it will continue to bother me...

Caveat emptor. That's what ECF is for.

You have hit a Libertarian nerve. Here's my rant:

Please do not let the government get into it with "for our own good" controls! Stupid, ignorant, and lazy are not strong survival traits. They should not be protected and reinforced by government fiats, especially those that infringe upon the rights of the rest of us.

For example, I have no problem at all with Vapor4Life branding the KR808D-1 as "Vapor King" and charging a bit extra for it. I expect that most ECFers would agree with that example. At the other end of the spectrum is Inhalerette/ElectroBZ, which provides a mediocre product and is grossly overpriced (and whose luring into monthly refill practices I find offensive).

But where do you (or Big Brother) draw the line? At Smoking Everwhere? They provide a decent (albeit high-priced) product and support it, not with good customer service, but with great merchandizing - which has put e-cigs in the face of millions of people.

Let the free market shake it all out. Or, as John Galt would say, "Get the hell out of my way!"

IM(not so H)O

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I agree, Don. Also, realistically, even though SE is grossly overpriced they've use alot of that money to advertise and have a good video demonstration on their website. That's how I got introduced to ecigs. Yeh, I got scammed by them before I found this forum and learned alot in a short time, but I also tried it and realized this thing works. I do thank them for that, because I'm now a former smoker and I get all my stuff from vendors located on this forum. I don't think I would have found all this had it not been for SE. I would never recommend them to anyone for a purchase, but I have sent inquiring minds to SE's website to watch their video. By whatever means, I guess, as long as ecigs grow in popularity among smokers we become a stronger force when push may come to shove.

 

[G_Jones]

Ordering a lot of things online is less exepensive than buying in person, which is why I like to buy things online.

This is still a rather new technology to the marketplace overall, I suspect as there are more retailers and use that prices will go down over time. I don't know how many e-cigs a kiosk has to sell in one day to pay the rent and employees, unless there are long lines to try the thing out, my guess is they don't sell hundreds a day.

Also, marketing-wise, the name kr808D-1, or 801 etc isn't going to be that attention grabbing and enticing to the average uninitiated consumer. The manufacturers are making some great products, but they are leaving it up to retailers to market and properly package. The companies that are re-branding and selling direct retail are pretty much taking the brunt of the expense of introducing new people to e-cigs, as well as the cost of legal battles and the time spent explaining/defending the devices in their areas of operation.

It seems like a risky business to get into for a product that could be outlawed at any time. The branded retailers are also overall very important in shaping the general public opinion on what e-cigs are. Having them packaged in the generic original packaging with the original model numbers as designation may not initially encourage someone. In stock packaging and naming, it looks like a suspicious device of dubious legal status, like a cable de-scrambler or a weapon silencer kit.

A small amount of enthusiastic ex-smokers, gadget freaks and entrepreneur types are going to find e-cigs online and order them, but the average person probably won't come looking for e-cigs like the people on this forum, and seems like many here got their introduction from brick-and-mortar kiosks or rebranded e-cig advertising campaigns, and those cost something to set up.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

...what can be done to help the common consumer be an influence to the Free Market? ...but are we suppose to just watch someone get run over? ... unless someone can tell me how...

I've just quoted small portions of your second post. The answer is free speech and the free press. Shout it from the tallest building. Rail about it on the Internet. Have ECA issue a press release. Form a concerned vapers group. And on and on.

Life isn't always fair. But we don't have to take it lying down.

[As for your father, that's what good sons are for.]

 

[MHR7331]

The moment I began seriously considering using e-cigs, I went online and found these boards. The only two products I was aware of up to that point were Njoy and Smoking Everywhere. Did a lot of reading, and ended up with a 510 PCC kit for $65 - thoroughly happy with it. I did my research, compared products, and bought what I felt was the best option for me. I am by no means asserting my consumer prowess, because I've had to learn the hard way (3 year gym membership, local areas only, with a $300 early cancellation fee).

For those who inadvertantly picked up an arguably crappy product for a hyperinflated price, I offer my sympathies - but you live and learn. Such is the nature of the free market. Barring outright fraud, it should be left to manage itself. Better to find out buying a crappy SE kit than throwing down $700k on a 3 bedroom house with zero down because you expected the housing market to inexorably rise... lol

 

[Kent C]

yes Free market all the way, but come on honestly what can be done to help the common consumer be an influence to the Free Market?

The only way to do that is to let the ignorant (uninformed not stupid) consumers operate freely without intervention. That is the only thing that drives home the need to get informed. It is the 'cost' of their education whether they are 10 or 90. When that happens, people get more knowledgable and that spells doom for the people that are taking advantage of ignorance. It's almost axiomatic.

In fact, the same goes for people that are selling the idea that the free market doesn't work. Those scam artists only lose when people get educated rather than indoctrinated by the scam artists in universities that promote that progaganda. They are the Smoking Everywhere, Njoy, Blu cig salesmen of education/indoctrination. And with those scammers and their brethern in politics, you don't just lose $100, you lose your freedom - even the freedom to be an ignorant consumer. lol.

 

[four2109]

I'm really glad the NPRO was in the Pilot truck Stop the day I found out about electronic cigarettes.

 

[HaploVoss]

I can see how horrible it seems because we all here know we can buy product 'X' for 40 bucks here, while someone trys to sell the exact same thing, with pretty packaging, for 150 bucks elsewhere. In all honesty I think everyone else has pretty much covered it, but I do have to put out a card for the 'brick and mortar' types as were mentioned.

I had a store once upon a time and I can tell you this much. I went from *needing* to charge $94.00 per unit of the items I sold to cover -> Rent, Insurance, Electricity (yeah I got hosed on that one), etc. ... to only having to charge $41.00 per unit when I closed the doors and went entirely internet based. Same profit margin.

So although my example is not quite as outlandish - it also was not the same kind of product, was many years ago when rent and materials were cheaper, and I don't even want to know how much rent at a mall is!!!

Take care,
- Hap

 

[hyperdeficit]

Well, I have a problem when people take an already made e cig and say it is their own and say they manufacter it (at least they allude you to believe so) and then sell it for double.

I have seen some e cigs that are simply 510's with cool designs on them like dragons and flames and stuff and they sell them for like ten bucks more, that i dont have a problem with because you pay for the art, but plain old e cigs like smoking everywhere piss me off.

I actually had a chat with one of the ...... from SE the other day and wanted to make a video about our conversation and all of the e cig "facts" he had to share with me, and the fact he had a pack of smokes sitting on the kiosk table, I actually might do that.

NO OFFENSE IF YOU WORK FOR SE!!!

If you are on the forum then you are not a .....!! The guy i was talking to claimed that forums are for ......s because they spread false info

 

[Sparky400]

Sometimes I still think people are waiting for computers and the internet to catch-on! lol

Branding is a tool that is still very important in my opinion. I am obviously not expert, but I think most people don't have the time or desire to figure what an 808 is from a 901. A brand creates an association.

Most of the people that I know who vape, have no clue what model of device they are smoking, but they can tell you why they switch from one brand to another. I have told people they can get the same thing for cheaper somewhere else and just check ECF. They can't be bothered because they are happy and OK maybe a little lazyl

HaploVoss mentioned store front expenses and I would like to second that and add marketing and advertising which can be very expensive especially to build a well known brand. (probably billions over years to forge a household name) Which is why companies like Ford literally mortgage their name.

What can you do about it?

Don said it, one of the things that is almost free these days is word of mouth and the press. Post on forums, start a blog and tell all your friends.

 

[Sad Society]

There is a cig store less than a mile away from my house where they sell ecig kits and juice. The kits are junk and they sell tham for a hundred dollars. I took a better option and got the 510 online for less. The juice they sell goes for 15 bucks. And I did buy a bottle of juice from them when I ran out and had to wait on an online order of juice to arrive.

I was at another liquor store once and asked them if they sell any ecig juice. They did not sell any juice but they had an ecig kit that was 200 dollars!!! I didn't look twice to even find out what brand or model it was.

The key point to keep vaping is to plan ahead. Order juice online long before you run out.

Unless ecigs and juice are readily accessible like cigarettes are...there will always be analog smokers. There are people out there who have never ordered anything over the internet, let alone even use the internet.

 

[Lightgeoduck]

HaHa that is an interesting way of thinking about it...Thanks I think that I can be at ease now... I will help who I can, but some people just will have to get their education with out a scholarship and pay full tuition

a new way of looking at the "Price of Freedom" hehe

The only way to do that is to let the ignorant (uninformed not stupid) consumers operate freely without intervention. That is the only thing that drives home the need to get informed. It is the 'cost' of their education whether they are 10 or 90. When that happens, people get more knowledgable and that spells doom for the people that are taking advantage of ignorance. It's almost axiomatic.

In fact, the same goes for people that are selling the idea that the free market doesn't work. Those scam artists only lose when people get educated rather than indoctrinated by the scam artists in universities that promote that progaganda. They are the Smoking Everywhere, Njoy, Blu cig salesmen of education/indoctrination. And with those scammers and their brethern in politics, you don't just lose $100, you lose your freedom - even the freedom to be an ignorant consumer. lol.

 

[Mac]

I think the higher price is warranted if:
They give an outstanding warranty and honor it at the store out of their own inventory with no restock fee. If they are willing to take the time to teach you how to use it clean it and maintain it. If they avail them selves for phone calls for even the simplest question. In other words. A higher price is justified if they offer a high level of service and convenience. Sadly Most do not. Which gives the rest of us a bad name.

It is extremely expensive to have a store at the mall. If I told you what we were paying in rent every month you would be shocked.

Also ask your current supplier how many problems they have had with china. Inventory loss due to customs. Due to DOA product. Due to defective product that fails in week. An internet guy has very low overhead. so he can make 5 bucks on what he sells and call it a day. Retail guys are ina different situation. Alot of people will not use their cc online. They will not buy from a faceless company. Like them or not if not for malls this product would extremely obscure and half of you would of never heard of an e-cig.

 

[Giantfan]

The prices should come down as more people discover and start e cigs, just like with any new product. I think the prices are really high, but they also have a lot more overhead costs, so it's understandable.