To the confused beginners. My input after nearly a month on vaping. ($100 solution)

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sailorman

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The thing is also that an Ego battery can still be used for other things than the atty and cartridge combo they come equiped with.
Carto
tank
clearomizer

On a mini, these things looks just plain silly.

Yeah, that's just one more factor out of many.
I just looked at a kGo kit for $45. That was less than my 510 with a PCC
It had 2 X 1100 batts a charger a tip and some cartos.

I ended up with 9 batteries at 180mah each that cost around $9 or more each.
That's 1620mah for $81. or $.05/mah. compared to the kGo's $.02/mah, and that's not even accounting for the better performance, lifespan and the charger, etc.

What advantage did the 510 have? It looked sorta like a cigarette and had a red light at the tip.
That's it. Cost over twice as much and performed worse, but it looked sorta like a cigarette.

The question to ask a newb is: Do you want to pay more than twice as much and have worse performance just so you look like you're smoking?

Had I started with that kGo, I probably would have stayed with it for the first couple years without feeling the need to upgrade.
 

ambition

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Yeah, that's just one more factor out of many.
I just looked at a kGo kit for $45. That was less than my 510 with a PCC
It had 2 X 1100 batts a charger a tip and some cartos.

I ended up with 9 batteries at 180mah each that cost around $9 or more each.
That's 1620mah for $81. or $.05/mah. compared to the kGo's $.02/mah, and that's not even accounting for the better performance, lifespan and the charger, etc.

What advantage did the 510 have? It looked sorta like a cigarette and had a red light at the tip.
That's it. Cost over twice as much and performed worse, but it looked sorta like a cigarette.

The question to ask a newb is: Do you want to pay more than twice as much and have worse performance just so you look like you're smoking?

Had I started with that kGo, I probably would have stayed with it for the first couple years without feeling the need to upgrade.

The performance of an 808 isn't necessarily worse (or noticeably worse) than an ego type battery with the exception of battery life.

After a year of vaping and using both mechanical and vv mods I went back to the 808 because of the simplicity and gave my mods to my friends to use. I wish I'd kept one, but oh well.

Anyway, just wanted to say that looking like you're smoking, or more accurately, feeling like you're smoking isn't all that bad.

Get an ecig with a blue tip and most problems never occur. It's the public thy should be educated about vaping.
To discourage newbies from vaping from an ecig like an 808 might be turning them away from one device that they might actually use to successfully quit.

You can't deny that an ecig lookalike is an amazingly powerful lure for current smokers, and a lure that companies like Blu exploit everyday.

To discourage the use of cig like devices on the basis that it looks like smoking has a downside too.
 

Stonefather

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As a semi newb I can say that your review will help many with a lot of basic questions that are often asked. I spend a grip of money on 808 supplies before I became educated on the world of mods. I am now compelled to buy a lot..and often. At the same time, after almost 2 months smoke free, I wake up without coughing up a lung and have recently returned to jogging.
 

Warren D. Lockaby

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.....
21 months after I upgraded, I was still using that BB exclusively, right up until a couple weeks ago when I decided to splurge and get a LavaTube. But $105/21 = $5 a month + maybe another $1/mo. for batteries and I'll have that BB for years to come. OTOH, the 510 costs me about $110 for 2.5 months, or $44/mo. for a less capable system that I never use and, in fact most of which I can't use. Tell me that wasn't a waste of money.
........

Was it better than nothing. Yes. But so what? Nothing wasn't my only other option.
........

If a PV costs $100 and the chance that you will upgrade within the first year, for any reason related to performance, is better than 50%, it's a waste. End of story. You can sugarcoat it and rationalize it all you want. Just because a clueless newbie "chose" it doesn't make it any less of a waste or any better an e-cig. Kids choose Happy Meals and Newbies choose Blu every single day. All that proves is that kids know no more about nutrition than newbs know about PV's.

Sailorman, I agree with most of what you post but there are a few things I see from a different perspective. In the first of your paragraphs I quoted above, I would tell you no Sir, it was *not* a waste of money but an investment in your continuing education. It appears you learned the lesson well, in which case you got your money's worth. Many of us are less astute, paying for the same lesson over and over before actually learning it, but in any event I don't think the "waste" occurs at the time of payment but over the period during which the lesson might have been absorbed, yet was ignored.

You wrote, "But so what? Nothing wasn't my only other option." But consider: armed with the information you possessed at that time, what other options did you have? That's where the value of this "education" thing comes in.

I love being able to come here and learn stuff free from folks like you who have been around awhile, but probably like most folks here before I was introduced to ECF I was taken for a ride or two. I spent a lot more money than I'd have spent for the junk I wouldn't have bought in the first place *if I'd known any better*, but I don't begrudge those ripoff artists a penny they took me for. Because I got my money's worth - in education. And since I've been here I feel like I've won a scholarship or something!

Happy McVaping! :vapor: :toast:
 

ctourtelot

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First time vapers just want it to work, like you said. That's true. And, for a while, a decent little battery does work. How good? They don't know and they won't know for months. But in the vast majority of cases, they figure it out. You did. I did. Jammin did.

I didn't upgrade from a 510 because I felt like spending money, or I was dazzled. I upgraded because I got sick and tired of charging and buying batteries. And yes, my 510 was a waste of money. By the time I upgraded, less than 3 months after I started, I had well over $100 in it, not including consumables.

When I upgraded, about 21 months ago, I bought a Baby Bullet for about $105, including spare batteries. Was it more complicated? No. Harder to use? No. More confusing? No. There was absolutely no reason I couldn't have bought that right from the start, except that like the clueless newb I was, I was convinced somehow I wanted something that "looked like a cigarette." I didn't know how the performance of a little battery is ridiculously lame compared to a bigger battery. And I wasn't alone in that ignorance. Unfortunately, there was no one there to talk me out of the stupidity. I would have listened and I would have been grateful. At least I didn't fall for the automatic batteries.

21 months after I upgraded, I was still using that BB exclusively, right up until a couple weeks ago when I decided to splurge and get a LavaTube. But $105/21 = $5 a month + maybe another $1/mo. for batteries and I'll have that BB for years to come. OTOH, the 510 costs me about $110 for 2.5 months, or $44/mo. for a less capable system that I never use and, in fact most of which I can't use. Tell me that wasn't a waste of money.

I'm sure that the odd vaper keeps using something like the volt for years. It's the exception that proves the rule. I'd love to see a poll of how many people continued to use their analog lookalikes after the first 6 months or so. I'll guarantee you that the vast majority upgraded and it wasn't because they just felt like it.

No newbie is going to come to you and say they want the longest battery life or the most options available. They don't know enough about what they're talking about even to know those are questions to be asked. If you honestly told people the vast difference in performance between a 180mah battery and a 900mah battery and they choose the 180mah battery, then you had the dumbest customers on the planet, and I doubt that. More likely, you sold them what they thought they wanted. That's what salespeople do. No successful salesperson sells people what they need. They sell them what they want. I was in the insurance sale biz for years. All the guys who got rich sold what people wanted. The ones who attempted to sell what was really the best insurance for the customer failed. Those people knew as much about insurance as a newbie knows about e-cigs. Like a newb, they didn't, in fact they wouldn't, buy what was the best for them. They bought what they, in their ignorance, thought they wanted; and who are we to argue. You could walk away with a signed application, or a warm, fuzzy feeling from educating them. You can't pay the rent with warm, fuzzy feelings.

The 510 didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth either. It worked just as well as the Volt, cost half as much and didn't try to hook me on pre-filled cartridges. But, in hindsight, like all of the analog mimics, it was a poor performer. A 180 or 230mah battery is what it is. It's chemistry and physics and I don't care what kind of pretty tube you put it in.

Was it better than nothing. Yes. But so what? Nothing wasn't my only other option.

If a PV costs $100 and the chance that you will upgrade within the first year, for any reason related to performance, is better than 50%, it's a waste. End of story. You can sugarcoat it and rationalize it all you want. Just because a clueless newbie "chose" it doesn't make it any less of a waste or any better an e-cig. Kids choose Happy Meals and Newbies choose Blu every single day. All that proves is that kids know no more about nutrition than newbs know about PV's.

I'm not in the sales business anymore. Today I operate on warm, fuzzy feelings. If I can talk someone out of a mediocre vaping experience, a waste of money and the possibility of giving up vaping entirely due to an inferior class of product, I'm going to do it. They can say I'm arrogant, or presumptuous, or a know-it-all. But they'll never be able to say I didn't warn them.

I guess the difference is that I didn't consider myself a salesman. I didn't work on commission. I worked there because I was passionate about ecigs and the job allowed me to work around my film production jobs. I considered myself a customer service person.

When someone came in about ecigs I always asked them their smoking background, what they wanted the ecig to do for them, and what their lifestyle was like in general, ie did they travel alot. I would explain how the battery life worked, let them know what options were available on the market and give suggestions as to what type of ecig would fit their needs/wants the best. As I stated in another thread, I would refer customers to other vendors if I didn't feel that what we had available would be a good fit for them.

The advantage of being face to face is that the customer gets to try different things and feel how each one is different. Even when we got the Egos in, I still had most of my customers choose the slim ecig. Granted, most of my customer base was older. Some had arthritis and the fewer little pieces and parts they had to deal with, the easier it was for them.

All I'm saying is that the Volt is a really good little ecig unit. Would I use it all day every day? Probably not, but then again, I was a 2 1/2-3PAD smoker. Do I think a 1/2 - 1PAD smoker could be happy with it? Yes

Most people will upgrade especially if they hang out on here lol. I had a lot of customers still using their 4081s 2 years later and being perfectly happy with them. Not everyone needs a battery that lasts 2 days. Not everyone wants a PV that takes 2 hands to hold lol. Things are a bit different now then when I first started where everything had to be tweaked. If I wasn't patient, I'd have given up.

Good example is my son's roommate. I got my son started vaping on an Ego setup with Stardusts. I let his rm try that setup, a couple of my mods with different carto options and the Volt. He chose the Volt. He's not a heavy smoker and preferred the light weight and size of it over all the other choices.

PS. I'd probably suck at selling insurance lol
 

vjc4

Full Member
Mar 1, 2012
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If your heart is set on a PV that looks like a cigarette, the volt seems to have the best reputation of all of them. And you did a nice write up. Very thoughtful and detailed, especially considering your relatively short frame of reference.
But I have to ask you something.

How is imitating (complete with flashy orange light) the most demonized activity you can do in public, short of child molestation or wife beating, considered discreet? Seems to me that if you want to stealth vape, the last thing you want to do is look like you're smoking a cigarette. If you want to be treated like a drunk, act like a drunk. If you want to be treated like a smoker, act like a smoker. At the very least, you should nix the orange beacon that say's "Hey! Look at me, I'm burning tobacco here".

I don't vape a cigarette. Smokers don't ask me for a light or ask to bum a smoke. People don't accuse me of smoking in a restaurant or bar. Nobody mistakes my PV for a cigarette. In the rare case that someone asks what it is and I don't feel like educating them, I tell them my doctor prescribed it and they go away.

Just my $0.02.

i agree.i think alot of people either skeptical or knowledgable are aware of pv's at this point.who cares anyway.i like it.
 

imsoenthused

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It's a kr808 from a reliable manufacturer. It performs like a kr808 from a reliable manufacturer. Now, as far as the minis go, I personally like how the kr808 performs better than the 501, but it limits your upgrade path. As far as recommendations for a new vaper, no I wouldn't ever recommend a mini, they would be far better off buying an Ego type of some kind from the beginning. If they insisted on a mini, I would tell them my honest experience, which is that the kr808 performs better than the 501, but in 6 months, when you are upgrading away from the mini you should never have bought, the 501 stuff will probably just screw on to their upgrade with out having to fiddle with an adapter.

All just my opinion of course. Other than my general ambivalence about minis the only problem I see with the review is that telling people that a 220 mAh will last them a minimum of 3 hours is pretty rediculous. I can kill one in an hour and a half easy and have never had one last more than two hours of use. A PCC does help, but the fact that the charge time on these batteries can be shorter than the time it takes to recharge one is something that EVERY new vaper thinking about buying one should consider. You have two batteries and a PCC and you go out somewhere thinking that is going to last you all day, only to find yourself switching batteries in and out of the PCC on shorter and shorter intervals until you are staring at a blinking battery in your hand and looking down at the one you just plugged in to the PCC a few minutes ago. First time this happened to me, it sent me back to smoking cigarettes for weeks. You can never, never, NEVER, be too pessimistic about the abysmal charge time of minis. If you plan on minis lasting you all day, budget for multiple batteries and plan on carrying them all around with you, lots and lots of them.
 

Jammin

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First time vapers just want it to work, like you said. That's true. And, for a while, a decent little battery does work. How good? They don't know and they won't know for months. But in the vast majority of cases, they figure it out. You did. I did. Jammin did.

I didn't upgrade from a 510 because I felt like spending money, or I was dazzled. I upgraded because I got sick and tired of charging and buying batteries. And yes, my 510 was a waste of money. By the time I upgraded, less than 3 months after I started, I had well over $100 in it, not including consumables.

When I upgraded, about 21 months ago, I bought a Baby Bullet for about $105, including spare batteries. Was it more complicated? No. Harder to use? No. More confusing? No. There was absolutely no reason I couldn't have bought that right from the start, except that like the clueless newb I was, I was convinced somehow I wanted something that "looked like a cigarette." I didn't know how the performance of a little battery is ridiculously lame compared to a bigger battery. And I wasn't alone in that ignorance. Unfortunately, there was no one there to talk me out of the stupidity. I would have listened and I would have been grateful. At least I didn't fall for the automatic batteries.

21 months after I upgraded, I was still using that BB exclusively, right up until a couple weeks ago when I decided to splurge and get a LavaTube. But $105/21 = $5 a month + maybe another $1/mo. for batteries and I'll have that BB for years to come. OTOH, the 510 costs me about $110 for 2.5 months, or $44/mo. for a less capable system that I never use and, in fact most of which I can't use. Tell me that wasn't a waste of money.

I'm sure that the odd vaper keeps using something like the volt for years. It's the exception that proves the rule. I'd love to see a poll of how many people continued to use their analog lookalikes after the first 6 months or so. I'll guarantee you that the vast majority upgraded and it wasn't because they just felt like it.

No newbie is going to come to you and say they want the longest battery life or the most options available. They don't know enough about what they're talking about even to know those are questions to be asked. If you honestly told people the vast difference in performance between a 180mah battery and a 900mah battery and they choose the 180mah battery, then you had the dumbest customers on the planet, and I doubt that. More likely, you sold them what they thought they wanted. That's what salespeople do. No successful salesperson sells people what they need. They sell them what they want. I was in the insurance sale biz for years. All the guys who got rich sold what people wanted. The ones who attempted to sell what was really the best insurance for the customer failed. Those people knew as much about insurance as a newbie knows about e-cigs. Like a newb, they didn't, in fact they wouldn't, buy what was the best for them. They bought what they, in their ignorance, thought they wanted; and who are we to argue. You could walk away with a signed application, or a warm, fuzzy feeling from educating them. You can't pay the rent with warm, fuzzy feelings.

The 510 didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth either. It worked just as well as the Volt, cost half as much and didn't try to hook me on pre-filled cartridges. But, in hindsight, like all of the analog mimics, it was a poor performer. A 180 or 230mah battery is what it is. It's chemistry and physics and I don't care what kind of pretty tube you put it in.

Was it better than nothing. Yes. But so what? Nothing wasn't my only other option.

If a PV costs $100 and the chance that you will upgrade within the first year, for any reason related to performance, is better than 50%, it's a waste. End of story. You can sugarcoat it and rationalize it all you want. Just because a clueless newbie "chose" it doesn't make it any less of a waste or any better an e-cig. Kids choose Happy Meals and Newbies choose Blu every single day. All that proves is that kids know no more about nutrition than newbs know about PV's.

I'm not in the sales business anymore. Today I operate on warm, fuzzy feelings. If I can talk someone out of a mediocre vaping experience, a waste of money and the possibility of giving up vaping entirely due to an inferior class of product, I'm going to do it. They can say I'm arrogant, or presumptuous, or a know-it-all. But they'll never be able to say I didn't warn them.

:toast: Great post sailorman! I agree with all of it.
 

Verdant

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I was lucky enough to have found this forum before jumping right in, someone (cant recall who) in IRC recommended me a Kgo kit based on the devices I was already considering. For my $45 purchase I could not have been happier and still am with the device. If not for someone alittle pushy saying "just get this one you'll be happy with it" I would have made a costly mistake or two instead of satisfied the first go around.
 

ChinMullet

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I'd love to see a poll of how many people continued to use their analog lookalikes after the first 6 months or so.

I don't care if I'm still using my Volt six months from now. I'm just glad that I have a similar substitute for my cigarettes today. I needed something that looked and felt like a cig, to not miss my cigs during that initial quit period. I also have other devices now for home use, but my Volt is what I use at work. If I wake up tomorrow and never touch my Volt again, it was worth every penny because it helped me quit smoking and it's still incredible to me that I could do it.
 
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Darkstarncw

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Feb 22, 2012
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I like the Volt for what it is, but you can throw me in with the masses that graduated onto bigger and "better" things quite quickly. It's great as a substitute for cigarettes, but when you really start to get into vaping you just can't compare it to low resistance cartos on a 650+ mah battery. It's far cheaper to initially invest in a kGo/Riva or E-power as an entry and then use the money you saved to purchase a mod later. If you absolutely have to have a cig sized pv, Volts are great, but as 95% of vapers volunteer repeatedly, the size quickly becomes a non-issue.
 

Shiryo

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What are your project cars if I may ask?



Well the since the thread turned into a huge debate, when I clearly said the thread is aimed at people wanting a on the go or cig-look-a-like, we're safe to go off-topic...

The main project is a vip Lexus LS400 Coach Ed. and then my little fun car, Volkswagen Corrado SLC Turbo.

Turning this into the second pic.




My baby.
 

Jammin

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Well the since the thread turned into a huge debate, when I clearly said the thread is aimed at people wanting a on the go or cig-look-a-like, we're safe to go off-topic...

This doesn't appear to have gone off topic at all (except your last post LOL). This is a normal thread progression and discussion, and is incredibly ON topic. You can't create a thread and figure no one will chime in with their own thoughts and experiences on the topic in the OP.

If you think this turned into a 'huge' debate and went way off topic, you must be very new to forum discussions. LOL
 
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