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Thoughts on this from a professor?

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by mn shutterbug, Sep 13, 2017.

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  1. mn shutterbug

    mn shutterbug Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    Marshall, MN - USA
    This professor was interviewed on an area news channel talking about how there are toxic substances in e-juice but not as many or in the amounts as tobacco. She also stated that they're not considered healthy and even second hand "smoke" from these could be unhealthy. I did some research and found her email address and asked her what she considered toxic in e-cigarettes and why she didn't consider them safe. Here is her reply.

    "Thank you for reaching out. You are right, it is difficult to know what is present in most of e-liquids because there are so many and they are not regulated. In addition to various manufacturers, there is also a huge variety of flavors. Lastly, a lot depends on the devise itself and how it is used.


    The toxicants that may be present in e-cigarette aerosols can potentially come from different sources: (i) transferred from the e-liquid if it contains impurities; (ii) formed during e-liquid heating when it is converted to aerosol; or (iii) from the device itself, for instance various metals or some by-products that may accumulate inside the device over time after repeated use. As I mentioned, the levels of such toxicants are in most cases much lower than what is present in cigarette smoke.


    Propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and flavorings all can lead to the formation of volatile toxicants when vaporized. The amounts of the formed toxicants will depend on the device parameters. For instance, higher coil temperature, higher voltage, older device would lead to higher amounts of toxicants formed. Formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein are some examples of toxicants that may be present in the aerosol."
     
  2. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Can the professor be named? Professor of what, and where? My comments are that at least she's trying to discuss things in a meaningful way, and not using incorrect terms, but she may be a bit behind on the latest research. I'd also want to know her financial ties and to whom, as well as why "she" was selected to be on the news-- has she done any research that is meaningful? Did the news station select her? Etc. I'd also be thrilled with ACADEMIC CITATIONS which are typically provided by persons of the "professorial persuasion" when she responded to your question. She's pretty much opinion based if she's not backing anything up with research findings.... Really, even the lowliest PhD should know how to do that (is she one? Not all "professors" are) when they write their dissertation.

    TL: D R--- A hot air balloon of a response from an academic hack. I'm feeling a bit too lazy to really crucify her though, today, though I wish the title of "Professor" did not sort of automatically cause the idea of "independent academic findings" in many people's minds today, as many "Professors" today are really anything But That. You should see what passes for teaching these days at certain community colleges. My son was "taught" by people I wouldn't allow inside my house because they were so wacky--- I finally convinced him to save his money and move somewhere where his academic loans would actually teach him something of value. :)


    Anna
     
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  3. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    How would the metal in your device affect the juice in tank? Does the professor consider a tank a device? Maybe an rda, but I thought someone had already found "toxins" in second hand vape smoke to be negligible. I know I read a study about that, just don't remember which one. Do these people talk to each other at all?
     
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  4. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    She was probably thinking of Nickle and it's tendency to "melt" if not used correctly in a TC device, but she's being vague because she knows perfectly well that a lot of research that she's using has been discredited later, or found to be much less of a problem than "reported."

    Anna
     
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  5. mn shutterbug

    mn shutterbug Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    Marshall, MN - USA
    I dug a little deeper.

    Irina Stepanov , Ph.D. is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences at the School of Public Health. Dr. Stepanov received her Ph.D. in Chemistry from Moldova State University (Republic of Moldova). She completed postdoctoral training in the laboratory of Dr. Stephen Hecht at the University of Minnesota and continued working as a research associate with Dr. Hecht at the Masonic Cancer Center.

    Dr. Stepanov's research interests include the development of novel biomarkers of human exposure to chemical carcinogens; carcinogen-induced damage to chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA; application of biomarkers to understand inter-individual differences in susceptibility to chemical carcinogen-induced cancer; tobacco carcinogenesis.
     
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  6. Cool_Breeze

    Cool_Breeze Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 10, 2011
    Kentucky
    CAUTION: Any post on e-cigarette-forum which suggests that e-cigarettes offer anything short of joy, bliss and life eternal can and will be subject to severe chastising via multiple applications of various portions of the ECF party line.
     
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  7. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Maybe so, but I really used to like it when professors used academic citations to support their assertions.... It wasn't a perfect system, but at least it provided a space to debate within which assertions needed to be supported by valid, research-based ideas. Not vague kerfluffle from an associate professor ranked by Forbes as 139th for colleges in the United States this year.

    Sorry to be an academic snob, but her discourse isn't compelling to me, as written it's a bunch of vague and unsupported assertions. At least she didn't call anything "smoke," though, that always causes bile to rise in the back of my throat.... :D

    Anna
     
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  8. Cool_Breeze

    Cool_Breeze Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 10, 2011
    Kentucky
    It appears to be a casual reply to an email query. I don't think it was intended to be, or should be in this instance a comprehensive research report with all the formalities. Is this a case by the OP for "Let's you and him fight."..? : )
     
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  9. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Nope, I can let the matter rest...
     
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  10. mn shutterbug

    mn shutterbug Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    Marshall, MN - USA
    I've been vaping for several years and after I saw that news interview I wanted to see what more she would have to say concerning her claims. I posted hear just to find out what others thought of her ideas. Don't worry. I'm not a troll. Just curious if others here had heard some of these things and could maybe provide ammo for me to shoot back at her with. :)
     
  11. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain

    E-Cigarettes May Be Safer Than Tobacco Cigarettes When It Comes To Formaldehyde; Should We Be Skeptical?

    The deception of measuring formaldehyde in e-cigarette aerosol: the difference between laboratory measurements and true exposure

    Toxins in E-Cig Vapor Also Found in Human Breath and Outdoor Air

    Study Investigates the Effect of Vaping on Indoor Air Quality

    Conclusions: she is basing her assertions on old studies backed by the cigarette industry, without examining anything more than the surface, for example, not comparing the studies with WHO acceptable indoor air quality standards, normal air quality out of doors in most cities, and emissions from humans just breathing. Also, as she is not a doctor she is also not examining the fact the formaldehyde normally emitted in vaping is a different kind than the cancer causing kind in cigarette smoke, as well as the fact that to reach dangerous levels of formaldehyde you have to dry burn your atomizer.

    Anyway, do your research.. I gave you a good start in the above links.
     
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  12. mn shutterbug

    mn shutterbug Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    Marshall, MN - USA
    Since the news cast was mainly focused on second hand vapor, I emailed the professor the link concerning
    Contaminants in E-Cig Vapor Also Found in Human Breath and Outdoor Air
     
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  13. Beamslider

    Beamslider Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 29, 2017
    San Francisco
    Your professor is entitled to her opinion but unless she can back it up with research facts.....All she has is her opinion
     
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  14. mn shutterbug

    mn shutterbug Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    Marshall, MN - USA
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