This isn't as easy as I thought it would be!

[Geiseric]

Well, I've been diying for a week now. I have to admit, I am a bit frustrated. I won't give up. Oh no. But I'm starting to feel a little crazy. All I do now is test and mix flavors, outside of working. Seriously, like 5 hours a day. My fiance has been very understanding, but I'm sure at some point she's going to want to resume speaking with me, rather than just hearing me mutter about percentages or cursing as my cat leaps onto my work table (which happens regularly, leading to even more cursing as I re-sanitize everything). But I need to at least perfect 3-4 flavors so I can.. you know.. go back to vaping while doing the rest of things I enjoy in life.

I have this idea of what I want flavor to be, and just as I grasp it, it slips away. Most commonly, after perfecting a test mixture, I'll make a 10 ml batch and find either A: it only works well at moderate voltage on a 3.0 carto, but not LR cartos and/or B: After 3-4 wonderful puffs, it tastes like a chemical plant explosion in my mouth. Part of this could be due to my testing. I started using 2.4 810s because they were cheap in bulk so I could cycle through them rapidly. Testing on bridged atomizers gets irritating after a while, though, so I started using my gotvapes bridgeless, which is easy to clean and reuse rapidly. They are 3.0 ohm, though, so while I test at voltages from 3v to 4.2v, I'm not actually sure what setting really comes close to a 1.7 or 2.0 ohm on the ~3.2v that my ego batts put out, which I prefer to use when out and about.

In addition, no matter how much testing I do, I can't get anything decent to happen when adding large or minute amounts of EM or Tart and Sour. After the first catastrophe with sucrolose, I am hesitant to try that again (awful, AWFUL taste). I'm not sure what to do about this. EM just doesn't really add to the flavors for me. I thought it did, for a while, but then I started noticing when I carefully contrasted test mixes that it actually was creating some of the chemical nastiness that I was experiencing. This even occurs for me at one drop per 2ml. Tart and sour.. maybe at the same ratio it might improve things, but it is so subtle I can't tell. Any more, and it makes it worse.

I have a few mixes that are OK, but they all start tasting weird after a few puffs. Steeping has helped some.. a little.

I have been mixing at percentages ranging from 5-30%. Most tend toward the higher side, with capellas. With TFA, more lean toward 15%ish.

Cinnomen Red Hots TPA concentrate comes in the mail tmrw. Hopefully that will save some flavors, even with premixed flavors I usually mix some of that in to cover the weird tastes.

So. What am I doing wrong? How can I better mix for a variety of cartos? What is going on with EM? Does it only appeal to some peoples tastes? Am I too picky?! HALP!

 

[MrBeo]

Wow, That is a lot to answer but I'll try some! The first thing or rule to starting DIYing is have juice handy from a vendor that you like! Second We all drive in that lane at first so stick to it. Have you tried the Super Concentrates from Vz yet? if not check out that thread as its a good and easy concentrate to work with.
Try adding your flavor drops first - then pg/vg and last the Nic and give the bottle a swirl over shaking. steep in a cool dark closet for 3+ days or more for most mixes - Tobacco it can be weeks but Vz is in as little as 24 hours. mix using ml over drops being its giving a better measurement ratio. stick to Vz concentrates, capella's & FA being there easier then most TPA and FW and last but not least KEEP reading these threads - its where I learned everything!!!

You may know all that but there the basics I had to toss out at you and I do wish you good luck making a awesome batch and then one after another...

 

[Shilo]

30% flavoring is kind of high. Are you vaping high or all VG? You mention weird tastes both in your mixes and in premixed juices that you hope Cinnamon Red Hots will cover. It makes me wonder if your base ingredients are all good quality- namely your PG VG and nic juice. Have you tried to vape it flavorless? Thats a good way to know if the weird taste is or is not there before the flavorings get added.

EM is a mildly sweet additive, also known as cotton candy flavoring that can add body and moisture to a dry or hollow tasting vape. Some people love it others do not---its not a must have unless you like it.

Keep reading the forum and asking questions. There are pages and pages of info in the DIY section that dates back several years. Don't give up we all have been there. Its like a maze finding out what appeals to you. Sometimes flavors you think you will like you don't and vice versa.

Also this may not apply to you but in some people frequent cinnamon vapes can fry their taste buds for periods of time. Just thought I'd throw that out there as it does happen to people on here from time to time. Good luck and hang in there.

 

[Geiseric]

Oh yes, I use a premixed base for my initial tests. I know some people say to add nic last, which I do in the full test batches, but it just makes testing easier. I use 40vg 60pg. They taste more or less flavorless when dripped alone. I don't always taste weirdness in premixed juice, but I like how it covers a lot of the unnatural flavors in some of them. I also prefer the kick it has. I ordered cappellas cinnamon red hots and found it severely lacking, so I am waiting on TPA which I have heard is better, and common in premixed red hot juice.

30% isn't always what I end up with, but has been the case with some cappellas. 20% is more common. 5% in a few. I test very heavily to determine the more desirable percentage for me. It can't be just dead taste buds, my fiance tends to agree with the percentages. I test initially with drops as it is cost effective.

 

[Shilo]

Well hopefully that cinnamon will work for you. if you can make one vape you love even a basic one you'll start to feel alot better about this and moving forward on the DIY thing. It can be very frustrating.

As far as Capella's the way it tastes on day one is not how it will taste a week or two from now. This applies to most all the flavors out there. If it tastes chemically you either added too much or didn't steep long enough.

When you say premixed base is it premixed by you or a vendor? Also have you stopped smoking? I'm sure you read-- your taste buds can be off if you are A a smoker or B a recent non smoker.

 

[n9emz]

Same disappointment here. Tried DIYing tobacco for the first time last night and everything had a taste undertone like a hospital smells. Incrementally increased flavors from 2% to 8% and flavor changed but that undertone was constant throughout. Vaped the 36mg nic PG (premixed by vendor) and 0-nic PG bases individually and the culprit is the nic base. I'd rather lick the underside of a public toilet seat than vape the Double RY4, 555, straight tobacco, and VA Fire Cured samples I've set up to steep at this point. Gonna breathe them tonight and then lock them down tight for a week.

I've spent HOURS reading and watching vids on this stuff and I was a lab rat for the better part of 25 years....not giving up, but it's nowhere near the snap I went into it thinking it would be. Back to the drawing board and thanks for the comments/advice.

 

[Shilo]

Same disappointment here. Tried DIYing tobacco for the first time last night and everything had a taste undertone like a hospital smells. Incrementally increased flavors from 2% to 8% and flavor changed but that undertone was constant throughout. Vaped the 36mg nic PG (premixed by vendor) and 0-nic PG bases individually and the culprit is the nic base. I'd rather lick the underside of a public toilet seat than vape the Double RY4, 555, straight tobacco, and VA Fire Cured samples I've set up to steep at this point. Gonna breathe them tonight and then lock them down tight for a week.



I've spent HOURS reading and watching vids on this stuff and I was a lab rat for the better part of 25 years....not giving up, but it's nowhere near the snap I went into it thinking it would be. Back to the drawing board and thanks for the comments/advice.

Glad at least you figured out it was the base before you went any further.


You need to try VZ flavors if you want good tobaccos if you haven't seen the thread its here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/270008-new-super-concentrated-flavors.html

 

[ninfreak]

deleted for stupidity

 

[n9emz]

Glad at least you figured out it was the base before you went any further.


You need to try VZ flavors if you want good tobaccos if you haven't seen the thread its here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/270008-new-super-concentrated-flavors.html

Thanks....subscribed, bookmarked the site, and will keep checking.

 

[Hoosier]

So. What am I doing wrong? How can I better mix for a variety of cartos? What is going on with EM? Does it only appeal to some peoples tastes? Am I too picky?! HALP!

First thing I notice is that your first mixes seem to be blends. Might want to try to get the basic stuff first and just go for "close" before improving anything with additional components. If you wanted to make a great apple pie, you have to get the right apples first and finding the right apple requires tasting the apples without everything else first.

The next thing I see is that you are testing in a completely different Wattage range than you vape at. Because bridged attys are hard to clear? You have PG so you just drip and draw that plain PG in an atty to clear out the previous flavor. Usually doesn't take more than 9-12 drops and a huge vapor cloud to get them clear. You wouldn't test a race tire on a Pinto and then slap it on a race car and expect it to work like it did on the Pinto.

Also, if you are doing one thing and consitantly getting the same results, you have to change what you're doing to get a different result. Coming here and asking is a good step for that change.

Same disappointment here. Tried DIYing tobacco for the first time last night and everything had a taste undertone like a hospital smells.

You mixed tobaccos last night and tasted them last night? Yeah, not many will be good out of the gate, so you're still in line for getting good results with the time to steep them. It can be a slow process to get tobaccos just right. My first took me 5 months of working on it like the OP is currently going at his. (But it's still a great vape and I discovered plenty on the way.)

There is also some good information in my blog. The only thing about reading the blog I should caution on is that the Flavoring Levels chart does not directly apply to tobacco flavors. I know I have to do one on tobaccos, but haven't had the gumption yet.

 

[Vchick]

+1 on the equipment side of things, could very well make a difference, but I suspect it's in the mixing ratios

In the beginning of diy I found what I thought was an accurate way to determine the flavor ratio from a vendors website ~ only to find out that their flavorings must have been really weak to need that much (thankfully I wasn't using their flavorings). Therefore I was using way to much and not getting good results.

I have recently re-visited diy and found that for most of the flavorings 2-3 drops per mil for a basic single flavor is enough to give me great taste and I use 80/20vg so sweetner hasn't been an issue for me. Once I tweak it, or add additional flavors, I can convert drops to ml for larger batches. Whatever you decide, be sure to write it down, noting any changes you make for future reference (thought my memory sucked before, but it definately does now...

I know that the term "drops" is confusing, the overall size can vary depending on the bottle tip, syringe, dropper what have you, but unless I'm making uber sized mega bottles the percentages thing and making sure I get say 2.19ml of flavor just works against me as I feel that it's difficult to know where on the syringe that # is and I tend to round up, getting more flavor than I want and the results are off.

As a side note, cinnamon can be very difficult to get out of an addy, I'd recommend dedicating one soley to that for testing purposes as well as whatever you decide to use should the mix be to your liking.

Hth!

 

[micksf]

+1 for Hoosier's response, and the others.

And I'll add my 2 cents, this process takes a while. sounds like you are skipping a lot of steps that would ensure a good outcome. Without knowing everything you've done before your post it's hard to know every test you've done already, but I would suggest taking your time and slowing down.

Start out by creating single flavors successfully. This means nailing down single flavor percentages by doing multiple percentage tests of the same flavor until you find the one that works for you. That includes time to let them breathe and steep. Breathing/Steeping times procedures differ depending on who you ask, but I don't touch any of my samples for at least a week. I usually do multiple rounds of a testing phase for each flavor, for example sample one batch might be... 8%, 10%, and 12%. My test vape result may indicate that I do another test batch at 9% to compare.

Only then do I start adding add-ons, like EM, T&S, or others. Keep in mind these add-ons can be very powerful, so start at a very low % when you add them. I was amazed how different 2 drops of something can be over 1 drop. Once I get something I like then I can move on to mixing my successful flavors to create recipes. Keeping very good notes helps immensely.

This process takes a long time, and you have to be patient. meanwhile keeping something on-hand that you like to vape will allow you curb your impatience. I've been doing this now for a couple months and I still consider myself a very entry level DIY'er. Any successes I've had I can point directly back to the information I have gotten from the good folks here. good luck.

 

[n9emz]

Curious thing. I pulled a 0.4ml quantity from my RY4 test sample last night and loaded up my 510-T for down the road puffs. A little while ago I took a couple of hits and the hospital corridor undertone has either disappeared or been quieted with a perfume note. I'll keep checking the 510 daily but plan remains....breathe the samples tonight and lock 'em down unmolested for a week.

Hope is a wonderful thing.

 

[Geiseric]

Well, my cinnamon arrived and.. I couldn't be happier. Exactly what I needed. I mix the concentrate at 15% I like.. strong flavors. Very strong. I quit smoking cigarettes years ago, my taste buds are more than intact. I switched over from being a regular hookah smoker due to having issues with the excessive carbon monoxide. I just.. like things to taste very strongly. I mix lemonade about 30% lemon juice, to put things in perspective. I've been vaping it all day. Yum. I missed it.

On mixing: My method is to test individual flavors at 5% increments until I reach what I feel is the ideal flavor, and than continue on another 15% to gaurantee that I am not undershooting. I use str8vaping's drop method, with my own variation of using my own vg40pg60 25%nic fluid (just at this stage). Then, I test using 10ml. I have been setting those batches aside to steep for later testing. I havent been making several versions for later steep testing simply becuase.. that would take.. a lot of flavor. While it may come to that, I hope to avoid it, as capellas is.. pricey. With these test batches, I may pull 1-3 ml if I think it will go good with another, and mix it, then test it, and adjust. I haven't had a lot of luck. Some flavors were ok. They were missing something. Cinnamon. I don't know what it is, but it just makes everything.. better. 3 good mix batches today. They will need adjustment.. but they aren't SICKENING.

On testing with atties.. Trouble is, I use a wide variety of devices that I need to test for, which is why I'm wondering what I can do to make flavors function well in a diversity of temperatures. I use ce2s rev 6s, Vision Grande tanks, boge 3.0s, xl 1.7s (ressurectors, which I am not a fan of and will be returning to boge 2.0s for LR vaping... stupid loose fill), and I drip on the odd occasion. Everything but the boge 3.0s and dripping I do at LR, because I prefer ego batts for walking about. I do test with my 2.4 atties, its just.. a hassle. I get the whole clearing it out thing, and I do that, its just.. With my bridgeless atties, all I have to do is test, wipe it out, blow it out, vape tell it tastes dry, and its entirely clean. No remaining taste. It's amazing. I may just have to buy more, and a few in 2.4 ohm or lower, but its so costly buying them from gotvapes with the pumpcarts. Does anyone know where they can be bought in bulk? They have a nice little three hole cover over the atty that holds a little pool of drips quite nicely.

I'd like to try the new concentrated flavors but while I have looked over that thread a few times, I always get bored sifting through before I figure out what exactly is going on. I'll look into it more.. soon(Is it the vapingzone site they are referring to?).

 

[MrBeo]

I'd like to try the new concentrated flavors but while I have looked over that thread a few times, I always get bored sifting through before I figure out what exactly is going on. I'll look into it more.. soon(Is it the vapingzone site they are referring to?).

Correct! Vz or Vaping zone

 

[n9emz]

I'm happy to report that my major concerns were misplaced. I held back a 510-T draw from the RY4 I mixed day before yesterday and at 24 hrs steeping all the medicinal/disinfectant undertone had disappeared. I pulled out the four sample mixes last night and drew 510 stock samples, vaped them, and was shocked. My DK tobacco tasted and hit darned near perfect along with the RY4 having mellowed to where I could happily vape it for days while waiting on juices to arrive.

The tobacco? I can't get over how lucky I was with it. Was tempted to add another 0.15-0.2ml flavoring, but decided I'd wait and see how the vaping on my draws works out in the coming days. I let everything breathe for 3.5 hrs and the excessive perfume odors dissipated. Happy as a pig in slop. Stuff's all capped back up and in the dark for the duration. No problem waiting as my DK Desert Ship came in.

 

[Shilo]

n9emz glad to hear its working out better today.

 

[Beatnik]

Glad at least you figured out it was the base before you went any further.


You need to try VZ flavors if you want good tobaccos if you haven't seen the thread its here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/270008-new-super-concentrated-flavors.html

I second this motion. I just recently got into DIY myself. It was just about 10 days ago that I received all my supplies and although I have various flavors from various vendors I decided to start with these new VZ flavors as I had been following the aforementioned thread. I started with 3 of the tobacco flavors and made 5ml samples of each @ 2.5% and 4%. As it turns out all 6 samples are not only vappable but quite pleasing. Very very easy single flavor mixes that I am very much enjoying.